[ABEHONEST]

Do you ever see a situation such as this, where sports voter's/writer's simply do not know the trade that bears their name?
Look at what we see as the very top QB's to ever throw a pass in the pro football leagues.

You have to consider those horrible knee injuries Namath had and cannot just dismiss his greatness because it no doubt cost him another SB or two.
My opinion and what about yours?
[IMG]http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/18581054/greatest-quarterbacks-all-ranking-johnWhen Tom Brady and the New England Patriots came away with a last-second victory over the Seattle Seahawks in Super Bowl XLIX, I was ready to proclaim Brady the greatest quarterback of all time.

That win made him 4-2 in Super Bowls. Brady, Joe Montana and Terry Bradshaw are the only quarterbacks to win four Super Bowl titles. Though Montana and Bradshaw both went undefeated in Super Bowls, I'm still giving Brady the No. 1 spot.

EDITOR'S PICKS

Ranking Tom Brady's top 10 playoff performances
Super Bowl LI will be the 34th playoff start for Tom Brady. Here's a look at some memorable performances for the New England Patriots quarterback.


Ranking Super Bowl-winning coaches: Is Belichick best ever?
Patriots coach Bill Belichick could get his fifth championship soon, cementing his case among the best all time. From 1 to 31, John Clayton ranks every coach who has won a Super Bowl.


Ranking all 50 Super Bowl MVPs
The Super Bowl MVP winners are an eclectic bunch: 20 quarterbacks, 10 defenders, 7 running backs, 6 wide receivers and, yes, 1 return specialist. Here's how their MVP performances stack up against each other.

The fact that Brady is about to play in Super Bowl LI -- his seventh Super Bowl appearance -- is remarkable, especially after missing the first four games of the season because of his Deflategate suspension. On Sunday, Brady has a great chance to get his fifth Lombardi trophy and fourth Super Bowl MVP award. He's 183-52 as a starter in the regular season. His 24 playoff wins are the most ever.

And the amazing part is that no one can guess when he will stop. Brady, who will turn 40 before next season, would like to play four or five more years if his body can hold up. There is nothing in his game that shows a decline. He came out of the four-game suspension rested and focused. He threw 28 touchdowns passes and only two interceptions in 12 games. And he did it mostly without injured tight end Rob Gronkowski, who played only eight games and had just three touchdown catches.

Brady is 39, and his numbers are getting better, not worse. Over the past four years, his yards per attempt have increased from 6.9 in 2013 to 7.1 to 7.6 to 8.2 this season. His interceptions have dropped from 11 in 2013 to nine to seven to two. His passer rating has improved each year, and he's staying healthy.

So Brady is my pick for the GOAT. Here's the rest of my list of the top 15 quarterbacks in pro football history:

Note: An asterisk after a Super Bowl title denotes a Super Bowl MVP award, and I'm going by The Associated Press for the tally of regular-season MVPs.

2. Joe Montana
Regular-season record: 117-47 | Regular-season MVPs: 1989, 1990

Super Bowl titles: XVI*, XIX*, XXIII, XXIV*

San Francisco 49ers coach Bill Walsh was ahead of his time. He helped turn a game fixed on running the football and playing stout defense into a sophisticated chess match in which receivers and pass-catching running backs ruled the day. Montana was the perfect quarterback to move the pieces. Montana won four Super Bowl rings -- and never threw an interception in those games -- and showed the NFL you can win championships through the air.


Peyton Manning won one title apiece with the Colts and Broncos. Roberto Schmidt/AFP/Getty Images
3. Peyton Manning
Regular-season record: 186-79 | Regular-season MVPs: 2003, 2004, 2008, 2009, 2013

Super Bowl titles: XLI*, 50

Manning was the Johnny Unitas of his era. He mastered the fourth-quarter comeback, and the two-minute drive was his specialty. More than anything else, however, he came into the NFL in the late 1990s when quarterback play was down and turned the NFL into a quarterback-driven league. Though he didn't look great in his final year in 2015, Manning did enough in Super Bowl 50 to get his second Super Bowl ring in four trips and slip past Unitas into third place.

4. Johnny Unitas
Regular-season record: 118-63-4 | Regular-season MVPs: 1959, 1964, 1967

Super Bowl titles: V (also won NFL titles in 1958, 1959)

What Brady and Manning were doing in the 2000s, Unitas was doing in the 1950s and 1960s. Unitas mastered the fourth-quarter drive, marching his Baltimore Colts offenses up and down the field to mount comebacks and pick up great wins. With his crew cut and funny-looking shoes, Unitas was the ultimate field general.

5. Otto Graham
Regular-season record: 57-13-1 | Regular-season MVPs: 1951, 1953, 1955

NFL titles: 1950, 1954, 1955

A former running back in a wing-T offense, Graham was a great passer in the 1940s and 1950s when everyone else was running the ball. He guided the Cleveland Browns to four AAFC championships before they joined the NFL in 1950.


John Elway had a 14-7 career record in the playoffs, throwing 27 touchdown passes and 21 interceptions. AP Photo/John Gaps III
6. John Elway
Regular-season record: 148-82-1 | Regular-season MVPs: 1987

Super Bowl titles: XXXII, XXXIII*

Elway was perhaps the most talented of the great class of quarterbacks in the 1983 draft. He was so good that he would take above-average Denver Broncos teams to Super Bowls, even though it took him 15 years to get his first Super Bowl title. He closed his career in the best way -- back-to-back titles.

7. Brett Favre
Regular-season record: 186-112 | Regular-season MVPs: 1995, 1996, 1997

Super Bowl titles: XXXI

A Green Bay Packers team doctor failed Favre on a physical when the Packers traded for him, and then he became the iron man of the sport, starting an NFL-record 297 straight regular-season games. He was a gunslinger who was willing to take chances -- but they didn't always turn out well, as he's the NFL's career leader in interceptions (336).

8. Dan Marino
Regular-season record: 147-93 | Regular-season MVPs: 1984

Marino had one of the best arms in the history of the league. His release was so fast that defenses had trouble sacking him. Unfortunately, Marino didn't have enough of a running game behind him to get to more than one Super Bowl. For 17 years, though, he wowed the NFL.

9. Terry Bradshaw
Regular-season record: 107-51 | Regular-season MVPs: 1978

Super Bowl titles: IX, X, XIII*, XIV*

The Steelers had the Steel Curtain defense, but Bradshaw was the closer for their dynasty. He always came through in the playoffs, helping Pittsburgh win four titles in six years. As the Curtain started slowing down in its final years, Bradshaw got stronger and helped win games with the offense.


Aaron Rodgers won his first and only Super Bowl title in 2010 when the Packers topped the Steelers. Timothy A. Clary/AFP/Getty Images
10. Aaron Rodgers
Regular-season record: 90-45 | Regular-season MVPs: 2011, 2014

Super Bowl titles: XLV*

Rodgers has a rifle for an arm. Over the past year, he hit on three Hail Mary throws. Incredible. His third-and-20 pass to Jared Cook in the fourth quarter of the 2016 NFC divisional-round game against Dallas was one of the greatest throws in playoff history. It's a shame he has only one Super Bowl ring, but he's only 33 years old.

11. Bart Starr
Regular-season record: 94-57-6 | Regular-season MVPs: 1966

Super Bowl titles: I*, II* (also won NFL titles in 1961, 1962, 1965)

Starr was the perfect leader and quarterback for Vince Lombardi's dynasty with the Packers. Lombardi was a no-nonsense coach who won with a running offense and great execution. Starr was the field general who made plays down the stretch in big games.

12. Steve Young
Regular-season record: 94-49 | Regular-season MVPs: 1992, 1994

Super Bowl titles: XXIII, XXIV, XXIX* (Young backed up Montana in the first two)

The 49ers made the move from Montana to Young and stayed at the dynasty level. Young was much different from Montana -- he was more of a running quarterback who evolved into one of the most efficient QBs in NFL history. His quarterback rating was well over 100 in six of his final nine seasons.

13. Jim Kelly
Regular-season record: 101-59

Former Penn State coach Joe Paterno wanted Kelly to play linebacker for the Nittany Lions. It's a good thing Kelly went to Miami (Florida) to play quarterback. Kelly, who never won a regular-season MVP, was one of the league's toughest signal-callers. His brain moved much faster than his legs. He ran the Bills' no-huddle K-Gun offense, which was several years ahead of the rest of the NFL, and went to four consecutive Super Bowls from 1990 to 1993.

14. Roger Staubach
Regular-season record: 85-29 | Super Bowl titles: VI*, XII

After Staubach took over the Cowboys' job in 1971, they were annual championship contenders. He led the league in passer rating four times. He makes this list over fellow Cowboys quarterback Troy Aikman, whom I have just outside the top 15.

15. Fran Tarkenton
Regular-season record: 124-109-6 | Regular-season MVPs: 1975

Tarkenton was the ultimate running quarterback. He rushed for 3,674 yards in his 18-year career, and his scrambling ability made him one of the most exciting quarterbacks to ever play the game. He was only 6-0 and 190 pounds, but his escapability made him stand tall among the league's best signal-callers.

-clayton-picks-tom-brady-new-england-patriots-best-nfl-qb-ever[/IMG]

* When Bear stated Namath was his all-time greatest athlete, he knew what he was talking about.

[shadymcgrady]

This list is trash

[ABEHONEST]

This list is trash

Pussboy? Or, do you have a better informative opinion?

[grease lightnin]

Comparing qb’s from the 50’s doesn’t make sense.

Entirely different ball game.

[shadymcgrady]

What are you talking here abe? Overall? Superbowls?

Your descriptions jump from one crutch to another and back again like doc brown and Marty mcfly in back to the future

You're worse than a female prosecutor on the rag in the midst of a custody battle

Brady barely top 10, belicheat is the mastermind and genius behind him. Once you had him ranked 1 I stopped reading, lost all credibility

Belicheat went 15-5 with guys like Matt cassel and Jeanine garrafalos brother

[grease lightnin]

What are you talking here abe? Overall? Superbowls?

Your descriptions jump from one crutch to another and back again like doc brown and Marty mcfly in back to the future

You're worse than a female prosecutor on the rag in the midst of a custody battle

Brady barely top 10, belicheat is the mastermind and genius behind him. Once you had him ranked 1 I stopped reading, lost all credibility

Belicheat went 15-5 with guys like Matt cassel and Jeanine garrafalos brother

That list is from ESPN

It is not Abe’s list.

[shadymcgrady]

Greaser, you know the game I'm playing here

[DOM-Ganador]

[QUOTE=shadymcgrady;27528047] Brady barely top 10.

You are the best Shady. Incredible insight.

[shadymcgrady]

Dom, I'd take Steve young over brady. That ones for BG as well

[ABEHONEST]

Comparing qb’s from the 50’s doesn’t make sense.

Entirely different ball game.

We agree. Good for the Grease kid.

[ABEHONEST]

Dom, I'd take Steve young over brady. That ones for BG as well

Your personal sport's skills are being wasted here...I mean the lack of. You'd make a better fit for the role of "Joker," in a Batman flick.

[DOM-Ganador]

Dom, I'd take Steve young over brady. That ones for BG as well

There is certainly an argument for quite a few guys that somebody would rather have than TB.
Steve Young. Sure. AR. Of course.

But when it comes to mental toughness and competitiveness, to me, it is toss up between Montana and Brady.
Nobody else comes close.

[shadymcgrady]

Your personal sport's skills are being wasted here...I mean the lack of. You'd make a better fit for the role of "Joker," in a Batman flick.

How does dunking a basketball or lifting heavy weights translate to gambling forums abe?

Joker has an off the charts genius IQ, I could only wish I had that

[stevenash]

Here's the list of the GOAT

TB12
Joe Cool
Everybody else

[ABEHONEST]

Didn't slick and brainy Bob Griese go for 2 for 2 in SB finals? Get him in the top 10.*Add, an undefeated season.
Unitas? Too beat up and non-athletic while surrounded by great players.

Brady/Montana and going downward: All these were too close too call but do make my top ten. Manning--Starr--Favre--Staubach--Griese--Bradshaw--Namath.
To me, winning the big-one's gather's in a ton of credibility.

[Rich Boy]

Brady the GOAT and will prove it once again this year

[ABEHONEST]

Brady the GOAT and will prove it once again this year

Another huge factor: What caliber teammates did these SB winner's have?
Namath may have had these least talented of my candidates?
TB? No way and not close.

Look closer before you dismiss the top 10/15 of all-time.

[stevenash]

Dom, I'd take Steve young over brady. That ones for BG as well

I'd take Montana over Young (barely)

OK, getting back on topic here, kudo's to Namath for his famous prediction, having said that Namath was extremly overrated.
He was a chucker, no doubt, but he played in that AFL where the talent level back then was bad.
For a notorious passer, and like I said he was a chucker, he only threw 173 TD passes, and got picked 220 times.
Sorry, 220 INT's vs. 173 TD's is patthetic, his QB rating was a horrible 60 something.
Take away that SB win, what has Namath ever done?

In his era I'll take Sonny Jerguson, Len Dawson, and Staubach all day and all night.

[Jimmy Proffett]

The list looks pretty good to me, maybe Staubach should be higher.

Namath shouldn't even sniff the Top 30. You can't project a player's future by playing the "If they didn't have injuries" game. Otherwise let's put Greg Cook in the Top 5

[ABEHONEST]

I'd take Montana over Young (barely)

OK, getting back on topic here, kudo's to Namath for his famous prediction, having said that Namath was extremly overrated.
He was a chucker, no doubt, but he played in that AFL where the talent level back then was bad.
For a notorious passer, and like I said he was a chucker, he only threw 173 TD passes, and got picked 220 times.
Sorry, 220 INT's vs. 173 TD's is patthetic, his QB rating was a horrible 60 something.
Take away that SB win, what has Namath ever done?

In his era I'll take Sonny Jerguson, Len Dawson, and Staubach all day and all night.

Looks as if you completely dismiss his tragic knee injuries? Shame. He played until he could barely walk off the field after the game was over.

[BriGuy]

Do you ever see a situation such as this, where sports voter's/writer's simply do not know the trade that bears their name?
Look at what we see as the very top QB's to ever throw a pass in the pro football leagues.

You have to consider those horrible knee injuries Namath had and cannot just dismiss his greatness because it no doubt cost him another SB or two.

No, you don't have to consider those. When discussing the GOAT, you have to look at what every player actually did, not what they "could've should've" done. The second you start making things up out of thin air, you've already lost the argument.

My opinion and what about yours?

No opinion, just fact: Joe Namath was a mediocre quarterback who threw 50 more INT's than TD's.

[jtoler]

Some of those teams won in spite of the qbs on that list. Their stats such as td/int is bad or average.

[19th Hole]

Along with Dom and Nash...I 3rd the 1A Brady 1B Montana ,1A Montana 1B Brady
selections
Everyone else falls to the back of the line.


*Special mention for Favre



**WTF is going on with that Shadymcgrady? Is that guy drinking bleach??

[The Kraken]

Any list that doesn't include Troy Aikman, Michael Irvin, Emmitt Smith and Jay Novacek in the top 5 is a bunch of shit. You guys can fight over who # 5 is

[jtoler]

Super Bowl 3 was fixed anyway wasnt it?

[BriGuy]

What are you talking here abe? Overall? Superbowls?

Your descriptions jump from one crutch to another and back again like doc brown and Marty mcfly in back to the future

You're worse than a female prosecutor on the rag in the midst of a custody battle

Brady barely top 10, belicheat is the mastermind and genius behind him. Once you had him ranked 1 I stopped reading, lost all credibility

Belicheat went 15-5 with guys like Matt cassel and Jeanine garrafalos brother

You're cherry picking stats. Bill Belichick is a career sub-.500 HC, with 1 single playoff win, without Brady. He was 5-13 in New England when Bledsoe got injured, then they went 14-3 the rest of that season (including SB36). You couldn't imagine a more drastic overnight turnaround.

It's amazing how much smarter of a coach Bill Belichick became once Brady went under center. Night and day.

[stevenash]

Didn't slick and brainy Bob Griese go for 2 for 2 in SB finals? Get him in the top 10.*Add, an undefeated season.
Unitas? Too beat up and non-athletic while surrounded by great players.

Brady/Montana and going downward: All these were too close too call but do make my top ten. Manning--Starr--Favre--Staubach--Griese--Bradshaw--Namath.
To me, winning the big-one's gather's in a ton of credibility.

Watch this drive, some of those throws were darts with virtually no window.

Comparing Namath to Montana is ludicrous.

[ABEHONEST]

Read if you dare and never dismiss Namath as one of the greatest QB's of all-time.
........................................ .Joe, "Joe-Wille" Namath
(1943- ) was the quarterback of the University of Alabama football team from 1962 until 1964, and for the New York Jets from 1965 until 1976. He helped redefine the quarterback position so that long passes and split-second deciphering of defenses became a professional norm. As a brash and witty star, he likewise helped elevate the public's image of football players. While Namath would be famous for his record-setting collegiate career at the University of Alabama, he is best remembered for his bold and accurate prediction that his New York Jets would defeat the Baltimore Colts in the third Super Bowl, regarded as one of the greatest upsets in sports history.
Joseph William Namath was born in Beaver Falls, Pennsylvania, near Pittsburgh on May 31, 1943. He was the fourth of four brothers and had an adopted sister. His father John was a steel-worker. Namath's grandfather was a Hungarian immigrant whose family name, Nemet, was changed to Namath on his 1911 arrival to America. Joe Namath began his football career as a skinny but successful replacement for an injured teammate in the ninth grade. In his high school senior year in 1960 he led the Beaver Falls Tigers to a state championship. In his senior year of high school, Namath was signed to a football scholarship by the University of Maryland but failed to score high enough on his college board tests. The University of Alabama football program became aware of Namath's availability and quickly sent a representative to Pennsylvania to sign Namath, who was also considering signing with baseball's Chicago Cubs. At the University of Alabama Namath played for legendary coach Paul "Bear" Bryant, starting in his sophomore year of 1962. He transformed his middle name to "Willie" because he thought the name befitted an Alabama quarterback, and the nickname stuck. Bryant, whose specialty at the time was in commanding game-winning intensity from players who may have had modest talent, said Namath was the best athlete he had ever seen. In three years as quarterback, Namath led the Crimson Tide to a 29–4 record, including three bowl appearances. In those years Alabama defeated the University of Oklahoma 17-6 in the 1963 Orange Bowl and the University of Mississippi 12-7 in the Sugar Bowl. The Crimson Tide lost to the University of Texas 21-17 in the Orange Bowl, but the team was still crowned national champion.
Namath notoriously missed the Sugar Bowl for violating curfews during his junior year after being suspended by Bryant, who valued team discipline above all else. Namath later affirmed the suspension as the right thing for Bryant to have done. A knee injury in his senior year prevented Namath from starting in the Orange Bowl against Texas, although he was voted most valuable player of the game, based on less than three quarters of play. Namath set single season records in his first year as a starter, and by the time he left, he had set University of Alabama records for pass attempts, completions, yardage, and touchdowns. Namath lacked enough credit hours to graduate in 1965, but he returned to the University of Alabama in 2006, and graduated with a Bachelor of Arts degree in December 2007.
As a pro, Namath was at the center of changes that popularized professional football and its championship games. In 1965 he was signed to the New York Jets by owner Sonny Werblin, a former Hollywood television producer, for a then-record $427,000 over three years. Thus Namath became "Broadway Joe." At the time the Jets were a mediocre team in the relatively new American Football League (AFL), and their signing of Namath and the AFL's lucrative deals with NBC to broadcast AFL games helped transform the AFL from an upstart to a serious National Football League rival.

Namath and Bryant
To end bidding wars for collegiate players like Namath, the NFL arranged in 1965 to begin a yearly interleague championship game called the Super Bowl in 1967 and to merge with the AFL in 1970. The first two Super Bowls were not yet the national phenomenon they later became, but that began to change in January 1969 when Namath guaranteed that the Jets would defeat the Baltimore Colts in Super Bowl III. His bravado called attention to a game in which the Jets were predicted by oddsmakers to lose by three touchdowns. Namath and the Jets' defense dominated the game, and the Jets won 16-7, shocking the Colts and the football establishment. Namath was voted the game's most valuable player. Largely due to this victory by an AFL team, the merger of the AFL and NFL the following year was seen as one of compelling equals.
Namath earned many accolades as a pro and in the 1967 season became the first quarterback to pass for more than 4,000 yards, a record that lasted for more than a decade. Television commentator and former Oakland Raider coach John Madden said that Namath had the best-looking drop, release, and pass that he had ever seen.
By the middle of his professional career, Namath was almost as famous for his physical calamities as for his on-field successes. He seriously injured his right knee while he was with the Crimson Tide, and knee injuries plagued his career with the Jets. A broken wrist sidelined him most of the 1970 season, a left knee injury seriously compromised his play in 1971, and a separated shoulder kept him out of many games in 1973. Namath was fiercely competitive, however, and had a high tolerance for pain. He had played much of the 1968 AFL championship game against the Oakland Raiders with a concussion and a dislocated finger on his non-throwing hand. The surgeon who repaired Namath's knee when he joined the Jets in 1965 estimated that he could play for four years; he played for 13, leaving the Jets to play the 1977 season with the Los Angeles Rams.
Namath was famous not only for the long arcs of his passes but for a personal style rarely associated with football players. In the Jets' championship season of 1968, he wore white cleats, long hair, a "Fu Manchu" mustache, and occasionally, even on the sidelines, a mink coat. He appeared in advertisements that occasionally made fun of his image as a playboy, including one for pantyhose. He made a foray into acting, but later screen appearances, apart from a brief TV series in the 1970s, have usually been related to football, and often to the Jets. In 1985 Namath was inducted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame and was a member of the Monday Night Football broadcast team. He was married in 1984 to Deborah Lynn Mays (they were divorced in 1999), with whom he had two daughters. He currently lives in Florida.

[The Kraken]

You're cherry picking stats. Bill Belichick is a career sub-.500 HC, with 1 single playoff win, without Brady. He was 5-13 in New England when Bledsoe got injured, then they went 14-3 the rest of that season (including SB36). You couldn't imagine a more drastic overnight turnaround.

It's amazing how much smarter of a coach Bill Belichick became once Brady went under center. Night and day.

And Phil was nothing without Jordan, Poppi without Duncan, Kerr without Curry, etc....
d
Great coaches need great players to win, yet average coaches lose with great players all the time.

Coaches never get credit, only blame when something goes wrong. When everything goes right, the star players get the credit.

Just the way it goes

[stevenash]

Looks as if you completely dismiss his tragic knee injuries? Shame. He played until he could barely walk off the field after the game was over.

Mantle has tragic knee injuries too.
Sorry your 'what if' game here doesn't wash.

[ABEHONEST]

Mantle has tragic knee injuries too.
Sorry your 'what if' game here doesn't wash.

Look at the records closed mind-one. You cannot dismiss that.
Just curious, how many star NFL QB's won a national collegiate title? And how many did they start at QB?

[stevenash]

The list looks pretty good to me, maybe Staubach should be higher.

Namath shouldn't even sniff the Top 30. You can't project a player's future by playing the "If they didn't have injuries" game. Otherwise let's put Greg Cook in the Top 5

To further your point, virtually every NFL player has knee problems, or other assorted injuries.
Yes, Namath shouldn't even sniff the top 30.

How many rings does Montana have?
Brady, how many?

Namath has how many?

/end thread

[stevenash]

Look at the records closed mind-one. You cannot dismiss that.
Just curious, how many star NFL QB's won a national collegiate title? And how many did they start at QB?

We are not talking NCAA here, and what records are you talking about, if you mean one of the worst interceptions to touch down ratios I am not worthy.

Now you're just being a) a troll b) an idiot or c) ignorant.

Enjoy the games today, my work here is done.

[shadymcgrady]

Joe Namath was a lucky bum whose legacy will be hitting on Suzy kolber drunk out of his mind for everyone to see

[ABEHONEST]

To further your point, virtually every NFL player has knee problems, or other assorted injuries.
Yes, Namath shouldn't even sniff the top 30.

How many rings does Montana have?
Brady, how many?

Namath has how many?

/end thread

Ha, ha. You're impossible so I'll pretend you made some real solid sport's opinions, while using solid logic.
Pretending as you gloat..........