Originally <a href='/showthread.php?p=20898922'>posted</a> on 01/16/2014:

Quote Originally Posted by easyliving View Post
Elway drafted 1st overall, didn't want to play for the team he was drafted by and forced a trade, Brady drafted in the 6th round as a backup makes the most of an opportunity and goes on to win 3 super bowls while putting up stellar numbers every year while never really having a deep threat on offense. And the one year he has a deep threat in Moss he breaks all sorts of records and gets to the Super Bowl undefeated. And even at age 36 guy is still putting up the numbers and is coming off another great season. No debate here.
My god, the problem is no one digs deeper than what's on the surface.

How many of those rings is Brady himself responsible for? The correct answer is 0. The rings were won by a top 3 defensive unit, who was able to place a mediocre QB into a system where he thrived as a game manager, nothing more.

Since not fielding a top 3 defensive unit, how many rings does Brady have? 0. Was Brady the main component of any of the 3 championship teams? No.

I'm not saying Brady isn't one of the top 15 of all time, because you have to put him there based on the rings alone.

No one in the history of the NFL has benefited from YAC more than Brady. He got the nickname Mr CHeck Down Tom for a reason. He is a part of an offensive system, much like you'd see in college.

He puts up great numbers because he played in the worst division in football his entire career, while throwing the most 4th quarter TD's. The 4th quarter TD's is a big stat because, when most starting QB's would be sitting on the bench, Brady was out there throwing the ball, because apparently a 28 point 4th quarter lead just isn't enough.

IF Brady were to have won a SB without that top 3 defense, which he's had 10 seasons to do so, I'd give him much more credit, but he hasn't because he can't.

Manning may only have 1 ring, but he put Indy on his back to win it, he was the main component to that team. Brady has never been the main component of a championship team, the top 3 defense was.

I know people read what I say and say I'm a Brady hater, but I'm really not. I can say he's top 15 of all time, but couldn't hold the jockstrap's of the top 5.

The major flaw in arguments is counting rings as a way to determine how successful one was. A NFL roster consists of 52 men, not one. Brady had great teams with arguably the greatest coach of all time.

I do hope that Manning wins it this year, then with a second ring the whole ring argument goes down the toilet and he's the undisputed greatest of all time. He holds all major QB records, he's an innovator, a leader, and just watching him play the position it's so obvious he's the greatest. I like Manning, but I don't love him, I just enjoy watching greatness.

I had a friend who I finally convinced after putting fourth the main arguments regarding Manning vs Brady. He was first a supporter of Brady, but now believes without a doubt Manning is the greatest. He's also an extremely intelligent individual, so you bet I had to come up with a logical and convincing argument.

This is what I tell everyone regarding Manning.

Manning is a Wizard among Magicians. Magicians create illusions, while Wizards create true magic.