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Really so he wasn't in charge of the team for the 2000 draft? If not who was. And please don't get cute and bring up the QB coach, he championed it but Belichick had the final decision and the plan was to go with a QB with the pick. It was between Brady and another QB do you know who the other QB was?Originally Posted by Tymmy
I am a Cowboy fan---so I don't know the Patriots history like I know my 'Boys, but these are just off the top of my head....
Belichek drafted these guys---and all are pretty damn good NFL players
Brady in the 6th round
Richard Seymour
Dan Koppen (In the 5th round)
Asante Samuel
Eugene Wilson
Vince Wilfork
Ben Watson
Matt Cassell (in the 7th round)
Logan Mankins
Mayo
Nick Kaczur (Out of Toledo)
Tymmy,
You argument is weak.
If Belichek drafted poorly----as you claim----then how the hell are the Patriots still winning?
I am guessing you are going to say Brady-----but Belichek drafted Brady in the 2000 draft----and if you google Brady's discussion about the draft----he tells a story about how Belichek called and told him that if he was still available in the 6th round---Belichek would draft him. He did.
pretty good list
You are correct. At the time he was not in charge(of drafting). GM yes.
Very nice. Those are Not all his.
Check it.
Seymour???????
So who was?
Dude just a warning you need to stop now before you conitinue to make a fool of yourself. I have been toying with you to see what you would say. But that is no longer fun after this statement.Very nice. Those are Not all his.
Check it.
Seymour???????
Still winning. Are we speaking of presently??? or the past?
Let's start with presently..... Right now they are the 3rd best team in their division.
Last night the two best(presently in the standings) knocked heads and battled in a close thriller.
New England, though their offense is one of the best, STRUGGLED with the worst in the division. STRUGGLED, not just to cover, but to win outright.
The genious, as many of you argue, has one of the worst Defenses in the league. And he's known for that(def coord.) right??
Who drafted those guys?
You mean the starting defense that lost its pro bowl caliber DE and its best CB to the IR? The same defense that has six starters that are either rookies or 2nd year players but 1st year starters? Six defensive starters drafted in the past two drafts but he doesn't have it.
1. How many NFL coaches have won a Super Bowl with more than one QB? Very few. Joe Gibbs (Theismann, Doug Williams, Mark Rypien) is the only one off the top of my head. I guess Seifert won with Montana & Young once each, right? He's no great coach. Otherwise the rare coaches that won multiple Super Bowls did it with the same QB. (Lombardi-Starr, Shula-Griese, Landry-Staubach, Noll-Bradshaw, Flores-Plunkett, Walsh-Montana, Jimmy Johnson-Aikman, Shannahan-Elway, Parcells-Simms). So, I guess your argument amounts to Joe Gibbs is the greatest ever and everyone else sucks? (Lombardi, Noll, Walsh)
2. Again, go through the coaching staffs of any of the multiple winner coaches and there was migration, especially in the modern era. I'm not sure assistant coaching migration was quite as common in the Lombardi-Noll eras. If anything, the Belichick defectors have been pathetic. Weiss flopped at Notre Dame, Crennel sucked with the Browns, Mangini couldn't cut with the NYJ and he's looking even worse with the Browns. McDaniels is taking the Broncos from mediocre to terrible. KC will come crashing back down to earth, they've done nothing yet. This argument has more working against it than the skimpy evidence of KC working in it's favor.
Technically Parcells won it with Simms and Hostetler, remember Simms got injured either late in the season or early in the playoffs. Can't remember off the top of my head.
But very good post.
Didn't Shula win it with Griese and Johnny U?
Oh really dude???? Go play with your toys. You don't know. You don't follow the team.
Fact, the above List: Samuel, Seymour.... Where are they now?????
On other teams. Yes. He dealt them away. Do you think he could use some of these guys right now???
He has been heavily criticized, EVEN here in Boston, for making poor moves; for a downward spiral of the team.
They are not what they were. Pioli, Weis, Crennel gone.....
Again, he's not out coaching, out drafting, outthinking ANYONE.
OK dude??
These are facts.
Bledsoe won that first AFC Championship game to get him to that first super bowl.
I'm confused.
The Patriots have won the AFC East 7 of the last 8 years.
Name another coach in the NFL who has accomplished that? Can you? Didn't think so.
What exactly has Rex Ryan or Tony Sparano won? A Division title? An AFC title? Anything?
Until the Jets or Dolphins win this division---officially---the Pats are still the king.
I know that is a tough pill to swallow for you because you hate Belichek so much, but come on man----7 of 8 Division titles? You've got to be kidding me if you don't respect that.
Bellichick is a nobody without Brady? You guys are forgetting that without Bellchick there is no Brady.
I think you're right about Parcells. I was kinda foggy on that one. I'm on my 3rd beer otherwise I usually fact-check my posts before I fire them out.
Oh, and dude.... It could be argued(and has been) that Brady, yes Brady.... is not what he once was.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying he's not a good Qb. Don't put words in my mouth!!!!!
I'm saying(because it has happened), that his production AGAINST the better teams in the NFL has fallen dramatically in the last two seasons.
He has his best games against the Tampas, the Buffalos, Sf etc......
Week 1- Cincy had more 1st downs and yards than NE.
Week 2- Sanchez was far and away the best QB on the field.
Last year??? same pattern.
Is it because he's all Hollywood now?? speculation at best
Dude, look at what he's done vs. Indy, NY, Miami etc. compared to these aforementioned opponents.
Interesting to say the least
Tom Landry won 7 staight division titles and 12 of 14 .... And if the colts win this year it will be 7/8 division titles too.
Landry was legendary. Comparing Belichick to Landry is only complimentary. You're hurting your own argument.
As for the Colts, that division was crap for a long time. The Texans have been a free win for years and years until this year. How about the Jags, they had some good years here and there but they're a pretty marginal franchise. The Titans are solid, but they are up and down too. Then again, the Jets, Phins & Bills aren't that scary in the last decade either.
First I follow the team religiously and you sir are talking out of your ass.
First in 2000 Belichick and Pioli as was the case through the 2008 draft made draft decision only if they both agreed (or so a little book written by Mike Holley told me, maybe he is a liar I don't know). Now considering Pioli was once his errand boy, I highly doubt that BB didn't have final say in all personnel matters. In the 2000 draft they were using Bobby Grier's and Pete Carroll's draft data, but still made the picks nonetheless.
The closest busts you could say they had over the last 11 years is Maroney (who still had some productive years, just not what was expected), Daniel Graham and Ben Watson but that is as close as it gets for busts.
His first round picks:
2000: No first round pick thanks to the genious that was Pete Carrol and Bobby Grier
2001: Richard Seymour
2002: Daniel Graham
2003: Ty Warren
2004: Vince Wilfork and Ben Watson(32nd pick)
2005: Logan Mankins
2006: Laurence Maroney
2007: Brandon Merriweather
2008: Mayo
2009: Traded out
2010: McCourtey
Seems terrible to me now should we go deeper in the draft? I know getting Wes Welker for a 2nd and 7th round pick was terrible, how about a 4th for Moss what a ******* waste. Ooh and trading down for Mayo was inexcusable. And trading down over the past couple of seasons that has produced a starting DE, SS, OLB, CB, OT and TE all in the 2nd round. And that Hernandez guy he picked up in the 4th round was another terrible decision. Yup he has clearly lost it.
Asante sucks the guy is a liability, go ask Eagles fans what they think of the little pussy who doesn't tackle and gets burned far more often than he gets picks. Seymour, I know getting his best 9 seasons out of hall of famer who's skills are eroding and has health isues and turning that into the Raiders 1st round pick next season is idiocy at its finest.
The Boston media is the last place you want to base your opinion on.
Should I keep going or should I go play with my toys?
Under the same coach? Nope. And Belichick has won it 7 out of 10 years as the coach of the Pats. He went 5-11 after taking over a terrible roster and a team in cap hell. He lost out on a tie breaker in 2002. And again lost out on a tie breaker in 2008. So in two out of the 3 years he hasn't won the division he finished with the same record as the division winner.
Are you just jealous because you might have the dumbest coach in the NFL?
Last edited by mgcolby; 09-27-10 at 08:56 PM.
You just keep making this to easy. You do know that Brady has had the two best seasons of his career in the last two years that he played, right? I think 2007 stands on its own. No? Ok moving on, he threw for 4400 yards and 28 TD's and 13 picks against the toughest schedule of pass defenses any QB has faced since 1993 in the NFL.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...05/mmqb/2.html
so yeah he has clearly lost it.
lol week 1 vs cincy is this guy serious? they were up 31-3 do you think they are going to keep passing? wow dude just wowwwwwwwwwww
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Did mommy put Jimmy and Timmy to bed???
No not yet...She lets me stay up late to watch MNF !!
Alright that was funny.No not yet...She lets me stay up late to watch MNF !!
First I follow the team religiously and you sir are talking out of your ass.
First in 2000 Belichick and Pioli as was the case through the 2008 draft made draft decision only if they both agreed (or so a little book written by Mike Holley told me, maybe he is a liar I don't know). Now considering Pioli was once his errand boy, I highly doubt that BB didn't have final say in all personnel matters. In the 2000 draft they were using Bobby Grier's and Pete Carroll's draft data, but still made the picks nonetheless.
The closest busts you could say they had over the last 11 years is Maroney (who still had some productive years, just not what was expected), Daniel Graham and Ben Watson but that is as close as it gets for busts.
His first round picks:
2000: No first round pick thanks to the genious that was Pete Carrol and Bobby Grier
2001: Richard Seymour
2002: Daniel Graham
2003: Ty Warren
2004: Vince Wilfork and Ben Watson(32nd pick)
2005: Logan Mankins
2006: Laurence Maroney
2007: Brandon Merriweather
2008: Mayo
2009: Traded out
2010: McCourtey
Seems terrible to me now should we go deeper in the draft? I know getting Wes Welker for a 2nd and 7th round pick was terrible, how about a 4th for Moss what a ******* waste. Ooh and trading down for Mayo was inexcusable. And trading down over the past couple of seasons that has produced a starting DE, SS, OLB, CB, OT and TE all in the 2nd round. And that Hernandez guy he picked up in the 4th round was another terrible decision. Yup he has clearly lost it.
Asante sucks the guy is a liability, go ask Eagles fans what they think of the little pussy who doesn't tackle and gets burned far more often than he gets picks. Seymour, I know getting his best 9 seasons out of hall of famer who's skills are eroding and has health isues and turning that into the Raiders 1st round pick next season is idiocy at its finest.
The Boston media is the last place you want to base your opinion on.
Should I keep going or should I go play with my toys?
Of that list dude, Woolfork and Mayo. No, you/he absolutely does not get credit for Seymour.
The rest of that list???? Well you prove my point.
Thanks Dude.
You just keep making this to easy. You do know that Brady has had the two best seasons of his career in the last two years that he played, right? I think 2007 stands on its own. No? Ok moving on, he threw for 4400 yards and 28 TD's and 13 picks against the toughest schedule of pass defenses any QB has faced since 1993 in the NFL.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...05/mmqb/2.html
so yeah he has clearly lost it.
I wasn't referring to 07 or 08.
Buuuuttttt..... Since you brought it up, they played the easiest schedule in the league both seasons dude.
You also make the point that I don't like Belicheck.
You are correct.
Finally you are right.
How narly is that???
Did you ever ask yourself why so many around the country don't like him??? Even some in Boston????
His reputation has been tarnished for many reasons.
Over the last several years we have found he's neither the man, or genious, OR wonderful coach that was once thought.
If you followed them religiously, you would know this.
Sorry dude,.
The smartest coaches in the NFL, in no particular order: Payton, Bellichick, Ryan, Whisenhunt, and Peyton Manning. When they have a QB that is also very smart, watch out. Football is more and more won with the brain.
The coaches that are not so smart will have a very hard time winning Superbowls. They're simply outwitted when it counts. The exception could be the Steelers, because they have a core of players that's been together for many years who buy into the same philosophy. Like Peyton Manning, those players take on coaching responsibility on the field.
Going 11-5 with a backup QB the entire season? That's a recent accomplishment that's very impressive.
He's had nothing but winning seasons for as long as anyone can remember, very few coaches can say that.
He's been picking on the end of the draft forever and still wins. Usually this burns dynasties out.
Bottom line, each win immortalizes Belichick more and more. If anything, the NFL has been changing the rules to give the Pats less of an edge. Notice how the recent rule changes have constantly been going in favor of the passing game which is the exact opposite of Belichick's desired philosophy as a former DC. What does he do? He goes out and finds the best way to change with the times by bringing in the top talent in the NFL @ WR, such as Moss. This, above all else, is what solidifies this man's genius when considered in his larger body of work.
How about you tell me why? You've done nothing but talk out your ass since you joined this thread and haven't responded to a single question that I have asked you. If he didn't draft him then who did?
Can't wait to hear this.
How the hell does any of that prove you right. Are you delusional?
2007 was an easy schedule they played 6 teams with 10+ wins. And a total of 8 games against 500 or better teams. 2008 I will agree.
Oh and the man's name is Wilfork.
Last edited by mgcolby; 09-28-10 at 10:49 AM.
how wade phillips still has a job is beyond me
The Boston media doesn't like him and the media in general, because he doesn't make their job easy for them. He doesn't run his mouth like Rex, he doesn't give great quotes like Parcells, he doesn't tell them everything that is going on in the lockerroom like Childress etc... He gives nothing but bland generic statements, because he learned in Cleveland that talking and arguing with the media is of no value to his football team.
And I really could care less what people in the media or in general think of him personally or what his reputation is. His job is to win football games and no one in the NFL is better at than him, period. And that is not debatable! So whether the rejects in the media like him or not is irrelevent.
What he cheated on his wife? aww... what the **** does that have to do with football?
Seriously, you are gonna have to come with some meat or I am going to continue pointing out your idiocy. Now you can keep throwing out generic statements without a supporting argument if you like, but you are just making yourself look foolish by doing so.
Last edited by mgcolby; 09-28-10 at 10:51 AM.
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