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Ichiro is a better hitter than Derek Jeter hands down.
He would have more hits than Jeter if he played in the majors the amount of time Jeter has. Every aspect of the game, Ichiro is better than Jeter. Yet not many people here Ichiro's name. Why? Because he is in Seattle.
Exactly.Originally Posted by dynamite140
Ichiro is a better hitter than Derek Jeter hands down
He would have more hits than Jeter if he played in the majors the amount of time Jeter has. Every aspect of the game, Ichiro is better than Jeter. Yet not many people here Ichiro's name. Why? Because he is in Seattle.
Ichiro = underrated ( at least in America)
Jeter = overrated
How many bill boards have you seen Ichiro on? His team sucks but not because of him. Baseball is a team sport and when your team spends 200 million dollars on the team it's a lot easier to be a "winner". Begruding a guy like Ichiro for being on a losing team is like brown beating the Pitcher who threw a complete game but gave up 1 run and lost 1-0. Meanwhile a pitcher could give up 5 runs and get the win because his team pounded the other teams pitcher. Wins isn't a good way to measure individual players.
Ichiro is better at the plate
Better defensively ( He's a true gold glove stud in the field, Jeter is a flat footed joke)
Better arm Ichiro has a cannon
Ichiro is one of the best base stealers in the league year in and year out
Ichiro brings new markets and new people to the ball park
Jeter will make the hall of fame. The point is look at all the hype he gets in comparison to guys like Ichiro, Tejada, Mike Young etc. How many casual fans even know who Mike Young is? Jeter is hyped out of the statosphere.
Last edited by C-Gold; 04-30-11 at 06:03 PM.
Yea i can't believe people even name Jeter to be the best player in baseball even for 1 year. Not once was he close. Every year ARod has a better year than Jeter. The most home runs he hit in 1 year was 24 home runs and most RBI was 102 RB. Arod average 129 RBI per year. If you switch Jeter and Arod in their lineup, AROD will still have more RBI's than that fraud JETER
All Jeter has is decent batting average and thats its. He is consistent every year, i agree. But the problem is its all DAMN SINGLES
I cannot even believe people say Jeter is dangerous at bat. What is he going to do? Hit one to the opposite way for a singlethats what.
Last edited by dynamite140; 04-30-11 at 06:03 PM.
You can't use more at bats as an argument. That's why they have batting averages. And 14 consecutive years of .290 or better won't be beat by many people. He's had 11 .300+ seasons in his career.
Jeter's defensive ability is dwindling with age. But don't confuse "undeserved gold gloves" with "lack of defensive ability." He may not have deserved all those gold gloves but that doesn't mean he wasn't a gifted defensive shortstop for the better part of his career. Because he was.
You keep bringing up how lucky Jeter was to be surrounded by such a gifted team. He did benefit many years, that's true. But lets not act like the Yankees were always the powerhouse they've been in recent years. In fact, the Yankees had missed the playoffs in 13 of the 14 prior seasons before Jeter got there. And while payrolls are drastically different these days, the Yankees were no strangers near the top of the payroll list in the pre-Jeter days. In the 15 years since Jeter got there, they've missed the playoffs once. Jeter was a huge piece in turning that franchise around.
But why is it ok for Ichiro to be a slap hitter but not Jeter (even though I personally don't label Jeter as a slap hitter)? That was my point in bringing up Ichiro.Ichiro is a better hitter than Derek Jeter hands down
He would have more hits than Jeter if he played in the majors the amount of time Jeter has. Every aspect of the game, Ichiro is better than Jeter. Yet not many people here Ichiro's name. Why? Because he is in Seattle.
Do you understand the game seriously? Jeter's job was never to drive in runs the way A-Rod does. Jeter's job was, among other things, to get on base so guys like A-Rod could drive him in. And at 1,685 runs scored and about to be 25th on the all time list in that category, I'd say he's done a pretty damn good job in that department.Yea i can't believe people even name Jeter to be the best player in baseball even for 1 year. Not once was he close. Every year ARod has a better year than Jeter. The most home runs he hit in 1 year was 24 home runs and most RBI was 102 RB. Arod average 129 RBI per year. If you switch Jeter and Arod in their lineup, AROD will still have more RBI's than that fraud JETER
All Jeter has is decent batting average and thats its. He is consistent every year, i agree. But the problem is its all DAMN SINGLES
I cannot even believe people say Jeter is dangerous at bat. What is he going to do? Hit one to the opposite way for a single
Yankee Brass finally wised up when Jeter came on to the team and it was about the turning point in free agency. The Yankees dominated free agency early on. They had great core pieces with O'Neil, Bernie Williams, and around 95' brought in John Wetland and had a nasty nasty team, had david cone, david wells around that time, and brought in young guys like Jeter, Posada, and the best closer of all time Marino Rivera. You can't act like "Jeter" turned it around. He was a PIECE of the Puzzle on a stacked team but it wasn't like HE turned it around by himself. From about 1995 ( the year before Jeter) the Yankees were stacked.
I remember the Melido Perez days and the early 90's yankees that sucked... Then free agency took off and the Yankees have been one of the top 3 talented teams in the league ever since about 1995. Every freaking year they were one of the most talented. Maybe the Expos were more talented in 1995 or some of those Seattle teams with A-Rod, Edgar Martinez, Tino Martinez, Buhner but the Yankees were top 3 every year.
I'll agree Jeter had range at the very beginning of his career and he was a good short stop but he faded a long time ago and lived off of his name for years. 5 gold gloves is a joke. He wasn't anywhere near an Omar Vizquel. Not even in the same universe as him. You also brought up Roberto Alomar. Alomar was a much better defensive 2B than Jeter ever was at SS.
Mike Young ( how many casual sports fans even know who he is)
2003: .306, 14 HR, 72 RBI,
2004: .313, 22 HR, 99 RBI
2005: .331, 24HR, 91 RBI
2006: .314, 14 HR, 103 RBI
2007: .315, 9HR, 94 RBI
2008: .284, 12 HR, 82 RBI
2009: .322, 22 HR, 68 RBI
2010: .284, 21 HR, 68 RBI
2011: .340 batting average as of today
So what's the major difference between Mike Young and Derek Jeter at this point? New York. One guy plays under the bright lights of New York with the 200 million dollar pay roll with the stars and celebrities and sports writers, and one guy plays in Texas on a team that hasn't done much until last year. If Mike Young played his entire career starting in 1996 under Jeter's circumstances you would have known who he is and he would have been on the commercials and bill boards.
It's very very possible that if Jeter started with the Texas Rangers in 2000 he would have received just as little hype as Mike Young has. Their stats are more similar than you'd like to admit.
My point isn't that Jeter isn't good, or Jeter is worse than Mike Young or Miguel Tejada, my point is that he's had more advantages than anybody and that he isn't nearly as good as he thinks he is or as much as he's talked about.
Only thing Jeter is good at is hitting singles.
Ichiro is a slap hitter as well, thats true. But he is one of the best defense players in baseball year in year out. But how many times have you heard of Ichiro in the media? Not much b/c he is in seattle. If Ichiro was in Yankees doing what he was doing in Seattle, how many of you guys think Jeter's name will be popular? Not many will know who he is.
You also forgot to add another thing. Ichiro plays for Seattle in one of the most PITCHER FRIENDLY ballparks in baseball behind Petco Field. He has been the leader in hits in 8 out of his 10 seasons and had 242 hits in his first year in big leagues. Also, he is 1 year older than Jeter.
I mean Ichiro did this while batting in the 2nd most friendly pitcher ballpark in baseball.
If that poster claimed to know anything about baseball, he'd realize that Ichrio is one of the best all around players in baseball. Couldn't say the same thing about Jeter. He was what, the 12th best guy at his position last year and crying for 15 million dollars? Class A Asshole is more like it. Pretending to get hit by pitches? Is that what he's stooped to? The Yankees are silly to even let him play short stop when he's such a liability like that. After about 5 years in the bigs he lost all of his value as a defensive short stop. Then he went to average and now they are silly for keeping him there.
The difference between Jeter and Mike Young isn't that great, the difference between hype they receive is tremendous. Ask some of the bandwagon Yankee "fans" if they even know who Mike Young is.
So you had no problem bringing up the advantage Jeter had at Yankee stadium (which isn't true btw) but you omit the even bigger advantage Young has had in that hitter's paradise his entire career? Young is just a .284 career hitter on the road and despite having 100 more road at bats he's still hit 22 less homeruns, 118 less rbi's, scoring 109 less runs, and having an OPS .121 lower on the road than he has at home.
Michael Young doesn't win. And when he finally made the postseason after 10 years of losing he didn't do much to contribute with his .254 average. His .250 average (all singles), 0 runs scored, and 0 rbi in the Rangers world series elimination doesn't help his cause either. Not a winner, not clutch, not Jeter.
If you're talking about me I only brought up Ichiro to show how ridiculous the slap hitter comments negatively made towards Jeter were. Obviously I know how good he is otherwise I wouldn't have brought him up for comparison.
And once again, even though Ichiro is well known and has gotten plenty of attention throughout his career, he doesn't win. He's made the postseason once and hit .222 in his elimination series.
They play to win the game.
Jeter wins.
Only good at hitting single huh? His 234 homeruns, 470 doubles, 61 triples, 323 stolen bases, 1698 runs scored, and 1140 rbi's say otherwise. And that's not even including what he's done in the postseason.Only thing Jeter is good at is hitting singles.
Ichiro is a slap hitter as well, thats true. But he is one of the best defense players in baseball year in year out. But how many times have you heard of Ichiro in the media? Not much b/c he is in seattle. If Ichiro was in Yankees doing what he was doing in Seattle, how many of you guys think Jeter's name will be popular? Not many will know who he is.
You also forgot to add another thing. Ichiro plays for Seattle in one of the most PITCHER FRIENDLY ballparks in baseball behind Petco Field. He has been the leader in hits in 8 out of his 10 seasons and had 242 hits in his first year in big leagues. Also, he is 1 year older than Jeter.
I mean Ichiro did this while batting in the 2nd most friendly pitcher ballpark in baseball.
I didn't forget to add anything. I'm not comparing Jeter and Ichiro. You are. Just like you decided to compare A-Rod and Jeter for some reason. They are all great players. No need to argue about who is better than who.
Mike Young doesn't win... He's on the Texas Rangers. They don't spend 200 million dollars on their team every year. Jeter has been on the highest paid team for 17 years in a row. Texas spends a fraction on the team talent.
You want to judge Mike Young on a small sample size against Lincecum, Cain, Brian Wilson in the post season?
Nobody knows who mike Young is even though his stats are similar to Jeter, and you are crazy to even try and compare Jeter to Ichiro. That's an insane argument. Jeter couldn't wipe Ichicro's ass, doesn't have the speed, the arm, the fielding, the swing, the speed that ichiro has. Jeter is a good player marketed as a premier player. That means he's overrated. Thanks for playing, better brush up on your baseball next time.
How is Ichiro suppose to win when 7 other batters in their lineup doesn't hit above .250
Ichiro doesn't win?
Put Jeter on Seattle and take Ichiro off the team ( They'd be worse)
Put Ichiro in New York and take Jeter off the team and they'd be better.
To compare Jeter's word series to Ichiro not winning is beyond stupid. Luke Longely won multiple NBA titles with the Chicago Bulls where as Patrick Ewing won none with the Knicks. Dan Marino never won a title but Brad Johnson did. Do you understand how stupid your argument is?
Do you really think the Yankees wouldn't be any good if they traded Jeter for Ichiro or if Mike Young came up with the team 17 years ago instead of Jeter?
You are a stupid yankee fan that always falls back on stupid cliches and stereotypes " Jeter is clutch". You give yankee fans a bad name with your barbarian attitude and lack of analysis. There's no ceiling to how much praise Jeter can get with fools like you. There's no value that's too high to the guy. Heck, compare him to Pujols because he's just a loser that doesn't have as many rings as Jeter.
Fool
Him hitting .222 in his postseason elimination series doesn't help his team win either. Considering 3 of those 4 losses in that series were by 2 or less runs and he went 2-10 with 1 run scored and 0 rbi's in those 3 games, perhaps they could have won that year had he been better. He was on a lot of very good teams early in his career.How is Ichiro suppose to win when 7 other batters in their lineup doesn't hit above .250
You going to base Ichiro's post season abilities based on 1 postseason?
Ichiro is better than Jeter is every aspect of the game. Yet his name is not big at all because he is in Seattle.
And quit with the clutch phrase. Only thing clutch about Jeter is him hitting to a ground ending double play
Jeter was a decent hitter when he started his career. His best years were from 98-01. Yes he had a good year in 2004. But besides those 5 years, his other years he has been nothing more than MEDIOCRE.
He is always top 10 in the league every year hitting into double plays and striking out.
Ever notice how he strikes out looking at gives the umpire that WTF look like you can't be serious?
Do you understand this game is about winning? You want to know why Jeter gets the hype he does and I told you. He wins and the bigger the game the better he is. Whether it's Ichiro's fault or not, you just can't say the same about Ichiro. Not taking anything away from him by saying that. Unless you're having an ungodly season, nobody really cares what you're doing for a losing team. Plain and simple. Jeter gets to a stage to shine on and he shines. That's why Jeter gets noticed more than Ichiro. There's a reason the MVP award almost always goes to a player on a winning team. The game is all about winning.
Where did this notion that Ichiro is an unknown come from anyway? Every casual fan knows who he is.
No, I don't understand how stupid my argument is. There's a difference between being on the team and contributing largely to that team. Luc Longley is not Michael Jordan just like Posada isn't Jeter. Although Posada's a good player, they don't contribute in the same way. It's not hard to see.
When you have nothing else left resort to the homer card. I'm not a Yankees fan. I hate the Yankees as much as any non-Yankee fan. But I know a great player when I see one.
Jeter's flaws
No range at all at short stop (probably should be moved) but is able to make the routine plays
Swings at the first pitch far too often
doesn't walk enough
Strikes out too much
Grounds into too many double plays
You say comparing him to A-Rod isn't fair when Jeter did that himself. He was publicly a jerk to A-Rod. You want to talk about his "leadership", what leadership? He never embraced him when he came. He refused to move from short stop. When A-Rod wasn't doing well he never backed him in the media and interviews, it was always none of Jeter's business. He was always jealous as sin of A-Rod's success and A-Rod's money.
Jeter was the 12 best offensive short stop last year and bitched that he wanted A-Rod money. He wasn't even in the top 100 offensive players last year and yet he bitched and moaned that 15 million dollars wasn't enough this off season. He's always been jealous of A-Rod . 15 million dollars is the biggest gift we've ever seen in baseball for a has been like Jeter. He's washed up. He's nowhere near a 15 million dollar player reglardless of what he did in the post season 10 years ago.
Most overpaid player in the league this year. He's not even really overrated this year because everybody but a few die hard yankee fans like yourself realize he's worth a fraction of what he's getting.
How many guys you think in the minor leagues at shortshop are better than Jeter right now? He has been horrible since 2004 and between 01-03 he was mediocre just like from 05-10. He has had 5 good seasons and all of them came way early on when he started his career.
They don't want to call anyone up to take Jeter's spot because the yankees respect jeter. All he has is his name and thats it.
You think Jeter would have 3000 hits if he played in Seattle?
1. What else can I base it on? He was given a chance and he was horrible and went home. First chance Jeter was given he was great and won a ring.You going to base Ichiro's post season abilities based on 1 postseason?
Ichiro is better than Jeter is every aspect of the game. Yet his name is not big at all because he is in Seattle.
And quit with the clutch phrase. Only thing clutch about Jeter is him hitting to a ground ending double play
2. No he's not and Ichiro's name is very big. I don't know why you think otherwise.
3. You may not like hearing it but clutch is a part of who he is.
So when the 200 million dollar Yankees... the highest paid and most talented team in the league for 17 straight years win it's all because of Derek Jeter. Forget Rivera, A-Rod, Cano, David Cone, John Wettland, David Wells, Paul O'Neil, Bernine Williams, Tino Martinez, Dave Justice, Andy Petite, Roger Clemens, but remember Jeter. When Seattle losses it's all because of Ichiro.
Hey, How many titles does Albert Pujols have? Not 5, he must be 1/5th the player of Jeter? Let's judge him on a few post season at bats and conclude he's 1/5 the man Derek Jeter is.
The 75 million dollar contract Jeter signed is the biggest joke ever.
Cover your ears, close your eyes and yell clutch clutch clutch Jeter is the bestest player ever.
Still looking at homeruns and rbi's I take it?Jeter was a decent hitter when he started his career. His best years were from 98-01. Yes he had a good year in 2004. But besides those 5 years, his other years he has been nothing more than MEDIOCRE.
He is always top 10 in the league every year hitting into double plays and striking out.
Ever notice how he strikes out looking at gives the umpire that WTF look like you can't be serious?
I would love to know how .334, 18 hr's, 66 rbi's, 107 runs scored, and 30 sb's in 2009 isn't a great year?
.344, 14 hr's, 97 rbi's, 118 runs scored, and 34 sb's in 2006 isn't a great year?
.309 with 122 runs scored in 2005 not a great year?
.324 with 87 runs scored while missing 43 games in 2003 not a great year?
.322 with 102 runs scored in 2007 not a great year?
Quit looking at homeruns and rbi's. That's not his job.
Do you understand anything about statistics? Do you even gamble?
If somebody comes up to bat one time and is 0-1 and another guy is 1-1 you can't make any meaningful statments about the players. None. Nada, Zilch. Nothing.
Baseball is not an individual game.
Football is not an individual game
A couple players can carry a basketball team and 3 can certainly do the trick. In baseball and football you are going to need more than 3 guys. Do you honestly think Derek Jeter on Seattle instead of Ichiro that he'd have 5 rings? Do you think the Yankees wouldn't have won if they had Mike Young all this time instead of Jeter? Do you think Derek Jeter as the Orioles SS hitting 3rd in the lineup with Melvin Mora as your other featured player would have won anything over Tejada?
You credit all of the Yankees success to Jeter and assign all of everybody elses losing to one player in a TEAM sport based on individual achievement. Jeter has never been the best player in baseball... Jeter has never even been the best player on his own team... He's never been the best player at his position. He's just been a good player on a great team for a long long time. Watching you suck the guy off is hilarious.
You're really starting to sound stupid. All you got left is calling me a homer of a team I hate and now putting words in my mouth. Show me where I said Pujols, Mo, A-Rod weren't great players. Show me where I said Jeter won it all by himself. I said he contributed largely, I didn't say he contributed by himself. And I agree his new contract is a joke. Doesn't take away what a great player he used to be though.
Runs scored????
Jeter has hit at the top of the leagues best offense year after year after year. He's also a league leader in at bats every year because the Yanks go through the lineup more than anybody. That's what you don't understand. Havind A-Roid and other top notch hitters beind you 1-9 helps you score runs. He could have been the exact same hitter for the Pittsburgh Pirates and scored 25% less runs because it's a TEAM GAME and he had a great team around him instead of a bad team. That inflates HIS STATS.
If there are two batters and they both have 30 HR but one guy hits in colorado and the other guy hits in Oakland, you can't just say stats are stats are stats and they are equal. You must standardize the data.
How's Jeters dick taste?
Nope. You said Jeter is a winner and that Ichiro and Mike Young were losers. Along that same path of logic you'd say that DEREK JETER HAS 5 RINGS AND PUJOLS DOESN'T, HE'S NOT CLUTCH LIKE THE GOD KNOWN AS DEREK JETER. You make me want to vomit. You can't admit the circumstances, you can't admit he's overrated and makes way more money and gets way more credit than he deserves. 15 million dollars for a slap hitter who can't field. What's the over under on home runs for Jeter this year? 12? You tell me what his final line will be?
.277 batting average, over or under?
12 home runs, over or under?
85 runs scored, over or under?
73 RBI, over or under?
15 million bucks??? He couldn't hold a beer bottle for Troy Tolowitzki to piss in.
LOL at runs scored. You telling me runs scored is close to RBIs? Ichiro has all those hits but if he has less runs than Jeter, its his fault?
7 of his teammates on his team bat BELOW .250.
How many runs would Jeter have per year if 7 of his teammates bat below .250?
So now we're comparing 0-1 to 1-1. I don't even know what your point is there. How about Jeter's 599 career postseason at bats? Can I make a meaningful statement about that?
No, I don't think Jeter being on Seattle or Baltimore would make him a 5 time champ. In fact, I know it wouldn't. That's never been the point. But the fact of the matter is that he is a 5 time champ and has been mostly great to become a 5 time champ and that's why he's viewed as the player he is. Winning is what separates the great from the very good. It's not hard to see.
Who cares if he's never been the best player in the league? Why are you two so focused on comparing him to other players? Him not being the best player in the league doesn't take away the fact that he's a great player.
He is an above average singles hitter and thats it.
599 Postseason at bats? Are you serious?
Of course he is going to have the most AB's of any baseball player when his team is loaded with stars and THEY win every year and Jeter hits 1st or 2nd in the lineup.
So Jeter can do no good then? How many times does he need to score for it to mean anything? How many hits does he need to have for it to mean anything? Homers, Rbi's, stolen bases, etc? Enlighten me please. A-Rods stats meaningless too because he's on one of the best offenses year after year?Runs scored????
Jeter has hit at the top of the leagues best offense year after year after year. He's also a league leader in at bats every year because the Yanks go through the lineup more than anybody. That's what you don't understand. Havind A-Roid and other top notch hitters beind you 1-9 helps you score runs. He could have been the exact same hitter for the Pittsburgh Pirates and scored 25% less runs because it's a TEAM GAME and he had a great team around him instead of a bad team. That inflates HIS STATS.
If there are two batters and they both have 30 HR but one guy hits in colorado and the other guy hits in Oakland, you can't just say stats are stats are stats and they are equal. You must standardize the data.
How's Jeters dick taste?
You want to make meaningful statements about Ichiro or Mike Young's post season careers and you can't. They played for bad teams. It's not their fault. They are 1/25th of the team just like Jeter is 1/25th of the Yankees. You are 4% of the team and can't control the other 96% of the team.
Jeter is overrated because people like yourself latch on to the Jeter is clutch argument and ignore everything else. The hall of fame is for the best, the greatest. The guys that DOMINATED. Jeter will make the hall of fame because he was a good player on a great team for a long time.
With that being said he's highly highly overrated. The Yankees would have still won 5 championships with Mike Young at Short stop. The Texas Rangers would still be o-fer with Derek Jeter at short stop and he wouldn't be getting anywhere near the attention he's getting and he god for sure wouldn't be making 15 million dollars at 36.
There are better players than Jeter in the minors but he's so god for saken selfish he won't hang em up and the Yankees were silly enough to cave in and pay the guy. That's bad for business. The best teams in sports get rid of a guy a year early instead of a year late. Do you think Bill Bellicheck would keep an old washed up Jeter around for 15 million? It must be nice playing in NY and getting all the credit from suckers like you.
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