[Seaweed]

Sports, and NFL in particular are fixed. There is too much money in it for it not to be. We need to accept that at times in the year there will be fixing. There is nothing we can do about it. Part of the gamble is hoping the game isn't fixed, or if it is, that you are on the right side. We need to stop complaining and accept it as a reality. I watched the replay 35 times, and when the final catch was made, the one official with his hands signalling a touchdown gave the other official a signal by blowing his whistle three times. Instead of talking it over with the black official, the white official cut the black guy off to make the call. Not only was this game fixed, but it also indicated racism in the NFL and in this case the egocentricity of the white ref taking charge on the call, even though the black ref was closer to the play.

[NYSportsGuy210]

Dude....please stop posting.

[hitthew8room]

so they orchestrated that final play? thats some amazing acting and it only took 1 take!

[GamblerSpirit]

Dude....please stop posting.

This guy is definitely on something....or onto something? The black ref was the one standing right over the top of the two players, had the better perspective and starting waving his hands up high as in to show it's a TOUCHBACK! While the other white ref standing to his side was signaling TOUCHDOWN! Very shady shit.

[Optional]

Just like a girlfriend that is constantly suspicious of you cheating is really just telling you that they know they can't be trusted, only people who know they would be involved in fixing themselves if in the position can't accept the officials are honest.

[Seaweed]

This guy is definitely on something....or onto something? The black ref was the one standing right over the top of the two players, had the better perspective and starting waving his hands up high as in to show it's a TOUCHBACK! While the other white ref standing to his side was signaling TOUCHDOWN! Very shady shit.

exactly

[Rich Boy]

So I guess GB backers should handicap the race of officials next time?

Damn, gotta hope the black guy makes the wrong call next time so they reverse it... lol

[Ernie Mccracken]

Those refs are like the Michael Jordan of reffing compared to you and your ability to make quality threads.

[Mikail]

you was making some sense until you started with the racism allegation. lol

[Shafted69]

Sports, and NFL in particular are fixed. There is too much money in it for it not to be. We need to accept that at times in the year there will be fixing. There is nothing we can do about it. Part of the gamble is hoping the game isn't fixed, or if it is, that you are on the right side. We need to stop complaining and accept it as a reality. I watched the replay 35 times, and when the final catch was made, the one official with his hands signalling a touchdown gave the other official a signal by blowing his whistle three times. Instead of talking it over with the black official, the white official cut the black guy off to make the call. Not only was this game fixed, but it also indicated racism in the NFL and in this case the egocentricity of the white ref taking charge on the call, even though the black ref was closer to the play.

classic case of the man tryin to hold a brotha down. lol

[Seaweed]

classic case of the man tryin to hold a brotha down. lol

exactly

[Seaweed]

So I guess GB backers should handicap the race of officials next time?

Damn, gotta hope the black guy makes the wrong call next time so they reverse it... lol

Sadly, its plays a part.

[shooms79]

So your the guy washing my windshield at the corner w the tin foil hat screaming chestnuts are lazy. Nice to put a name with a face.

[R.P. McMurphy]

Guys there is too much money in this business and where you're dealing with $ on this level there will always be corruption. Many people (officials/players) have been caught over the years and it does happen. Not sure what is going on with these lingerie bowl zebras the NFL has acquired. However for now it's safe to say they do play to the home crowd with alot of these terrible or ghost calls being made at critical moments.

[dante1]

Please with these fixed NFL games, of course it can happen but the reasons you guys are giving are not legit. Too much money is the exact reason it probably doesn't happen. First, who are you going to buy to fix a NFL game, maybe the qb. So how much money are you going to pay a top notch qb to throw a game. $50,000 lol, maybe 200,000, lol again. First of all these guys earn too much money to be bought for the money that a hood or even the mafia would and could come up with. Before they would pay a qb 200,000 to throw a game they will buy 200,000 of pure heroin and make 20,000,000. It is a risk/gamble type situation.

Next, three guys can keep a secret if two are dead. If there is huge cheating in the NFL people would talk. When retired or on their death bed people involved in such bs would be talking. How much talking have you heard about it from past NFL players. Basically none.

Next, the NFL is being proactive with new and improved techniques to make sure bad calls are avoided. So getting to the refs is now next to impossible. Oh, I know you guys will bring up these replacement refs and there is no doubt they are horrendous but that is incompetence not fixing games. That is so very obvious, they miss personal fouls and huge personal fouls like leading with the head, they are out of their league both figuratively and actually.

Way too difficult to fix a NFL game today and it just isn't happening to any degree worth discussing.

[OTL]

Way too difficult to fix a NFL game today and it just isn't happening to any degree worth discussing.

Disagree completely. In the NFL referees can influence the outcome of games very easily. All it takes is one call, as we saw last night. These replacement officials only make $3000 per game, and there was an estimated $500 million wagered on last night's action, 75% of which was on the Packers. You can't say there wasn't enough money in play to pay off these scrub replacement officials, or that the incentive isn't there for them to fix games. These guys know their days are numbered, and will take whatever they can get before they have to hit the unemployment line.

[R.P. McMurphy]

Dante you think too much $ is the reason they are not fixed lol? How do you think organized crime works? Syndicates (mainly Italian) from the glory days of the mob have ran vegas, controlled unions, politicians been bought and on and on. Don't underestimate the power of corruption!

[R.P. McMurphy]

Don't get me wrong I'm not some paranoid conspiracy nut saying all games are fixed or anything that would be ridiculous. But so is saying it CANNOT happen in a game here and there with someone greasing the wheels in a particular game at times.

[dante1]

Dante you think too much $ is the reason they are not fixed lol? How do you think organized crime works? Syndicates (mainly Italian) from the glory days of the mob have ran vegas, controlled unions, politicians been bought and on and on. Don't underestimate the power of corruption!

Agree, but a little thing came around called RICO and that ended that. Mafia still doing crime but not like the glory days. Listen you are a mafia captain and you have some money to invest in crime. What is the safer bet tossing that money into a fixed game in which anything can happen because humans beings fck up or buying a shit load of pure heroin and guaranteeing yourself a much higher return? It is just common sense.

Also yes ref's can fix games but anybody that thinks that game was fixed has to be out of their mind. Bad calls, absolutely but bad calls on both sides. Now think about this, that game is fixed and they wait until the very last play of the game to make it come out right. Does that make sense to you? Any sense at all, think about it for a second. If I am a ref and going to fix a game I certainly wouldn't wait until the last hail mary pass to make that call. Makes no sense at all. none.

[dante1]

Also think about this, if that last play didn't happen the way it did today we would have people claiming the game was fixed for GB to cover. Am I right?

And how about this for another scenario. The game was fixed and GB was supposed to win because of all the bad calls against Seattle. The guy who called the TD for seattle was one of the refs not in on the fix. Do you get my point, it is too difficult to have control of a game to fix it. You need a bunch of refs and you probably need them all. It just is too damn difficult.

[OTL]

Agree, but a little thing came around called RICO and that ended that. Mafia still doing crime but not like the glory days. Listen you are a mafia captain and you have some money to invest in crime. What is the safer bet tossing that money into a fixed game in which anything can happen because humans beings fck up or buying a shit load of pure heroin and guaranteeing yourself a much higher return? It is just common sense.

Common sense to potentially get life in prison for drug-related trafficking and conspiracy charges, versus fixing a game with minimal risk of a fine? Has there ever been a person criminally prosecuted for fixing sporting events? Not to my knowledge. The risk/reward ratio is off the charts.

[R.P. McMurphy]

Rico laws have not ended organized crime Dante. You may not here of them as much these days but the Italians are still working. Along with Russian, Asian, and other syndicates who are taking over. Since when has passing laws stopped criminal minds?

[Easy-Rider 66]

As the Leader of Seaweed Nation it is incumbent on you to incorporate the possibilty that the game is fixed in your handicapping model and to determine which side the fix is on. That is if you really believe the premise you made. GL.

[dante1]

Rico laws have not ended organized crime Dante. You may not here of them as much these days but the Italians are still working. Along with Russian, Asian, and other syndicates who are taking over. Since when has passing laws stopped criminal minds?

Of course but the Mafia at least the Italian mafia is in a shambles. They are only a shadow of their old self. RICO didn't end the mafia but it certainly put most of the big wigs behind bars. Compared to the 50 and 60's the mafia is small potatoes. Never ever get rid of organized crime but law enforcement has more tools better tools and eventually they get nailed. Law enforcement only needs to win one big battle to end a conspiracy and they are doing that, will they win every one no never but organized crime is definitely on the defensive.


However we are off topic. I gave reasons why I believe fixing games is not a huge priority to organized crime. They just don't see the benefit vs the risks and the money needed to pull it off. Just look at drug smuggling and production it is by far the biggest crime being perpetrated today and why because the pay off far exceeds the risk. Yes, they risk alot but is it stopping them, no not even close. But, that argument is for another scenario.

Also guys if games were being fixed it would come out. These things always come out. Take for instance the famous black sox scandal. That crime was perpetrated by supposedly one of the best criminals of his time. Why was he caught because too many people involved. That is a huge reason game fixing is difficult and not being done. Why not too long ago only two players on a basketball team, I think it was BC were caught fixing games, only two players and they got caught. Now IMO there is a sport that is much easier to fix because you only need one or two players but these are kids and they are being watched carefully. Criminals have many more outs for crime, they won't waste time on something they have little control of. My opinion, and you have yours of course.

[NYSportsGuy210]

Dante1 -

You're an intelligent, rational and sane person. Why are you even engaging in a semi intellectual conversation with these idiots?

This is SBR dude!

[OTL]

However we are off topic. I gave reasons why I believe fixing games is not a huge priority to organized crime. They just don't see the benefit vs the risks and the money needed to pull it off. Just look at drug smuggling and production it is by far the biggest crime being perpetrated today and why because the pay off far exceeds the risk. Yes, they risk alot but is it stopping them, no not even close. But, that argument is for another scenario.

You are very naive Dante if you believe the risk/reward for producing and trafficking drugs is greater than the same for fixing sporting events. I have inside knowledge of the former, and you won't find a single inmate doing a long stretch for drug-related charges who agrees with you.

Bookmaking is still one of the mafia's biggest rackets. Did you know that in New York alone, bookies with mafia ties took in an estimated $1 billion in wagers on last year's Super Bowl? You're crazy if you think the mob can't raise the capital to fix games.

[dante1]

You are very naive Dante if you believe the risk/reward for producing and trafficking drugs is greater than the same for fixing sporting events. I have inside knowledge of the former, and you won't find a single inmate doing a long stretch for drug-related charges who agrees with you.

Bookmaking is still one of the mafia's biggest rackets. Did you know that in New York alone, bookies with mafia ties took in an estimated $1 billion in wagers on last year's Super Bowl? You're crazy if you think the mob can't raise the capital to fix games.

Huge difference between book making and fixing games my friend.


Don't any of these fixed games come out in the public? Please.

[OTL]

Huge difference between book making and fixing games my friend.

I never said they were one and the same, but the two definitely do go hand in hand.

[Holtgetsback]

A lot of losing gamblers crying fix. What else is new.

If you're gonna fix a game you don't wait for a hail mary with 0s on the clock on MNF

you do a game out of the public eye and set the tone early

[dante1]

A lot of losing gamblers crying fix. What else is new.

If you're gonna fix a game you don't wait for a hail mary with 0s on the clock on MNF

you do a game out of the public eye and set the tone early

Exactly, my point exactly. If you think that you are a little well crazy and I hate to say that but guys come on, it makes no sense.

I gave two or three very valid reasons why I believe very few games are fixed. Here is one more. If a ton of games are being fixed they would come out, some would be discovered and that is a fact beyond question. The very fact that almost none are being discovered is proof that very few are being fixed, especially in the NFL which I believe is the most difficult sport to fix. The mafia has dozens of crime outs for them to put substantial money in fixing games just makes no sense. None at all.

[Filmoz]

Last night was pretty terrible, and I really would like to believe it wasn't a fix, but was rather ineptitude that was biased toward home calls based on the refs being nervous on the big stage. But if you look at it, it was pretty bad and pretty suspicious. It wasn't just the last play, which in itself included two bad calls. There was the pass interference call that not only wasn't defensive pass interference, but should have been offensive pass interference that backed the Seahawks up rather than advanced them. Then there was the bs roughing-the-passer call that nullified a turnover that would have basically sealed the game. And none of these were subjective calls. They were calls that 100% of objective observers would agree were wrong.

And to all you people saying fixes don't happen because it would require too much sophistication to orchestrate, and buying the referees wouldn't guarantee victory, etc, are missing the point. It is not about guaranteeing that a certain bet will win, although that would be the ideal result. It is about increasing your chances to the point where it is worth it to risk it. If you had some magical system in blackjack where you could see the dealer's hole card every hand, it wouldn't guarantee that you would win. The dealer is still gonna pull the 5 onto their 16 every once in a while, and you are still gonna bust some hands too. But it would put your long-term odds well into the 60-80% range, and you would therefore keep playing because the math makes sense. If you could buy officials to make calls that favor one team over the other, such that one team is getting a cumulative advantage over the course of the game, and thereby increasing the chances that they cover, you would do it even though it doesn't guarantee a win every game.

[dante1]

Last night was pretty terrible, and I really would like to believe it wasn't a fix, but was rather ineptitude that was biased toward home calls based on the refs being nervous on the big stage. But if you look at it, it was pretty bad and pretty suspicious. It wasn't just the last play, which in itself included two bad calls. There was the pass interference call that not only wasn't defensive pass interference, but should have been offensive pass interference that backed the Seahawks up rather than advanced them. Then there was the bs roughing-the-passer call that nullified a turnover that would have basically sealed the game. And none of these were subjective calls. They were calls that 100% of objective observers would agree were wrong.

And to all you people saying fixes don't happen because it would require too much sophistication to orchestrate, and buying the referees wouldn't guarantee victory, etc, are missing the point. It is not about guaranteeing that a certain bet will win, although that would be the ideal result. It is about increasing your chances to the point where it is worth it to risk it. If you had some magical system in blackjack where you could see the dealer's hole card every hand, it wouldn't guarantee that you would win. But it would put your long-term odds well into the 60-80% range, and you would therefore keep playing because the math makes sense. If you could buy officials to make calls that favor one team over the other, such that one team is getting a cumulative advantage over the course of the game, and thereby increasing the chances that they cover, you would do it even though it doesn't guarantee a win every game.

Some very interesting points. And I can agree with most of your thought process. However, didn't the refs make some really horrendous calls against Seattle too throughout the game? Also I understand that what you are saying is a fixed game will just give you a better edge. Okay, so how much are you willing to pay for that edge. I mean if I were a hoodlum I might be okay paying a couple thousand to get an edge from a ref, but I don't think I would be happy paying tens of thousands or more to just get an edge. However, I think you make very arguable points.

[Don kiddick]

Didn't know you guys had a problem with fixing in sport over there. Don't understand the rules of NFL. Complicated Rugby really isn't it. Also go's on far too long. Too many stoppages.
Is it actually really that popular or has it nosedived recently due to football (by that I mean real fooball or soccer as you lot call it) becoming a dominant sport over there.

[OTL]

A lot of losing gamblers crying fix. What else is new.

If you're gonna fix a game you don't wait for a hail mary with 0s on the clock on MNF

you do a game out of the public eye and set the tone early

FIY I didn't take a side for the GB/Seattle game...

Out of the public eye and setting the tone of a fix early sounds like an oxymoron to me. Just because you don't see much corruption exposed in organized sports doesn't mean it doesn't exist. You think the people pulling the strings want to be outed, or the governing bodies want the integrity of their leagues compromised in the public eye, which in turn would kill revenue in addition to being a huge embarassment? No, they care about their bottom line first and foremost. Take a page from MLB and their handling of banned substances...

[Filmoz]

Some very interesting points. And I can agree with most of your thought process. However, didn't the refs make some really horrendous calls against Seattle too throughout the game? Also I understand that what you are saying is a fixed game will just give you a better edge. Okay, so how much are you willing to pay for that edge. I mean if I were a hoodlum I might be okay paying a couple thousand to get an edge from a ref, but I don't think I would be happy paying tens of thousands or more to just get an edge. However, I think you make very arguable points.

Thanks Dante. Just to make clear, I am definitely leaning on the side of no fix, but I was just floating some thoughts out there to play devil's advocate. And I do think a betting syndicate that is putting perhaps millions on games, or a sportsbook that is taking in millions heavily on one side of a game, would be comfortable paying substantial sums of money to corrupt refs to influence an outcome. This referee situation has certainly created an opportunity, I can't imagine these replacement refs make much money. Not to mention they are pulled from the ranks of DII and DIII college football officials, and there is always some shady stuff going on in small college games (basketball too).