[bettilimbroke999]

700 billion, think about that a 7 with 11 0s behind it to bailout the companies failing in today's economy, I mean fuk 500 billion for pointless war in Iraq, 700 billion just to keep failing businesses in operation, wtf is goin on with America? Meanwhile we spent only 70 billion last year on education. Where the fuk does all this money come from anyway, where do you get 1.2 EXTRA trillion, it's clear that the Fed is just printing more money and these extra trillions will simply be paid by us in the form of inflation. No wonder the US dollar is worth fukin nothin lately and gold is going through the roof.

[fiveteamer]

they just create more money.

future generations will pay for it.

[pavyracer]

700 billion per 100 million US taxpayers equates to about $7,000 per household. We are paying the bill or our children and grandchildren. It's definitely not Bush and Congress that are paying for this mess.

[gm2022]

I dont think anyone could ever be Barreled in this bad!

[bettilimbroke999]

I dont think anyone could ever be Barreled in this bad!

That's exactly what I'm sayin, what kind of shit investments were these firms makin that they lost 700 billion, fukin Dolphins ML every game last year or somethin? I mean how are they all going bankrupt at the same time, were they all just investing in the same high-risk crap at the same time and hoping they didn't get busted? Also if these firms are dumping 700 billion in the last few years what guarantee is it that they won't make dump investments again and go broke and need another trillion, if the American ppl are paying for the companies why don't they simply nationalize them and make us all stockholders, or direct the profits (assuming they break their current trend of losing hundreds of billions and actually start turning a profit) towards health care or education.

[wtf]

i did not hear anyone complain when the value of their homes were doubling! this whole mess was caused by the bubble in the housing market. just paying the tab now. so 7k per household is nothing compared to what you gained on your respective properties.

[Boner_18]

Depending on how this is finally structured the Gov't could end up making $. They aren't just giving over 700 billion, they are purchasing something that pays interest. For example, they made a great deal w/ AIG but ya'll seemed to miss that, in that deal they are giving a float loan of libor +8.5. PLUS 8. fukking 5.

[marke4]

i did not hear anyone complain when the value of their homes were doubling! this whole mess was caused by the bubble in the housing market. just paying the tab now. so 7k per household is nothing compared to what you gained on your respective properties.

Well said, the problem is simple. During the Clinton years these banks were under pressure to give sub-prime rates to minorities and other who shouldn't of qualified under pressure of being labeled a racist company or even worse subject to fines and penalties for unfair lending practices. This in turn raised everyone's house price significantly. Plus it created a housing boom.

Once all these people were able to move out of apartments and into their own home, they had to fill their homes with stuff. Thus buying stuff, a lot on credit, which helps the economy. Then they had to buy cars to get to work and gas to fuel these cars ect. Which then boosted everyone's 401K's and retirement plans. And everyone loved it.

Most democrats will say Clinton was a legend for what he did and blame the current times on the Bush administration. However, if you look at it, all this so called wealth created during the Clinton years was false wealth. Wealth only on paper. Now people are losing their homes cause there mortgage rates are going back to normal, and people who bought all these things are losing them. Delinquent ************ are skyrocketing, companies are not able to sustain growth since credit standards are getting tighter.

The real question is where did this 700 Billion go???? Did it just disappear? Someone has to have it sitting around somewhere. Some people sold their houses and stocks before the crisis and now they have all the money.

[bettilimbroke999]

i did not hear anyone complain when the value of their homes were doubling! this whole mess was caused by the bubble in the housing market. just paying the tab now. so 7k per household is nothing compared to what you gained on your respective properties.

WTF does subprime mortgage crisis have to do with an insurance company losing a 100 billion?

[bettilimbroke999]

Republicans are fukin nuts, blaming the blacks and Clinton for the subprime crisis, the real reason is that banks were quick to loan money b/c housing prices were soaring, thus the loans were over collateralized and they had no real risk, the bank thought there was no way to lose, either the person pays and they make a good profit or they foreclose and they make a good profit had nothing to do with caring about the blacks as they make up a small percentage of the subprime fiasco, in fact whites buying expensive homes without enough means to pay for them is the main cause.

Then the real estate took a sharp downturn due to the current terrible economic situation in this country where even the largest companies in the world such as insurance giant AIG are filing 100 billion dollar bankruptcies and then when the banks go to foreclose they find out the homes are worth 2/3 what they paid for them leading to their decline and anyone who bought up subprime debts decline.

The truth is subprime mortgages are by nature risky debts, that's why they are classified subprime, banks lend them at high interest rates and are always assured that the property is fully (and rising) or over collateralized before they even think about lending the money, has nothing to do with loaning money to blacks to avoid being thought of as racists, get real.

[MonkeyF0cker]

That is absolutely false, marke4. The push for subprime loans came well after the Clinton administration. In 2003, subprime loans accounted for 8.5% of the mortgages written. In 2006, slightly more than 20% of mortgages were subprime. And there is a greater percentage of the recent subprime loans in default than the mortgages dating back to only 2003.

[ritehook]

it's clear that the Fed is just printing more money and these extra trillions will simply be paid by us in the form of inflation

Absolutely, bettil

I think we will see an inflation such as perhaps US citizens may not have witnessed since the 19th century.

Runaway. Prices on groceries rising weekly, rather than just quarterly as is often the case now.

This boondoggle will be paid for on the backs of those with so-called "safe" investments (like CDs); those with the various retirement funds, as even if stocks rise they will not likely do so to keep anywhere near enough close to the bleeding dollar; those in fixed wage jobs where raises will be very hard to come by - they will get, in effect, hefty salary decreases.

Zimbabwe conditions we may not reach, but something akin to the inflationary hell that wiped out the German middle class in the early 1920s may be waiting in the wings.

Gold is expensive now, but still probably a good buy. Not as an investment, it won't buy you anymore under high inflation as it does not. But, this is key, it won't buy you less, as the paper dollars will.

[daggerkobe]

and Bush did nothing to crack down on predatory subprime lenders because it was political fodder for him to brag how many became first time homeowners under his watch. He didn't do anything until shit hit the fan.

[JBC77]

Under the Bill Clinton era is where we went wrong. Clinton is actually the one who mandated handing out mortgages to people who couldn't afford them. Thats why he's often referred to as the first black president. It was his idea to hand these mortgages to minorities with no questions asked.

This is getting worse. On CNBC today, the CEO of Chrysler is now looking for money from the bailout plan. Ford will be next....they are both on the brink.

[RageWizard]

700 billion is chump change, I'm guessing 3 trillion when it is all done, and guess what, it will make it worse. It will prop up housing prices for the short term, but the prices will still come down over time. The economy will be in a stagflationary state, jobs will be lost. The U.S. has been barrelled in for a while now. Pretty soon we will officially be China's bitch.

[ritehook]

Two key facts under this bailout plan:
Foreign companies with A presence in the US are eligible to be bailed.

And, the 700 billion is just a starting figure. There are no paydowns, it just keeps re-filling.

If a 100 billions is paid off and wiped from the books, anothEr 100 billion under this plan could then be added.

And, the golden parachutes will apparently stay in place. So Joe Sixpack, stuggling to feed his kids and pay the rent or mortgage, will hae to suffer even more to bail out those being chauffered in stretch limos, with private planes and yachts, and who vacation on the Riviera.

"WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL . . ."

[ritehook]

Under the Bill Clinton era is where we went wrong. Clinton is actually the one who mandated handing out mortgages to people who couldn't afford them. Thats why he's often referred to as the first black president. It was his idea to hand these mortgages to minorities with no questions asked.

This is getting worse. On CNBC today, the CEO of Chrysler is now looking for money from the bailout plan. Ford will be next....they are both on the brink.

Uh, no.

The housing boom and the subprime rise didn't really get into high gear until after Clinton left office. The "land and house" boom hit its apex around 2005. As did the subprime financing scam.

[reno cool]

I saw a clip of the geniuses speech. He actually said "the free market isn't working"

no shit. I guess all the capitalist bullshit propaganda goes out the window when the rich need money.

700billion could wipe out poverty and homelessness, but who cares about that. Shame, I hope the world is laughing.

[wtf]

fix poverty, homelessness AND fix bridges, i pray they dont give those greedy dogs on wall street the money.

[supershark]

Clinton is being blamed for this thats a first.

[bettilimbroke999]

Clinton is being blamed for this thats a first.

Exactly, hasn't been president for almost a decade yet he's blamed for every current problem in the country, even though the current situation is an exactly copy of the situation the country was in during George Bush Sr.'s term (but since the previous 8 years was a Repub president in Reagan they couldn't pass off blame), think about it war in the middle east, terrible economy, Repubs are good for one thing, looking out for multi-millionaires, starting wars, and ruining the economy. Hell they bitch about welfare to the single mothers that they are adamant shouldn't have abortions then bailout failing corporations (communist style) for 700 billion dollars. Hell if the only reason a corporation can stay in business is b/c the government keeps them from failing then lets just call this a communist country, hell there's no one gonna bail mom/pop out when Wal-Mart sinks their grocery store, why bailout some investment banking firm who prolly lost half their money paying their top execs a billion/year while the company was goin down the tubes.

[fiveteamer]

The U.S. should just say **** it.

Start invading Yemen and Saudi Arabia and take their shit.

You know they want to.

Who's going to stop them?

[pavyracer]

Say No To Bailout. If The Bailout Passes It Will Be The End Of Your Children And Grandchildren. They Will Be Paying For Years To Come. Let Wall Street Collapse. I Don't Care!!!!!!!!!!!

[picantel]

Bailout passed but at least the scum who caused it all do not get their golden parachute.

[capitalist pig]

700 billion per 100 million US taxpayers equates to about $7,000 per household. We are paying the bill or our children and grandchildren. It's definitely not Bush and Congress that are paying for this mess.

What should have happened here is that every tax payer should have gotten $7,000 worth of stock divided equally among all companies who are getting bailed out (assuming Pavys #s are right on tax payers). The companies could have issued more shares, or done splits if they didnt have the shares on hand. Granted Wall Street would have cried big time from an approach as this, and the markets would have tanked even more. But its the only way we would have had a chance at each of us individually re-couping our dollars in the long run. JMO.

later

[Dark Horse]

Take the bailout.
But kick out the Fed and let the government print the money. At no interest to the American people.

Isn't it funny that the media keep talking about a government bailout and never mention the simple fact that the Fed is NOT the government?

Consider this my financial sig (you may have seen it before). Absolute must-read:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/3495040/co...ers-a-mustread

For the record, the bill gives Paulson sweeping powers. Like Bernanke he represents international bankers. The whole crisis was always about that power. This theory worked for me (based on my dark vision of the market), in that it allowed me to call the moment that oil had peaked. This was when Paulson and Bernanke were before Congress as well... Paulsen was doing most of the talking, and Congress was rolling over. But then the usually quiet Bernanke interrupted Paulson and made sure that the following was on record: 'I want to see that (all the recommendations that Congress was willing to accept) as legislation.'

That was when oil peaked, and I knew it right then and there (price was manipulated by large oil traders, such as Marc Rich; pardoned by Clinton at the end of his term). Amazingly, but perhaps not too surprisingly, this Monday, when it appeared that the real government was not willing to roll over and wanted to debate the bill, oil had its biggest one-day rise ever (from which it has since come down).

How do such seemingly unrelated issues fit together? Read the linked article.

Was this crisis fabricated? What do you think? Do you really think that bankers don't know what happens when they loan money to people who can't pay the loans back? The World Bank and IMF have a long history of pulling this trick on poor countries. They typically end up with the resources of those nations.

[chuba]

Bush is rick rolling!!!

[RageWizard]

What should have happened here is that every tax payer should have gotten $7,000 worth of stock divided equally among all companies who are getting bailed out (assuming Pavys #s are right on tax payers). The companies could have issued more shares, or done splits if they didnt have the shares on hand. Granted Wall Street would have cried big time from an approach as this, and the markets would have tanked even more. But its the only way we would have had a chance at each of us individually re-couping our dollars in the long run. JMO.

later

I agree, if they are going to use my money to save Wall Street, at least give my some equity share so that next year when they start rolling in the profits, I can get back some of my losses.
BTW the economy will still tank, but now with the crooks on Wall Street artificially holding up housing prices for a bit, it will take longer to get out of this mess.

[pico]

there is always the option of US gov declare bankruptcy.

[wtf]

paulson taking care of his hampton buddies. whole thing sickens me. welfare for the uber wealthy.

[element1286]

The problem with this is not really the bailout in it's purest sense, either way the economy is going to be rough. But the fact that the bailout doesn't come with across the board government spending cuts, and the elimination or overhaul of entitlement programs.

[bettilimbroke999]

Eliminating social security and Medicare whilst giving failing corporations 700 billion, damn you are a republican element

[element1286]

Eliminating social security and Medicare whilst giving failing corporations 700 billion, damn you are a republican element

I don't support the bailout, I was just saying it could be dealt with (as a one time occurrence) if they balanced the budget, and got rid of unsustainable entitlement programs.

The only thing that will solve this problem would be to get the government's budget under control, so they stop printing and borrowing money, thus stop devaluing the dollar. That is what is hurting the economy. Cut entitlements, balance the budget, pay off debts, cut taxes. It would be rough for a while, but would ultimately get the economy back on the track.

[pico]

that is right, where is the 1 trillion bailout for social security?

[HedgeHog]

there is always the option of US gov declare bankruptcy.

Hope your post was sarcastic as all our banks are backed by the "faith" in the US government to pay it's debts and insure deposits. A bankrupt US would create total chaos.