[smitch124]

much ado about nothing...

[ms61853]

Working as a plumber without a license is both immoral and ILLEGAL.

I hope this guy goes to jail.

He is working legally. But we all know what Fascists you Obamatards are, when somebody makes a fool out of your messiah.

[ms61853]

I never claimed to be licensed or endagered public safety while I was in training and neither I aspired to be a consultant before I was licensed.

When has he ever claimed to be anything other than what he is? Just because he not yet eligible for licensing does not mean he is not working as a plumber.

And many degreed engineers NEVER get PE certification (especially those who work in plants) because there is simply no advantage in doing so. They are still engineers.

Without passing the plumbing license exam "Joe the fake Plumber" is as good as an underage driver without a license.

Plain bull.

[daggerkobe]

'Joe the Plumber' has no license to do his work legally

Fri, Oct 17 04:35 PM

Toledo (Ohio, US), Oct.17 (ANI): Joe Wurzelbacher, the plumber in Toledo, Ohio, who hit the headlines in America this week after stopping Senator Barack Obama to complain about taxes, has suddenly found himself facing celebrity-level scrutiny.
It now turns out that Joe is not a licensed plumber.

Thomas Joseph, the business manager of Local 50 of the United Association of Plumbers, Steamfitters and Service Mechanics, based in Toledo, said Thursday that Mr. Wurzelbacher had never held a plumber's license, which is required in Toledo and several surrounding municipalities.

According to the New York Times, he also never completed an apprenticeship and does not belong to the plumber's union, which has endorsed Obama.
On Thursday, he acknowledged that he does plumbing work even though he does not have a license.

http://in.news.yahoo.com/139/2008101...nse-to-do.html

[BadNina]

And what does that have to do with Obama's plan to "share the wealth"? Why should anyone be entitled to money I earn?

[daggerkobe]

This issue has nothing to do with Joe. Obama knocked on his door. It was Obama's answer that should be the issue.

Just five days ago, Wurzelbacher, 34, lived in anonymity in Holland, Ohio, a single father who, as he said on national television, worked all day and came home to fix dinner and help his son, 13, with his homework.

But he became the hero of conservatives and Republicans when he stopped Obama, who was campaigning on his street, and asked whether he believed in the American dream.

[BadNina]

That still has nothing to do with the answer. 84% said that they were against "sharing the wealth". Unless you can show me where Joe held a gun to Obama's head, shoved his hand up his butt and made him talk. The answer should be the issue....not the one who asked the question.

[daggerkobe]

"The premise of his complaint to Obama about taxes may also be flawed, according to tax analysts.

Contrary to what Wurzelbacher asserted and Senator McCain echoed, neither his personal taxes nor those of the business where he works are likely to rise if Obama's tax plan were to go into effect, they said."

[ms61853]

It now turns out that Joe is not a licensed plumber.

Of course, he has not been an apprentice for the required amount of time yet. He will as of next month. He can not legally be licensed at this time.

Thomas Joseph, the business manager of Local 50 of the United Association of Plumbers, Steamfitters and Service Mechanics, based in Toledo, said Thursday that Mr. Wurzelbacher had never held a plumber's license, which is required in Toledo and several surrounding municipalities.

The business he works for is not located in Toledo. The City of Toledo has no legal authority for work done outside of Toledo. And his employer is licensed.

According to the New York Times, he also never completed an apprenticeship


Because he had not been working as an apprentice for the required 5 years

and does not belong to the plumber's union, which has endorsed Obama.


Why would he need to? Ohio is not a right to work State, but employers are not forced to institute a union shop if neither they nor the employees want it

On Thursday, he acknowledged that he does plumbing work even though he does not have a license.

Legally, because he works under the supervision of a licensed plumber.

Again, what this all about is because "Joe" exposed your Messiah for what he is, an unapologetic Marxist.

[ms61853]

"The premise of his complaint to Obama about taxes may also be flawed, according to tax analysts.

Contrary to what Wurzelbacher asserted and Senator McCain echoed, neither his personal taxes nor those of the business where he works are likely to rise if Obama's tax plan were to go into effect, they said."

Did Obama answer the question, "Sir, I believe your taxes will be lowered." No he didn't. He wasn't smart enough. As the dumbass that he is, he revealed himself as the Marxist he is.

[pavyracer]

"Joe the Plumber" story stinks more than the doodoo that he was hired to clean up as an unlicensed plumber working illegally against city of Toledo requirements. He is the same as an illegal immigrant working without SS #. All the people that he fixed their plumbing can sue him for his work because he was unlicensed. His liabililty insurance will not cover him because he was illegally performing plumbing services in violation of city of Toledo law.

As far as the tax issue he is a coward for not paying his taxes because he doesn't support the war of terrorism which requires every american citizen to share their tax debts to fund the war. Even those opposing the war pay their taxes to fund it. "Joe the Plumber" turned from a neocon hero to neocon goat overnight.

[ryanXL977]

That still has nothing to do with the answer. 84% said that they were against "sharing the wealth". Unless you can show me where Joe held a gun to Obama's head, shoved his hand up his butt and made him talk. The answer should be the issue....not the one who asked the question.

i think your money is safe. do people not realize that with wars, rising prices , and the lowered dollar, you are already sharing more of your "welath" than you ever will.

[BadNina]

"The premise of his complaint to Obama about taxes may also be flawed, according to tax analysts.

Contrary to what Wurzelbacher asserted and Senator McCain echoed, neither his personal taxes nor those of the business where he works are likely to rise if Obama's tax plan were to go into effect, they said."

that still does not address the problem which is the answer. That if Joe were to buy any business and put himself in a position to earn 250k a year, he would then have a tax leveled at him for his achievement. His progess would not be rewarded, it would be punished.

Now tell me how many people who earn less than 250k hire people with nice benefits?

[ryanXL977]

rich have gotten a free ride on the backs of the poor for too long
its time to even it out
got no problem with it

[picantel]

that still does not address the problem which is the answer. That if Joe were to buy any business and put himself in a position to earn 250k a year, he would then have a tax leveled at him for his achievement. His progess would not be rewarded, it would be punished.

Now tell me how many people who earn less than 250k hire people with nice benefits?

Geez Nina. You pay an extra 3% on the amount you make OVER 250k. If you make 280k then you pay an extra 3% on the 30k not the 280k.

[ms61853]

Joe the Plumber" story stinks more than the doodoo that he was hired to clean up as an unlicensed plumber working illegally against city of Toledo requirements.

You keep saying this, but do you have any evidence that he worked illegally? I guess it's possible that the city of Toledo makes it illegal for an unlicensed plumber to do plumbing work even under the supervision of a licensed plumber, but I doubt it. How would a plumber ever be able to become licensed if he's not getting experience doing plumbing work?

And their Office was not even located in Toledo. Toledo has no authority over anything outside the City.

[BadNina]

rich have gotten a free ride on the backs of the poor for too long
its time to even it out
got no problem with it

That first statement is not categorically true. I know a lot of people who earn more than that a year. They get up every day and work their asses off. Some don't even have a high school education. Some worked one and two jobs to put themselves through school to be able to secure jobs that pay more. None of them "rode the back of the poor". They earned every penny they received. To have the government say they know better how to spread out your wealth is a load of bull. They can't even manage to keep on eye on banks, Freddie, Fanny and Wall Street.

[pavyracer]

Geez Nina. You pay an extra 3% on the amount you make OVER 250k. If you make 280k then you pay an extra 3% on the 30k not the 280k.

Exactly picantel. That means if he makes 280k through his business he will pay $900 more in taxes per year. So instead of a tax bill of $100,080 at 36% (which is McCain's plan) he will pay $100,980 in taxes. These $900 in taxes can be used to pay for bulletproof vests for our soldiers fignting the war in Iraq and Afghanistan.

McCain in not supporting the war on terrorism by not adequately funding our troops.

[ryanXL977]

That first statement is not categorically true. I know a lot of people who earn more than that a year. They get up every day and work their asses off. Some don't even have a high school education. Some worked one and two jobs to put themselves through school to be able to secure jobs that pay more. None of them "rode the back of the poor". They earned every penny they received. To have the government say they know better how to spread out your wealth is a load of bull. They can't even manage to keep on eye on banks, Freddie, Fanny and Wall Street.

riding on the backs of the poor is more of a metaphor than literal. this country uses the poor for its wars, for its shitty jobs, and when it pays out, the benefits always seem to trickle up. if you make 250k, you should be more than happy to pay an extra 7500 a yr in taxes. big deal

[BadNina]

It is a big deal. Basic principal tells you that you add an additional tax to a business that price will be reflected as either a price increase or the cut of an employee. Most people I know do give to charities or help people in need out. They don't need the government to tell them. The government cannot control itself now. They sat on their collective butts during the whole Fanny/Freddie fiasco. Putting the Treasury Sec. over this bailout is the same as asking an arsonist to put out a fire. Look back in history at the Boston Tea Party. The rebelious Americans dumped all that tea over a 3% increase in tax. I'm thinking that's a pretty good idea

[FadeThePublic]

ms61583 is a member of the ku klux klan

He's angry and pissed off that Obama will be our next president and there is nothing he can do about

He's spends more time hating on Obama and less time explaining why 4 more years of the same Bush policies are going to help this country

go put back on your kkk gear you fukn hick

[picantel]

It is a big deal. Basic principal tells you that you add an additional tax to a business that price will be reflected as either a price increase or the cut of an employee. Most people I know do give to charities or help people in need out. They don't need the government to tell them. The government cannot control itself now. They sat on their collective butts during the whole Fanny/Freddie fiasco. Putting the Treasury Sec. over this bailout is the same as asking an arsonist to put out a fire. Look back in history at the Boston Tea Party. The rebelious Americans dumped all that tea over a 3% increase in tax. I'm thinking that's a pretty good idea

Hmm and what party was in charge? Oh yah the republicans. Bush has a disapproval rating of 73%- the highest of any president in history. The world hates us. Our economy is in shambles. Gas is still outrageous. Bush has effectively destroyed the US and blown apart our rights.

[picantel]

You will be happy to know after extensive research I have found MS's degree. You may look it up in my avatar.

[ms61853]

ms61583 is a member of the ku klux klan

He's angry and pissed off that Obama will be our next president and there is nothing he can do about

He's spends more time hating on Obama and less time explaining why 4 more years of the same Bush policies are going to help this country

go put back on your kkk gear you fukn hick

[BadNina]

Hmm and what party was in charge? Oh yah the republicans. Bush has a disapproval rating of 73%- the highest of any president in history. The world hates us. Our economy is in shambles. Gas is still outrageous. Bush has effectively destroyed the US and blown apart our rights.

My remarks were in regards to the government as a whole. The whole lot of them need to be replaced. Some could point to the changes under the Democratic Congress the past two years. I am blaming all of them. There is not one example of any society that taxed its way into prosperity.

[pavyracer]

My remarks were in regards to the government as a whole. The whole lot of them need to be replaced. Some could point to the changes under the Democratic Congress the past two years. I am blaming all of them. There is not one example of any society that taxed its way into prosperity.

Taxes are not a problem if you can balance the budget. Many countries balance their budgets with very small taxes, 10-15%.

The problem with our country is that it is too big and has many people to please. Spending trillions on aimless wars and developing weaponry that will never be used instead of investing on developing the infastructure and the quality of life of the citizens is what bankrupts the country.

[daggerkobe]

Legally, because he works under the supervision of a licensed plumber.

"Mr. Wurzelbacher said he works under Al Newell’s license, but according to Ohio building regulations, he must maintain his own license to do plumbing work."

You're either the biggest liar of them all or just an ignorant f\*\*k. My guess is both.

[daggerkobe]

It now turns out that Joe is not a licensed plumber.

Of course, he has not been an apprentice for the required amount of time yet. He will as of next month. He can not legally be licensed at this time.

Thomas Joseph, the business manager of Local 50 of the United Association of Plumbers, Steamfitters and Service Mechanics, based in Toledo, said Thursday that Mr. Wurzelbacher had never held a plumber's license, which is required in Toledo and several surrounding municipalities.

The business he works for is not located in Toledo. The City of Toledo has no legal authority for work done outside of Toledo. And his employer is licensed.

According to the New York Times, he also never completed an apprenticeship


Because he had not been working as an apprentice for the required 5 years

and does not belong to the plumber's union, which has endorsed Obama.


Why would he need to? Ohio is not a right to work State, but employers are not forced to institute a union shop if neither they nor the employees want it

On Thursday, he acknowledged that he does plumbing work even though he does not have a license.

Legally, because he works under the supervision of a licensed plumber.

Again, what this all about is because "Joe" exposed your Messiah for what he is, an unapologetic Marxist.

What part of he can not do ANY plumbing work in the state of Ohio without his OWN license do you not comprehend??????

What a STUPID f\*\*k!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ms61853]

What part of he can not do any plumbing work if the state of Ohio without his OWN license do you not comprehend??????

The part where he is working with a licensed plumber

What a STUPID f\*\*k!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes you are.

[pavyracer]

What part of he can not do any plumbing work if the state of Ohio without his OWN license do you not comprehend??????

What a STUPID f\*\*k!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I guarantee you ms61853 hires illegal immegrants to fix his plumbing, his lights and paint his house. Isn't that what all Republicans do?

[ryanXL977]

It is a big deal. Basic principal tells you that you add an additional tax to a business that price will be reflected as either a price increase or the cut of an employee. Most people I know do give to charities or help people in need out. They don't need the government to tell them. The government cannot control itself now. They sat on their collective butts during the whole Fanny/Freddie fiasco. Putting the Treasury Sec. over this bailout is the same as asking an arsonist to put out a fire. Look back in history at the Boston Tea Party. The rebelious Americans dumped all that tea over a 3% increase in tax. I'm thinking that's a pretty good idea

not to be a jerk to you, but you have no clue what you are talking about. clinton raised taxes, the economy gained 22 million jobs and a surplus
bush cut them, we lost jobs and have a 10 trillion dollar debt

stop listening to people lie to you and use your eyes

[ms61853]

I guarantee you ms61853 hires illegal immegrants to fix his plumbing, his lights and paint his house. Isn't that what all Republicans do?

The fact is that "Joe's" boss is licensed in Lucas County, which makes it perfectly acceptable for Joe to work as his apprentice. The people falsely reporting that his employer is not licensed are going dangerously into "getting sued" territory:



Across the blogosphere, we have news that Joe the Plumber, single father, American working guy, aspiring business owner, is about to be shut down and put out of work, to the great glee of Obama supporters.

-snip-

1. HotAir reports that "Toledo Moves to Shut Down Joe the Plumber".

2. NBC affiliate reports that even Joe's boss is not licensed: "If the boss of a company has valid documentation employees are covered. However, NBC-24 learned neither Joe, nor his boss Al Newell, are authorized to do work in Lucas County."

3. MSNBC repeats what I'll shortly show you is incorrect, that boss Newell is not licensed: "And the county Wurzelbacher and Newell live in, Lucas County, requires plumbers to have licenses, but neither is licensed there, said Cheryl Schimming of Lucas County Building Regulations, which handles plumber licenses in parts of the county outside Toledo."

And so on. Now let me tell you that many news outlets are getting the story right, that Joe's boss, Mr. Newell (in business since 1974, God bless you sir, I'm sure you could never have imagined all this happening to you in America), is in fact licensed in Lucas County. How do I know? Because the State of Ohio's computers told me so, and they would tell the media the same if they looked…like I did.

Mr. Newell is licensed. He is licensed in Lucas County. His license number starts with the digits 329 and then has two more digits. I don't see any need to post more identifying information about innocent people. Search here, plug in the right paramaters, and you can download the list of all licensed plumbers in Lucas County, Ohio. It is not difficult, though you have to provide information about yourself as the requester of the information.

So I got this list of licensees.

Mr. Newell is on that list. And if I read the rules of apprenticeship correctly (I am not an Ohio attorney, and yes I could be reading it wrong), the reported date of November 2003 as the date of filing of Joe's apprenticeship papers seems to be just fine. According to this,

-snip-

So here's the point. Many news outlets have gotten it correct, but some have not and that needs to be corrected. Mr. Newell is licensed, and Joe the Plumber is just short of his five years before he can apply for licensure, but as supervised by Newell, he's o.k..

You can look at screen captures of the entire list of Lucas County licensed plumbers here (part 1) and here (part 2).

[daggerkobe]

that still does not address the problem which is the answer. That if Joe were to buy any business and put himself in a position to earn 250k a year, he would then have a tax leveled at him for his achievement. His progess would not be rewarded, it would be punished.

Now tell me how many people who earn less than 250k hire people with nice benefits?

So everytime some Joe Schmoe confronts him on the street and starts throwing accusations at him, he should stand there and explain everything to them????

Obama obviously realized this guy had ulterior motives and tried to be as nice as possible without having security remove him. Which was a wise move since his intention was nothing more than to become famous and have his 15 minutes. Too bad for him he'll be infamous when his 15 min is up.

I've worked with handful of mom & pop companies that made less than $250k but rewarded its employees handsomely.

Funny how you neocons whine about this but not Wal-Mart, which pays its employees slave wages and passes them off to the tax payers in the tune of $100 MILLION PER STATE in the form of welfare, food stamps, housing, education, etc. All the while the Waltons regularly rank in the top 10 richest billionaires list.

[daggerkobe]

The part where he is working with a licensed plumber





Yes you are.

Are you BLIND or STUPID?

"Mr. Wurzelbacher said he works under Al Newell’s license, but according to Ohio building regulations, he must maintain his own license to do plumbing work."

Talk about an idiot ignoring FACTS so his fantasy world doesn't come crumbling down on his pointed little racist head.

[ms61853]

Are you BLIND or STUPID?

"Mr. Wurzelbacher said he works under Al Newell’s license, but according to Ohio building regulations, he must maintain his own license to do plumbing work."

Talk about an idiot ignoring FACTS so his fantasy world doesn't come crumbling down on his pointed little racist head.

That statement is incorrect. As long as he works under as an apprentice under the supervision of a licensed plumber, he is working legitimately.

In fact, that statement doesn't even make any sense. What's an apprentice supposed to? Watch somebody do plumbing for five years until such time they can do the work themselves?