[HAPPY BOY]

havn't watched him play alot this year. Im watching the game today, this guy has happy feat. Another mobile QB with little pocket presence I also noticed he doesn't pick up the blitzes. He just tucks and run tucks and run. He reminds me of Mike Vick a REAL bust. I know he's new, but what Iv'e seen doesn;t bold well. What are ur thoughts?

[Destroyer]

Vince panics too easily when the offensive line collapses and his first instinct is to run out of the pocket. This usually creates negative yardage plays.

Vince should utilize his receivers and tight ends more often to make plays by passing, rather than, attempting those silly run-out-pocket plays that more than often causes loss yardages.

[SPECULATOR 13]

havn't watched him play alot this year. Im watching the game today, this guy has happy feat. Another mobile QB with little pocket presence I also noticed he doesn't pick up the blitzes. He just tucks and run tucks and run. He reminds me of Mike Vick a REAL bust. I know he's new, but what Iv'e seen doesn;t bold well. What are ur thoughts?

HAPPY,this is a foible that beset all the modern day Negro QBs,the irony in all of this is that when the NFL had a overtly racist albeit unwritten rule against blacks being allowed to be QBs ,occasionally a team you take a chance on GOLD CHIP prospects like a: Joe Gillam (pitts'74),James Harris(L.A.Rams'74),Doug Williams(T.B.1st round draft choice'78/'88wash.SB WINNER)and Warren Moon(Hall of Famer-CFL ultra superstar 5 grey cup win in 6 yrs!!!!) whom were just EXCELLENT Quarter-Backs PERIOD!!!
However All sort of pathetic and disgraceful intrigues happened around these mens and those whom dared to hire them by the media,the fans and society in general make it virtually impossible for them to succeed.
One could have believe with the complete openness of today's NFL,QBs like the gentlemens i mention above would be coming out of the woodwork but instead we are subjected to these clowns witch long ago would have been rightfully turn into either a:RB,TE,WR,LB or CB ,instead of the disgraces witch are ruining today's game...

[HAPPY BOY]

I don't want to bring race into my discussion, all I'm saying is his mechanics look poor. Even the half cocked way he slings the ball looks awkward. Maybe he improves, but when u play ur entire life that way it's hard to change.

[4FUN.AND$$]

HB,

I saw Vince play many times in college. he was awesome. my concern before he ever entered the NFL was his style of play relied on his speed and little on his drop back pass. My concern was his speed would be matched in the NFL and the lack of true passing ability would create issues for him in the pros. He has had moments of brilliance in the pros but everyone has him figured out and I think at this point most people are very disappointed in his performance this year.

[t2wentyfou4r]

We have to realize, this is Vince's second year in the NFL. It's hard to judge a player if there a bust or not on 1 1/2 season played. Vince is a different animal than the stereo type QB in the NFL. He can't be compared to Peyton Manning, Brett Farve, or Tom Brady. We can compare him to a Randall Cunniningham with a Bernie Kosar throwing motion. We have to give him time to learn how to be an NFL QB. We see Phillip Rivers, Eli Manning, Alex Smith, Jay Cutler, J.P Losman, and many other former high draft picks struggle. Can we call all these guys bust? I can remember people calling Peyton Manning, and Troy Aikman bust after there first few years in the league. They went through hell and back; throwing INT, and losing many games during the process. Give it some time, and the question will be anwered by itself.

[Hoja Verdes]

hi, i'm the English language, have we met? Apparently not.

[BROOKLYN BOY]

The common problems that plague 90%+ of black qb's
1. lack of accuracy
2. poor decision making under pressure
3. difficulty holding on to the ball

Vince is no different...
another good % of them want to be Marino or Montana, which is of course not possible.

Warren Moon was special and there is no doubt when listening to him that he is more intelligent than any other black qb i've ever seen...and that intelligence directly correlates to his success.

This being said I don't think Young is a bust yet...but well on the road..

[babaoriley]

Yes, leading a pathetic Titans team to the brink of the playoffs two straight years is pathetic, especially when injured the second of those two seasons. Let's all put on white hoods and hang him. Yee-haw!!!


Now in all seriousness,
Would you have happy feet if you knew for a fact that none of your receivers would be open and you only had one good leg? Not to take away from the greatness that is the Titans receiving corps of Nobody, Nobody #2, Nobody #3, and Tight End with Stone Hands (Troupe), but the only reliable receiver on the damn team is the other TE, Bo Scaife (his UT teammate). I'd rather have VY for the next 10 years than Alex Smith (a #1 overall pick who scored a 40 on his Wunderlic and is a pocket passer).

And when discussing race, Randall Cunningham, Donovan McNabb, Daunte Culpepper were all amazing QB's at one time or another in the NFL. Do your research.

[hi-rez]

The passive-aggressive racism of this thread is pretty repulsive...

[babaoriley]

The passive-aggressive racism of this thread is pretty repulsive...

Agreed. Criticize the guy for his mechanics all you want, but don't bring historical precedents of "Black QB's are dumb" up. It just makes you look like idiots.

[rm18]

even if they are dumb, being smart has little to do with reading defenses, some guys are smart like Manning and can read defenses, while some guys like Marino are dumb but can read defenses, and some guys are smart but can't read defenses like Alex Smith.

[t2wentyfou4r]

Vince is winning with a bunch of spare parts on the team. Put some talent around him, and see what happens. If Moulds is your best WR, we have a problem here.

[McBa1n]

Vince is winning with a bunch of spare parts on the team. Put some talent around him, and see what happens. If Moulds is your best WR, we have a problem here.

WINNER!!!
Also, everyone knew when he was in college that his mechanics are way different than a traditional pocket passer. Additionally - his development, IMO, was hampered by Texas' offense. His coaches gave him 1 read (JUST 1!!!) - if it wasn't there, then he was supposed to take off and run.

That's nothing new, per se --- look at Big Ben when he was a rookie, his responsibility was only to read 1 half of the field, if nothing was there, he was to throw it away.

Whats making me sick is the 'black quarterback' thing coming into the equation. It's heavily racist. Black QBs (and coaches) are held to such lofty standards, that there is no way, until all these racist jerkwaters get it out of their head, that not even superman could live up to the expectations. Until people see it's a QB, not a 'black QB', or a coach, not a 'black coach' will things be equal. It's better now than ever, but we've got a long way to go.

Do you think Daunte Culpepper would've been treated the way he has if he was white? He was the MVP of the league (behind a sick year from Manning), got injured, then buried in obscurity. How do you go from one of the best statistical seasons of all time to playing behind Joey Harrington and Josh McCown is beyond me.

As for Vince - he won't be conventional anytime soon... And if you've followed any of his career, do you really want him to be? The blue-print of how NOT to play him was shown vs the Jaguars early in the season (defending the option run - over commiting spy protection).

Vince is in that category of QBs right now, where if you're cheering against him, you're afraid on 3rd down - to me, that's how you gauge 'special' QBs. Yeah he's lost a bit of that mystique this year - but he has NO ONE around him. Manning won less with more talent early in his career.

Also, don't be fooled by the Titan's running game. While it's solid, that line isn't anywhere near the level people believe it to be. The running game is so good because teams have to protect against the big play with Vince - it's harder to commit 8 in the box. If he checks out of a run, and ends up scrambling - big plays happen... And NO ONE wants to tackle the guy.

Also, Vince has one of the best coaches in the league in Jeff Fisher on his side - and his O coordinator, Norm Chow, is also excellent... He has some solid vets on his O line, also. But to call him a bust? yeesh.

I'd take him on my team any day - you know you have a chance to win.

[Doc JS]

The short answer is: it's too soon to label him a bust.

By the same token, it's not clear that he will become an upper echelon NFL QB either.

[BrentCrude]

So,it's perfectly ok to have a movie called White Men Can't Jump where the Hollywood liberals make the movie and libs go to the movie to laugh about it but handicappers that get burnt by erratic black quarterbacks can't factually say they don't make good NFL quarterbacks.

Is there something here that I don't comprehend where it's ok to make truthful blanket statements that white men can't jump as well as blacks but make better NFL quarterbacks.

So why doesn't someone make a movie called,black men can't play NFL quarterback?

[McBa1n]

So,it's perfectly ok to have a movie called White Men Can't Jump where the Hollywood liberals make the movie and libs go to the movie to laugh about it but handicappers that get burnt by erratic black quarterbacks can't factually say they don't make good NFL quarterbacks.

Is there something here that I don't comprehend where it's ok to make truthful blanket statements that white men can't jump as well as blacks but make better NFL quarterbacks.

So why doesn't someone make a movie called,black men can't play NFL quarterback?

The title, "White Men Can't Jump" was ironic, knucklehead. If you saw the movie, the white boy dunked in the end. Also, it was a satirical look at a silly sterotype. The title also insinuates a metaphore for Woody Harrelson's character that had nothing to do with basketball...

You're way off base with this 'liberal hollywood' thing. If being satirical and ironic is being 'liberal' and making blanket statement stereotypes is not - then I want to be a liberal. Besides, I don't know if you heard, but Jim Crow has been dead for a long time now. Maybe I'm being naive - but I watch football players play football. That's about it.

It's only a double standard if you are black and coach or play QB in the NFL - you're held to HIGHER standards.

Black QBs are all very different, like white QBs. It's just Black QBs are actually given a chance to play the position in the modern era, finally... There's a reason there were no professional QBs 'back in the day' - it's called blanket racism at all levels. Blacks were not well integrated into football, either, if you read your history books on the game. Jim Brown - JIM BROWN sat on the bench at Syracuse for much of his career because he was black.

To just say 'black QBs' can run -- and that's it -- is a total farce. No one says 'only white QBs pocket pass'. Why? It's a farce.

[BrentCrude]

The title, "White Men Can't Jump" was ironic, knucklehead. If you saw the movie, the white boy dunked in the end. Also, it was a satirical look at a silly sterotype. The title also insinuates a metaphore for Woody Harrelson's character that had nothing to do with basketball...

You're way off base with this 'liberal hollywood' thing. If being satirical and ironic is being 'liberal' and making blanket statement stereotypes is not - then I want to be a liberal. Besides, I don't know if you heard, but Jim Crow has been dead for a long time now. Maybe I'm being naive - but I watch football players play football. That's about it.

It's only a double standard if you are black and coach or play QB in the NFL - you're held to HIGHER standards.

Black QBs are all very different, like white QBs. It's just Black QBs are actually given a chance to play the position in the modern era, finally... There's a reason there were no professional QBs 'back in the day' - it's called blanket racism at all levels. Blacks were not well integrated into football, either, if you read your history books on the game. Jim Brown - JIM BROWN sat on the bench at Syracuse for much of his career because he was black.

To just say 'black QBs' can run -- and that's it -- is a total farce. No one says 'only white QBs pocket pass'. Why? It's a farce.

Then make the movie called Black men can't play NFL quarterback and make Vince Young the winning quarterback.


Black quarterbacks from podunk state can always go to Canada and play in the CFL where they need quarterbacks that can run out of the pocket and have cannons for arms to play with 3 downs and a huge field.I have seen black quarterbacks that don't even show up on the NFL draft radar screen that go up to Canada and become stars where your Dan Marino types wouldn't have made it.Too bad a star QB in Canada makes 1/4 the salary of what a rookie practice squad qb makes in the NFL.


Does anyone ever notice that black guys don't ever get bent out of shape over the stereotype of having big,,,you know?I can just hear a black guy yell at someone,how dare you think I have a huge %^$#,why can't I have one that's one inch.

[McBa1n]

Alright, man. Rather than criticize you - I'll just present facts. Hopefully that may help you see things differently. I don't have to make a movie - Vince is a winner, flat out.

Lets go over Vince Young's record line by line at the helm of a very mediocre (and I'm being nice) team in the NFL and prior.
His high school record I don't know offhand, but I'm sure it's dominating... Mostly all I've heard was that he was 'a winner' from people who saw him play... Can't say 100%, I don't KNOW.
Texas won the BCS over a team with Reggie Bush and a white QB. That's pretty good, I think (7-8 point dogs, if I remember correctly). I know you'll say he ran them to victory - and I say GOOD. You are who you are. But he did throw the ball in that game and he DID will that team to victory. Do you care how your football team wins? I don't.

NFL 2006
Sun, Oct 1 vs Dal - 45-14, major L, his first 'start' in his career. Disaster.

Sun, Oct 8 @IND - 14-13 L. IND was favored by 18 I believe. I remember taking Indy in this game. This went down to the wire. Win or lose, in your 2nd game having a CHANCE to win against the Super Bowl Champ, while on the road - that's pretty impressive. He DID only throw for 63 yards, but he's the QB - it all goes thru him.

Sun, Oct 15 @WAS - He threw for 161 in a win over the Skins, 25-22

Sun, Oct 29 Vs Houston 28-22 W. Sure Houston stinks, but TEN was 1-5 going into this game. 87 yards passing and 44 rushing - including the winning touchdown that was a miracle IMO.

Sun, Nov 5 @ JAX 37-7 L. Disaster as a team. When you give up that many points to this Jags team (with all their injuries at the time), you freakin stink. Travis Henry led the way with a whopping 67 yds on the ground. TEN was dominated.

Sun, Nov 12 BALT 27-26 L. Balt's record was impressive last year. Their Defense was unstoppable... Yet to lose by 1 point? Tough loss, for sure, but TEN was 2-6 going into this game. Talent disparity? Yes. 1 Point loss? I give TEN credit. But an L is an L.

Sun, Nov 19 @ Philadelphia 31-13 W. Young only tossed for 101 yards, but the team dominated. IN PHILLY. Not exactly a pedestrian place to play. Philly made the playoffs, also.

12 Sun, Nov 26 NY Giants 24-21 W. Giants were starting to nosedive, but they were in contention at this point. Young threw for 249 Yds and ran for 69. It should be noted that TEN scored 24 points in the 4th quarter. THE 4th QUARTER!!!!! From Espn.com:
"Young ran for a touchdown and threw for two more in the final 9:35 and finished with a career-high 249 yards passing. Rob Bironas kicked a 49-yard field goal with 6 seconds left to win it." Elway style here, IMO.

13 Sun, Dec 3 Indianapolis 20-17 W. I'm not going to point to stats. They beat the Super Bowl Champs. That says enough for me.

14 Sun, Dec 10 @ Houston 26-20 W(OT). If you didn't see how Young won this game for TEN, I suggest you look it up. I've NEVER seen anything like it. Marino, Favre, Elway - none of them. This game was ALL Vince. This was GOTY last year IMO (not including playoffs).

15 Sun, Dec 17 Jacksonville 24-17 W. JAX MAULED TEN the last time they faced each other. Granted Vince threw for 85 yards and 0 picks - they had no rushing attack that day, as Young had 4 and Henry had a WHOPPING 37. I don't recall that game, though. They DID win, though.

16 Sun, Dec 24 @ Buffalo W 30-29. Young sparked the team with 10 4th quarter points and the D held server for the win. Vince ran for 61 and a TD, while tossing for 183 and 2 TDs.

17 Sun, Dec 31 New England L 23-40. Not much to speak of here. Ten stunk it up just enough to blow a playoff spot. Not a devastating loss so much as NE ran away with it in the 2nd half. Young threw 2 critical INTS.

Ok - so for 2006 here is his W/L: 8-5 as a starter. 2 of those games were close... 3 or 4 he won on his own... As a rookie.

Ya know what? That's all the info I need to see. F this year. I know he's taken a step back, or so to speak.
But black QBs not winning? As a rookie he went 8-5 - including wins over playoff teams. I realize football is a team sport, but how many did he will that team to victory? How many? More than the top half of 'QBs' yardage wise in the league, EASILY.


Also, no one jokingly says anything about 'black QBs not being able to win in the NFL'. That's not the same thing as 'white men can't jump'. What you are saying is more akin to "white guys can't play basketball", to me.

As for your CFL comments, I realize I'm ignorant mostly of the CFL, however - Doug Flutie seemed real white to me. And Marino is one of the best QBs to ever live. The cream always rises to the top. The black QBs that went to Canada are probably victims of the system or didn't have arms that coaches wanted. Arm strength is over-rated in the NFL and a lot of black QBs were probably victim to the racial profiling that went on for sooo many years. How long did it take for Warren Moon to get to the NFL? Too f'n long.

I don't care about the penis thing, to be honest. If size is all that makes you a man, then we're all f'd... It also questions the morality and character of a person. It's also a myth.