[stevenash]

Manny is without question a hall of famer. You guys sound stupid for thinking elsewise

He's not getting to the Hall.

This is what the voters think of 'roiders

Jeff Bagwell: 41.7%
Mark McGwire: 19.8%
Rafael Palmeiro: 11.0%
Juan Gonzalez: 5.2%
Kevin Brown: 2.1%

Next years numbers for the new 'roid list will be the same.

McGwire's usage history is well-known, and despite coming clean about his steroid use last January, his support dropped a few percentage points from last year. Palmeiro insists he never used despite failing a test and getting suspended, and he received little support despite a long and impressive career that saw him exceed 3000 hits and 500 homers. Brown, who has long been suspected of using, earned precious little support despite very strong numbers. Gonzalez is in a similar boat as Brown. And in the most polarizing case, Bagwell was hurt by voter suspicion despite zero links to usage, and despite career statistics that match him up with names like Rod Carew and Joe DiMaggio.

There is no question that a player with Jeff Bagwell's statistics belongs in the Hall of Fame, but as evidenced by his results, and by the results for others, many of the BBWAA voters want little to do with players who even just may have used PEDs at some point in their careers. Whether right or wrong, that appears to be the committee's current collective position.

Peter Gammons who loved the guy when he was with the Sox, has a vote, but won't vote him in.

You think guys like Maury Allen of The New York Times and the rest will vote for him?
Not bloody likely.

Not only that, the people who the voters cover, have influence.
Like Bob Melvin for instance.
He wants to literally kill Manny, Melvin has clout, he talks to the voters often.

There is no way, no how, Manny gets in