1. #1
    ritehook
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    Any Real Differences Between Obama and McCain? Nah . . .

    Well, there is one big diff.

    One has a white face, the other black. And that fact will cost Obama a lot of votes. Like one old guy I know. Lifelong Democrat, opposes the Iraq War.

    But won't vote for Obama because - you know. Yeah, he is originally from the South.

    South Dakota.

    But in today's horror movie economy, that won't matter enough. Even the "white working class" folks who voted Hillary are switching to Obama.

    He's got most of the "battleground" states now, with McCain getting most (not all) of the South, and a handful of midwest and mountain states

    Those posters who months ago predicted an Obama landslide can take their bows - and soon any money they wagered on such an outcome at the exchanges.

    ARE THERE ANY FUNDAMENTAL POLICY DIFFERENCES BETWEEN MCCAIN AND OBAMA?

    Ya gotta be kiddin'. We have in the US a one party system with two "wings." Nothing much more.

    THE ECONOMY: Both supported the bailout.

    McCain blew this one royally. With so many Americans hating it, and with viable alternatives out there, he should have come out against. But the Washington insider with heavy lobbyist ties just couldn't pull that trigger. Call him Loser.

    IRAQ Big diff here you think?

    No. While O will have combat troops out (he says) in about 18 months, McCain will leave them there longer.

    But nowhere, no how does Obama propose to clear all US forces out of Iraq, including the malevolent mercernaries (who outnumber the combat troops).

    And even many of the combat soldiers won't be far away, sitting in places like Kuwait.

    Both parties agree that the US needs an unsinkable battleship in the region. It's name is Iraq. President Obama will not change that.

  2. #2
    ritehook
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    Let's see.

    AFGHANISTAN?

    Not a dime's worth of difference. (A real dime, not a bettor's dime)

    FREE TRADE (SO-CALLED)?

    Nope. John loves NAFTA. Obama says it needs revision.

    Here's the kind of "revision" Barack will do: change a few paragraphs, the kind of stuff that need updating anyway. And tell the peasants it's now "a lot fairer."

    RUSSIA?

    Unfortunately, No again.

    Both advocate policies that bring the US very close to military confrontations with Russia. Both parrot the neocon line that Russia made an unprovoked attack on "democratic" Geogia.

    So far, not worth the drive to the polling places

  3. #3
    durito
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    Mostly I agree, the two parties both suck, but if you really think the world wouldn't be a dramatically different place today had GWB not stolen the election in 2000 I don't know what to tell you.

    So, yes there is a difference.

  4. #4
    pavyracer
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    Biggest Difference: John McCain is not a US citizen

    McCain in NOT a US Citizen

    McCAin was not born in Coco Solo but he was born in Colon Panama and his parents were residing there at the time. This does not make him a natural born citizen as required by Presidencial clause and 1st sentence of 14th amendment. There was a court case about 6 months ago regarding a case between a Fred Hollander v. John McCain and the RNC in U.S. District Court in New Hampshire under case 1:08-CV-00099.

    The case was challenging John McCain right to run for President because he was not a natural born citizen. Fred Hollander did not win the case because the Court ruled that he did not have standing to bring the lawsuit. However, there were several rulings that came of the court decision. One was that McCain was a native born citizen of Panama and a naturalized citizen of the United States.

    Another was that due to many court decision the Canal Zone was never sovereign territory of the United States. If you read the actual Hays-Banau Varilla treaty under sections two and three you will see why the ruling in the Courts was that the United States was never sovereign in the Canal Zone and that Panama City and Colon were not part of the Treaty grant which by the way is known as the treaty that Panama never signed. Part of the evidence was a certified birth certificate which Fred got from the President of the Panama Railroad showing that McCain was born at the Colon Hospital and part of the evidence is a statement of birth in Spanish and the certification which consists of 4 pages. The Conclusion of the case is on another 6 pages and all this listed under document number 20. The very important section of decision is under section 9.The documents can be secured from a government website at https://ecf.nhd.uscourts.gov.

    If you do not have a pacer number you need to go to a different government website at Https://pacer/psc.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/psclogin.pl before going to first website. Open up document 20 for viewing first. Then download the two separate files. One file is the certified birth certificate from Panama and the second file is the results of the Court decision that I was speaking of. You can also secure all this information at http://johnmccain.dominates.us.

    Some of the documents have been cleared up for better reading and there is a copy of McCain live birth that was listed at the Panama Canal Commission and is dated March 1980 and was also secured be the President of the Panama Railroad and is a certified copy of live birth secured by either McCain or the Navy or a legal representative for his retirement 1 Apr 1981. Both certificates show McCain born in Colon Panama. Go to both websites and secure the information. Then you know that I am speaking the total truth.

  5. #5
    element1286
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    I agree with you ritehook for the most part.

  6. #6
    ritehook
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    There is, tho, one significant difference: personality and temperament.

    John is well-known as the hottest temper in Washington.

    And anyone can tell by Barack's calm demeanor that he does not made angry or hasty decisions. Willl listen to different points of view.

    That's important.

    And then there is the poisonous presence of the still flourishing Neocon contingent.

    Once the Guiliani campaign folded its tent, the Neocon bottom feeders flocked to John. They control his campaign, top to bottom.

    One prominent Neo is the guy who introduced him to the warlike President of Georgia. A guy who had been paid a huge retainer by Georgia to act as their US lobbyist.

    Thre are a few Neo-libs in the Obama campaign. He does, after all, toe the "Israel Uber Alles" line. Tho not nearly as many as in the McCain campaign.

    But the likely Sec of State in the upcoming Obama Admin wil be Dennis Ross. He's not a known Neo, and was Clinton's troubleshooter in the MidEast.

    But he's very pro-Israel - the old ethnic connection again raising its troublesome head.

    Sure, styleistically, Obama is a big improvement over Bush. But then, so would Mickey Mouse be. Or the Loch Ness Montster. Or Paris Hilton.

    Obama will not stop what looks now like hyper-inflation coming to America. It's how we'll "pay" for the bailout. He won't end the useless and damaging foreign wars. He will continue to bow down before Tel Aviv (or as he wishes it, Jerusalem).

    Won't catch me near a polling place come Nov 4. But it does all make an exciting halftime show.

  7. #7
    durito
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    Obama will not stop what looks now like hyper-inflation coming to America
    What's your basis for this?

    I see a far greater chance for a deflationary environment (which can be worse than high inflation)

  8. #8
    ritehook
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    Quote Originally Posted by durito View Post
    What's your basis for this?

    I see a far greater chance for a deflationary environment (which can be worse than high inflation)
    The basis for deflation is falling demand, accompanied (usually) by high interest rates (that encourage expansion of goods production).

    We have some falling demand now,and have had for months. It has not rolled back prices, except on oil and commodiites.
    The supermarket prices are holding their own or rising.

    The current fiat expansion of credit will mean more money chasing the same, or fewer, goods (Fewer because businesses cut expansion plans months ago)

    Buffett is not the only biz wiz to predict an inflationary cycle ahead. Warren thinks there will be "some" inflation. Others think it will be severe.

    Did you know that Ben Bernanke, chairman of the Fed,is an expert on the Great Depression?

    He said that the big mistake the central bank made then was in not expanding credit, even at the cost of signifcant inflation. He wrote a book on the topic (now rapidly picking up sales).

    He's going to now practice what he preaches. Fixed incomes or investments are going to get ripped. IMHO.

  9. #9
    durito
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    Well the fed may be increasing credit, overall credit is decreasing.

    The unwinding of the credit bubble and all the leverage associated with it is deflationary by nature. Look at Japan.

    I'm no expert on the subject, or even knowledgeable beyond the basics, but the analysts I read are far more concerned about deflation. And these are people that predicted this crisis long ago.


    You should vote for Obama even if you have to hold your nose to do so. You cannot tell me that the world would not be vastly different if Al Gore had been President for the last 8 years.

  10. #10
    ms61853
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    Quote Originally Posted by durito View Post
    You cannot tell me that the world would not be vastly different if Al Gore had been President for the last 8 years.
    We'd be inviting Osama bin Laden to State dinners to negotiate why he shouldn't attack us any more?

  11. #11
    pavyracer
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    Quote Originally Posted by ms61853 View Post
    We'd be inviting Osama bin Laden to State dinners to negotiate why he shouldn't attack us any more?
    Make sure you serve barbecue pulled pork.

  12. #12
    Mudcat
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    There are differences between the candidates but the extremism is insane. People act like their candidate is a savior while the opponent would mark the end of civilization.

    So much air-headedness out there.

    They are both okay guys who love their families and country. IMO McCain has sacrificed some decency trying to win the election at all cost rather than doing what's best for the country, but whatever. He's a politician.

    Whoever wins is only going to have so much control over what happens. They are both at the mercy of world markets. I would prefer the Repubs be out of the Oval Office but I don't feel like the world will stop spinning if they return.

    We have an election going on up here and you'd barely notice. People have their preferences but everyone understands that it is not a life or death difference.

    But the American population perpetually seems like its been up for 2 weeks straight on crystal meth. Everyone is tweaking.

    I seriously don't think America has recovered from 9/11. Everyone got extremely freaked out and it never settled down.

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  13. #13
    durito
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    How much attention does the US election get in Canada?

    It's a pretty big deal down here. Like front page of the paper most every day for the past 6 months.

  14. #14
    pico
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    if you turn back time and al gore became the prez in 2000, i bet everyone will make fun of him because no one likes him for 4 years, and we end up electing bush in 2004. i beleive things happen for a reason. the ruling class decided it is time for saddam to die, election is just a motion of process for publicity.

  15. #15
    daggerkobe
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    If Gore weren't robbed....

    9/11.... wouldn't have happened
    Oil prices qudrupling.... wouldn't have happened
    Iraq..... wouldn't have been invaded
    Largest national deficit.... wouldn't have happened
    UIGEA.... would've been vetoed
    Pinnacle.... would still have it in the US
    Neteller.... would still have it in the US
    2 Recessions.... wouldn't have happened
    10,000 US Americans dying..... wouldn't have happened


    List goes on and on.

  16. #16
    Mudcat
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    Quote Originally Posted by durito View Post
    How much attention does the US election get in Canada?

    It's a pretty big deal down here. Like front page of the paper most every day for the past 6 months.

    It gets lots. I mean, obviously we get a lot of US media directly - so we get bombarded with that.

    Canadian papers and such can't help but react and report. It is all so sensational. They get caught up in the frenzy just like me. But we do have our own election so that is a bigger story these days.

    The difference in tone surrounding the elections is staggering. Only by comparison have I come to realize just how pleasantly sane Canadians are as a people.

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  17. #17
    durito
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    Quote Originally Posted by daggerkobe View Post
    If Gore weren't robbed....

    9/11.... wouldn't have happened you can't be serious
    Oil prices qudrupling.... wouldn't have happened maybe not when, but these prices are eventually going much higher regardless
    Iraq..... wouldn't have been invaded correct
    Largest national deficit.... wouldn't have happened correct
    UIGEA.... would've been vetoed doubtful
    Pinnacle.... would still have it in the US
    Neteller.... would still have it in the US
    2 Recessions.... wouldn't have happened recessions are a normal and necessary part of the business cycle -- both would have happened
    10,000 US Americans dying..... wouldn't have happened correct
    Largest national deficit..... wouldn't have happened see above

    List goes on and on.

    come on, be realistic here.

  18. #18
    Willie Bee
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mudcat View Post
    It gets lots. I mean, obviously we get a lot of US media directly - so we get bombarded with that.

    Canadian papers and such can't help but react and report. It is all so sensational. They get caught up in the frenzy just like me. But we do have our own election so that is a bigger story these days.

    The difference in tone surrounding the elections is staggering. Only by comparison have I come to realize just how pleasantly sane Canadians are as a people.
    'Sane' is pushing it, don't you think Mud? I mean, I've met a bunch of the folks on Pender Island and those folks are crazy as a loon

    Of course, I do wish I could figure out a way to retire in Banff or Jasper, somewhere around those parts. Told the wife that and she said I'm on my own with those plans, to which I replied, "I know" and smiled.

  19. #19
    BadNina
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    Don't you worry about that any, Dad. I have a nice home...uh place picked out for you.

  20. #20
    Mudcat
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    Quote Originally Posted by Willie Bee View Post
    'Sane' is pushing it, don't you think Mud? I mean, I've met a bunch of the folks on Pender Island and those folks are crazy as a loon

    Of course, I do wish I could figure out a way to retire in Banff or Jasper, somewhere around those parts. Told the wife that and she said I'm on my own with those plans, to which I replied, "I know" and smiled.


    You're right. Just as I shouldn't stereotype Americans as frothing-at-the-mouth extremists, I shouldn't try to suggest all Canadians are sane.

    There are plenty of intelligent moderate Americans - and there are definitely some Canadian Fruit Loops (some of whom I may or may not have had Thanksgiving dinner with yesterday).

    On the whole, we do seem better equipped to keep our heads about us re our election, however that should not be taken as proof we are a nation free of bedbugs.

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  21. #21
    Willie Bee
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mudcat View Post
    There are plenty of intelligent moderate Americans - and there are definitely some Canadian Fruit Loops (some of whom I may or may not have had Thanksgiving dinner with yesterday).
    Just goes to show that families are the same on both sides of the border!

  22. #22
    ms61853
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    Quote Originally Posted by daggerkobe View Post
    If Gore weren't robbed....

    9/11.... wouldn't have happened
    LOL

    Even your political allies know you're a twoofer kook, as shown below.

  23. #23
    daggerkobe
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    I guess these people are KOOKs too....


    "They don't have any excuse because the information was in their lap, and they didn't do anything to prevent it."
    — Senator Richard Shelby, then ranking Republican on the Senate Intelligence Committee; member of the joint intelligence committee that investigated 9/11

    "I don't believe any longer that it's a matter of connecting the dots. I think they had a veritable blueprint, and we want to know why they didn't act on it."
    — Senator Arlen Specter, a Republican member of the joint intelligence committee that investigated 9/11

    "Should we have known? Yes, we should have. Could we have known? Yes, I believe we could have because of the hard targets [CIA operatives were tracking]."
    — Representative Porter Goss, Chairman of the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence; Republican co-chairman of the joint intelligence committee that investigated 9/11

    "As of September 10th, each of us knew everything we needed to know to tell us there was a possibility of what happened on September 11th."
    — Assistant Attorney General Michael Chertoff (described by the Associated Press as "the Bush administration's top anti-terrorism prosecutor")

    "I cannot say for sure that there wasn't a possibility we could have come across some lead that would have led us to the hijackers."
    — FBI Director Robert Mueller

    "Had one human being or a common group of human beings sat down with all that information, we could have gotten to the hijackers before they flew those four airplanes either into the World Trade Center, the Pentagon or the ground of Pennsylvania."
    — Senator Bob Graham, then Chairman of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence; Democratic co-chairman of the joint intelligence panel that investigated 9/11


    No, wait, YOU'RE the KOOK.

  24. #24
    durito
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    You are an embarrassment to the rest of us democratic voters and you don't help our cause.

    Please switch sides.

  25. #25
    daggerkobe
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    This is exactly what I mean about banning screennames of idiots that claim they will never ever post here again. They just comeback in a week and act like it never happened cause no one cared enough to give a damn.

  26. #26
    reno cool
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    I believe your fundamentally right hook.

    There's some differences but its hard to gauge where they will lead.
    Look at the damage Clinton adm did. They tried to get universal health care and ended up with welfare reform.

    Moving NATO eastward, Iraqi sanctions, Kosovo. I mean getting a blow job was by far the best thing he accomplished. Certainly didn't expect a Dem pres to move the country to the right. But thats exactly what happened.

    I hope Obama's election will lead to positive change. Many people getting excited and involved could possibly move the political climate in a positive direction. I believe thats the only way change can happen short of violent revolution.

  27. #27
    ms61853
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    Quote Originally Posted by daggerkobe View Post
    I guess these people are KOOKs too....


    "They don't have any excuse because the information was in their lap, and they didn't do anything to prevent it."
    Senator Richard Shelby, then ranking Republican on the Senate Intelligence Committee; member of the joint intelligence committee that investigated 9/11

    "I don't believe any longer that it's a matter of connecting the dots. I think they had a veritable blueprint, and we want to know why they didn't act on it."
    Senator Arlen Specter, a Republican member of the joint intelligence committee that investigated 9/11

    "Should we have known? Yes, we should have. Could we have known? Yes, I believe we could have because of the hard targets [CIA operatives were tracking]."
    Representative Porter Goss, Chairman of the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence; Republican co-chairman of the joint intelligence committee that investigated 9/11

    "As of September 10th, each of us knew everything we needed to know to tell us there was a possibility of what happened on September 11th."
    Assistant Attorney General Michael Chertoff (described by the Associated Press as "the Bush administration's top anti-terrorism prosecutor")

    "I cannot say for sure that there wasn't a possibility we could have come across some lead that would have led us to the hijackers."
    FBI Director Robert Mueller

    "Had one human being or a common group of human beings sat down with all that information, we could have gotten to the hijackers before they flew those four airplanes either into the World Trade Center, the Pentagon or the ground of Pennsylvania."
    Senator Bob Graham, then Chairman of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence; Democratic co-chairman of the joint intelligence panel that investigated 9/11


    No, wait, YOU'RE the KOOK.
    Uh huh. Instead of taking out of context quotes, why don't you look at the actual conclusions of the 911 Commission.

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