1. #36
    ChalkyDog
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Sol View Post
    point shaving is not the same as fixing. Fixing implies it was done beforehand by an entity. It was eluded to before in this thread. Tennis, Snooker, Darts etc, Journeymen will fix matches because they are broke and traveling is expensive. I can see students in Colledge doing it because they are young and dumb, but highly unlikely the whole team is involved.The upper levels of talent have no reason to and actually the risk/reward of getting caught doesn't warrant it.

    Pro team sports, its absolutely impossible. Its not one entity that is a Sports League. Its 100's of owners and investors and you would have to have all of them on board for it to happen and I doubt a person who has millions invested in a team will be OK with losing millions so Stern could have his Kobe/LeBron game.

    But the single most important entity preventing Fixing from happening in Pro sports is Money. Just like some claim its Money that rigs all the Games. Its actually Money that is really preventing it. Again, you would have to have everyone involved and investors will make far more money keeping it legit than allowing some mysterious entity to fix games. All it would take is one person. That is it, just one person to say something and you would have an instant lawsuit in the hundreds of Millions for selling a false product.

    Are you really going to claim that their aren't any people or attorneys in this county that wouldnt seize the opportunity to become instant Millionaires (Lawyers and the initial complainant generally get about 20% of the class action lawsuit) by suing the league?

    Point shaving sure, albiet not as much as you think. Actually rigging or fixing the game beforehand, impossible.
    BTW, the thing that happened a few years ago with the whole SDSU point shaving crew was indicted for guess what - match fixing.

    Point shaving isn't fixing. Seriously?

  2. #37
    labones00
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChalkyDog View Post
    Point shaving is not fixing?

    A semantics argument if I've ever heard one.

    Fixings may have occurred in the past, most of us will agree with you on that....but your posting DOES NOT represent this scenario. You are flat out wrong and the quicker you realize this the sooner we can all move on to the next ridiculous claim on here

  3. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by labones00 View Post
    Fixings may have occurred in the past, most of us will agree with you on that....but your posting DOES NOT represent this scenario. You are flat out wrong and the quicker you realize this the sooner we can all move on to the next ridiculous claim on here
    How?

    My point is fixing exists. It has happened, is happening, and will happen again. This is a very recent example of some shady shit, albeit the FBI has yet to close their investigation one way or the other.

  4. #39
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    Fukk, I have two for sure examples of fixing in chess, although at the level it happened it wasn't a betable market, but money was made from a very fixed event.

  5. #40
    brewers7
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Sol View Post
    point shaving is not the same as fixing. Fixing implies it was done beforehand by an entity. It was eluded to before in this thread. Tennis, Snooker, Darts etc, Journeymen will fix matches because they are broke and traveling is expensive. I can see students in Colledge doing it because they are young and dumb, but highly unlikely the whole team is involved.The upper levels of talent have no reason to and actually the risk/reward of getting caught doesn't warrant it.

    Pro team sports, its absolutely impossible. Its not one entity that is a Sports League. Its 100's of owners and investors and you would have to have all of them on board for it to happen and I doubt a person who has millions invested in a team will be OK with losing millions so Stern could have his Kobe/LeBron game.

    But the single most important entity preventing Fixing from happening in Pro sports is Money. Just like some claim its Money that rigs all the Games. Its actually Money that is really preventing it. Again, you would have to have everyone involved and investors will make far more money keeping it legit than allowing some mysterious entity to fix games. All it would take is one person. That is it, just one person to say something and you would have an instant lawsuit in the hundreds of Millions for selling a false product.

    Are you really going to claim that their aren't any people or attorneys in this county that wouldnt seize the opportunity to become instant Millionaires (Lawyers and the initial complainant generally get about 20% of the class action lawsuit) by suing the league?

    Point shaving sure, albiet not as much as you think. Actually rigging or fixing the game beforehand, impossible.
    Another post that is dead-on accurate...

  6. #41
    labones00
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChalkyDog View Post
    Off the top of my head, examples of fixing:

    ASU point shaving
    South Korean match fixing
    Juventas
    Liverpool goalie who was initially acquitted but later the decision overturned.

    Fukk it, might just say Soccer in general at this point, as the list is insane.

    Last years Nascar - firstrow, penske and waltrip.

    Shit, even the last Olympics had an issue with boxing that many reported was the result of a bribe (although I don't know where that went).

    A few years back there were a bunch of indictments about a match fixing that involved the SDSU program (or there were ties to SDSU), I don't remember.

    There are numerous examples just in the last few years.

    Fixing isn't as rampant as is alleged many times on this board, but to think it doesn't exist is beyond moronic.

    The reason this has turned into an argument is because you claimed that UTEP shaved points...this DID NOT happen. Just man up and admit you were wrong in your claim

    Yes, games have been fixed in the past but this is not one of those scenarios...do you work for the media by chance because you are phenomenal at twisting a story around to make it read the way you want it to

  7. #42
    stevenash
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    Quote Originally Posted by JOHNNY DOBBS View Post
    gambling ≠ point shaving/ fixing
    Gambling leads to point shaving/fixing.

    Once word gets out that shortstop John Smith likes to bet sports, or point guard Joe Jones likes to bet sports, they become targets by wiseguys.

  8. #43
    stevenash
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    Anderson Hunt, late 80's early 90's most talented guard in the nation, led UNLV to back to back title games.
    Never got a sniff from the NBA.

    Why do you suppose that was?

  9. #44
    dontknowtohedge
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    Match fixing happens all the time.

    Myself and the others caught one in college hoops just earlier this week. http://www.sportsbookreview.com/forum/ncaa-baske...ixed-game.html

    We are sharp, nothing gets by us.

  10. #45
    stevenash
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    Quote Originally Posted by dontknowtohedge View Post
    Match fixing happens all the time.

    Myself and the others caught one in college hoops just earlier this week. http://www.sportsbookreview.com/forum/ncaa-baske...ixed-game.html

    We are sharp, nothing gets by us.
    I'm a UCONN homer, Huskies have been know to throw a game or two. (and I'm being nice)

  11. #46
    lakerboy
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    point shaving and fixing are the same thing for us gamblers. its determining the results of what we gamble on. so a guy misses 2 free throws to cover. thats altering the result of an event. to me that is fixing.

  12. #47
    lunch
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    Quote Originally Posted by lakerboy View Post
    point shaving and fixing are the same thing for us gamblers. its determining the results of what we gamble on. so a guy misses 2 free throws to cover. thats altering the result of an event. to me that is fixing.
    these SBR trolls probably think it's fixed when a guy dunks instead of shooting a 3

    some people dont know what theyre getting into, sports are fun for the players

  13. #48
    stevenash
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    Quote Originally Posted by lunch View Post
    these SBR trolls probably think it's fixed when a guy dunks instead of shooting a 3
    What's your point? You are saying there is no fixing going on?

  14. #49
    lunch
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    Quote Originally Posted by stevenash View Post
    What's your point? You are saying there is no fixing going on?
    im saying people dont know what they're getting into. you have life problems if you have trouble losing bets on GAMES that are 100% out of your control.

  15. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by lunch View Post
    im saying people dont know what they're getting into. you have life problems if you have trouble losing bets on GAMES that are 100% out of your control.
    Got ya.
    Been on the right side of fixes, been on the wrong side of fixes.
    I don't wager to supplement my income, or to make a living.
    It's entertainment to me.

  16. #51
    brewers7
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    Quote Originally Posted by stevenash View Post
    Got ya.
    Been on the right side of fixes, been on the wrong side of fixes.
    I don't wager to supplement my income, or to make a living.
    It's entertainment to me.
    Funny stuff...

    These so-called "fixes" you speak of, what I do know as a FACT, did not occur in the NBA, NHL, NFL, MLB, NCAAF or NCAAB...

    So if you are betting on darts, chess, South Korean sports, European soccer, Olympic boxing, etc, then that is on you as ChalkyDog is informing the masses that fixing is rampant in these sports (well, maybe not darts, not yet)...
    Last edited by brewers7; 01-08-14 at 03:44 PM.

  17. #52
    stevenash
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    Quote Originally Posted by brewers7 View Post
    Funny stuff...

    These so-called "fixes" you speak of, what I do know as a FACT, did not occur in the NBA, NHL, NFL, MLB, NCAAF or NCAAB...

    So if you are betting on darts, chess, South Korean sports, European soccer, etc, then that is on you...
    FACT?
    Can you prove beyond a shadow of a doubt the CCNY scandal was not a fix job.
    Fact, you want fact?
    Ed Warner admitted to shaving.
    Can't get more factual then that.


    Here, read this about Sherman White

    Point shaving scandal[edit]

    Eddie Gard had been contacted by Salvatore Sollazzo, the man responsible for operating the point shaving scandals at several New York City schools between the late 1940s and 1951 (City College of New York, Manhattan College, New York University and Long Island University).[2][7] Sollazzo was a 45-year old jeweler and gambler who had spent five years in prison during the 1930s.[2] Gard's family was poor and he did not want to give up a steady income of cash, which amounted to $1,000 per player per thrown game.[7] The original LIU players involved were Gard, Bigos and Feurtado. Eventually White and LeRoy Smith joined.
    Toward the end of White's junior season he had participated in two fixes. The first was an 83–65 loss to Cincinnati, and the other was the first round in the 1950 NIT. Syracuse beat LIU 80–52, although White admitted that they were beaten soundly enough that the fix did little to decide the outcome.[2]
    In the early stages of the 1950–51 season, LIU players won several games that were kept close on purpose to mess up the point spreads:[2]

    • December 2 – Favored by 7½ points over Kansas State (won by one, 60–59)
    • December 7 – Favored by 4 over Denver (won by two, 58–56, in double overtime)
    • December 25 – Favored by 11 over Idaho (won by two, 59–57)
    • January 4 – Favored by 8 over Bowling Green (won by six, 69–63)

    Suspicions slowly began to arise that something awry was going on, not only with the Long Island Blackbirds men's basketball team, but also with the other prominent New York City programs. CCNY were losing games they were supposed to win, as were NYU and Manhattan. The public did not speak outwardly about their suspicions, although police were already conducting an investigation.
    Sherman White, along with teammates Bigos and Smith, disregarded Sollazzo's intended fix for a game played on January 16 against Duquesne. The three combined for 64 points as the Blackbirds downed the Dukes, 84–52.[2] Sollazzo supposedly lost a $30,000 bet because of it and threatened White for it to never happen again.[2]
    Getting caught[edit]

    On February 18, several CCNY players that had just gotten off of a train at Penn Station after playing in Philadelphia that night were arrested. Police and detectives had researched and followed the previous several years' games and the CCNY players, respectively, that led to their arrests.[2] Two days later, police arrested Sherman White at the Carlton YMCA in Brooklyn. White later said, "I knew it was a matter of time. I was in a fog. As far as I was concerned, my life was shot."[2] Bigos and Smith were also arrested that day.[3]
    Aftermath[edit]



    White being led through felony court by a detective.

    As soon as White was arrested, he gave back the $5,500 he had saved in an envelope that he kept in his room. He was forced to miss the last few games of the season, and at that time he was averaging 27.7 points per game and was the nation's leading scorer. He was only 77 total points from setting the new NCAA single season scoring record. When his career came to an abrupt halt, White had scored 1,435 points.[6] On February 19, 1951—the day before his arrest—White was named the The Sporting News' Player of the Year.[3] The only reason that he was still able to accept the honor was because The Sporting News had already mailed out their newest issue and it was too late to recall the magazine.[4] Although he had been a Consensus Second Team All-American the year before, and was on track to be named a Consensus First Team All-American (and, probably, the Consensus National Player of the Year) as a senior, the NCAArefused to allow any awards or recognition to be bestowed upon any of the schools, players and coaches found to be involved in the match-fixing scandal that rocked college basketball in the late 1940s into 1951.[4] LIU shut down its entire athletic program from 1951 to 1957 as a result of the scandal.[6][8]
    Judge Saul Streit presided over the entire case involving all of the schools.[3] When deciding all of the players' fates, Streit was noticeably hard on White.[2][4]Although Eddie Gard was the primary catalyst for LIU's involvement in the gambling and point shaving, White was the only player from Long Island University to be handed more than a suspended sentence.[3] While five other players indicted from LIU got off relatively easily, White was handed a 12-month sentence to serve in Rikers Island, the main prison in New York City typically used for rehabilitation of hardened criminals (he ended up serving 8 months and 24 days).[2][4][9] Additionally, he and all of the other players involved in the scandal were banned from ever playing in the NBA. White recalled his feelings of the stiff sentence handed down by Judge Streit:
    "To this day, I believe there was some kind of collaboration between my lawyer and the prosecution. Riker's [sic] Island was supposed to have been built for rehabilitation, but it was the worst place in the world for a kid to try and straighten out his life. I often wonder why I never came out of there a criminal. With all the characters and perverts I met, it certainly would have been the easy way to go."[4]
    Years later, White, along with others, wondered if racism played a role in the harsh punishment. However, White admitted that he did not possess the necessary respect or humility in the courtroom that was probably necessary for the situation.[2][4][9]
    The man who started the whole gambling scandal, Salvatore Sollazzo, served 12 years in prison and was handed a $1,128,493 lien for evasion of taxes.[10] One positive thing to come of the scandal, a journalist for TIME wrote in the March 5, 1951 issue, was the awareness of how much influence the game had over gambling and illicit money-making ventures, which got the ball rolling to clean not just college basketball, but all college sports across the country.[10]

    SUPER BOWL III
    Rigged
    Why? Because the NFL stood to lose a gazillion dollars in TV revenue if the NFL dominated the AFL again.
    Merger of the two leagues was on the table, TV deal would have probably been killed if Colts dominated as the AFL would never been accepted.
    Bubba Smith is on record as saying his QB, Earl Morrel took major money under the table to take a dive, as the league, as well as each and every owner stood to make millions with a Colt win. There was too much on the table, without the Colt win, the modern day NFL would have never existed.

    The NBA front office rigged the Patrick Ewing draft lottery

    Did Michael Jordan 'retire' from the NBA in his prime because he wanted to play baseball?
    What did Jordan mean when he said, "if Stern allows me to play in the league again I'll come back?"

    How come Andeerson Hunt, by far the best guard in NCAA never got a sniff from the NBA in 1990's
    Could it be he threw games, has been photographed in hot tubs with notorious sports fixers, etc. etc.

    How many examples do I need to site here?

    Lighting techs at the Super Dome in New Orleans are on record as saying it was no accident that the lights went dark in last years SB.
    Reason? League was desperate to get the game more respectable, they feared sponsors, league, etc, was going to lose a lot of money with viwers tuning out.
    League ordered that black out.

    What about the Seahawk SB?
    Could the refs, the best in the business yet, be that inept to make those five glaring obvious mistakes?

    Earl Monroe of the Knicks once put the ball in the wrong bucket with 00:01 left on the clock in a 7 point game, to make the game five, when the spread was 6.5

    I can go all day here dude.


    Last edited by SBR Jonelyn; 06-17-15 at 11:50 AM. Reason: image does not exist

  18. #53
    Deuce
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  19. #54
    frogsrangers
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    Fixing happened with Mississippi Valley State's 2012 basketball team and I guarantee it. They choked away 2 massive 2nd half leads with little time to go in back to back games in March 2012 in similar fashion. Once in the SWAC championship game and once in the NCAA tournament play in game. No doubt in my mind fixing goes on in the SWAC.

  20. #55
    stevenash
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    ^
    MAC football there is a fix a weekend.
    Detroit mob makes out like a bandit

  21. #56
    barca12
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    Of course fixing happens, do any of the people thinking otherwise ever watch a game. Sometimes it is so obvious that it makes me sick. Especially in European soccer(lower divisions)...dont know much about American sports but it happens a lot here in Europe

  22. #57
    3PtShooter
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    ask sonny liston

  23. #58
    jarvol
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    Quote Originally Posted by frogsrangers View Post
    Fixing happened with Mississippi Valley State's 2012 basketball team and I guarantee it. They choked away 2 massive 2nd half leads with little time to go in back to back games in March 2012 in similar fashion. Once in the SWAC championship game and once in the NCAA tournament play in game. No doubt in my mind fixing goes on in the SWAC.
    So why would MSVS jump out to huge halftime leads if they were fixing games?

    This is a stupid thread started by a dumbass.

  24. #59
    k13
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    Suing the league for millions....for what?

    They don't owe anyone a legit game. It is entertainment and a private company. They can do whatever they want.

    You won't have enough proof for a case anyway because the only people who'd "talk" are broke diks.

    Try suing the nba...Lol

  25. #60
    stevenash
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    "If it moves, you can bet on it"

    - Mo the Bartender 'The Simpson's'

  26. #61
    lakerboy
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    Quote Originally Posted by stevenash View Post
    FACT?
    Can you prove beyond a shadow of a doubt the CCNY scandal was not a fix job.
    Fact, you want fact?
    Ed Warner admitted to shaving.
    Can't get more factual then that.


    Here, read this about Sherman White

    Point shaving scandal[edit]

    Eddie Gard had been contacted by Salvatore Sollazzo, the man responsible for operating the point shaving scandals at several New York City schools between the late 1940s and 1951 (City College of New York, Manhattan College, New York University and Long Island University).[2][7] Sollazzo was a 45-year old jeweler and gambler who had spent five years in prison during the 1930s.[2] Gard's family was poor and he did not want to give up a steady income of cash, which amounted to $1,000 per player per thrown game.[7] The original LIU players involved were Gard, Bigos and Feurtado. Eventually White and LeRoy Smith joined.
    Toward the end of White's junior season he had participated in two fixes. The first was an 83–65 loss to Cincinnati, and the other was the first round in the 1950 NIT. Syracuse beat LIU 80–52, although White admitted that they were beaten soundly enough that the fix did little to decide the outcome.[2]
    In the early stages of the 1950–51 season, LIU players won several games that were kept close on purpose to mess up the point spreads:[2]

    • December 2 – Favored by 7½ points over Kansas State (won by one, 60–59)
    • December 7 – Favored by 4 over Denver (won by two, 58–56, in double overtime)
    • December 25 – Favored by 11 over Idaho (won by two, 59–57)
    • January 4 – Favored by 8 over Bowling Green (won by six, 69–63)

    Suspicions slowly began to arise that something awry was going on, not only with the Long Island Blackbirds men's basketball team, but also with the other prominent New York City programs. CCNY were losing games they were supposed to win, as were NYU and Manhattan. The public did not speak outwardly about their suspicions, although police were already conducting an investigation.
    Sherman White, along with teammates Bigos and Smith, disregarded Sollazzo's intended fix for a game played on January 16 against Duquesne. The three combined for 64 points as the Blackbirds downed the Dukes, 84–52.[2] Sollazzo supposedly lost a $30,000 bet because of it and threatened White for it to never happen again.[2]
    Getting caught[edit]

    On February 18, several CCNY players that had just gotten off of a train at Penn Station after playing in Philadelphia that night were arrested. Police and detectives had researched and followed the previous several years' games and the CCNY players, respectively, that led to their arrests.[2] Two days later, police arrested Sherman White at the Carlton YMCA in Brooklyn. White later said, "I knew it was a matter of time. I was in a fog. As far as I was concerned, my life was shot."[2] Bigos and Smith were also arrested that day.[3]
    Aftermath[edit]


    White being led through felony court by a detective.

    As soon as White was arrested, he gave back the $5,500 he had saved in an envelope that he kept in his room. He was forced to miss the last few games of the season, and at that time he was averaging 27.7 points per game and was the nation's leading scorer. He was only 77 total points from setting the new NCAA single season scoring record. When his career came to an abrupt halt, White had scored 1,435 points.[6] On February 19, 1951—the day before his arrest—White was named the The Sporting News' Player of the Year.[3] The only reason that he was still able to accept the honor was because The Sporting News had already mailed out their newest issue and it was too late to recall the magazine.[4] Although he had been a Consensus Second Team All-American the year before, and was on track to be named a Consensus First Team All-American (and, probably, the Consensus National Player of the Year) as a senior, the NCAArefused to allow any awards or recognition to be bestowed upon any of the schools, players and coaches found to be involved in the match-fixing scandal that rocked college basketball in the late 1940s into 1951.[4] LIU shut down its entire athletic program from 1951 to 1957 as a result of the scandal.[6][8]
    Judge Saul Streit presided over the entire case involving all of the schools.[3] When deciding all of the players' fates, Streit was noticeably hard on White.[2][4]Although Eddie Gard was the primary catalyst for LIU's involvement in the gambling and point shaving, White was the only player from Long Island University to be handed more than a suspended sentence.[3] While five other players indicted from LIU got off relatively easily, White was handed a 12-month sentence to serve in Rikers Island, the main prison in New York City typically used for rehabilitation of hardened criminals (he ended up serving 8 months and 24 days).[2][4][9] Additionally, he and all of the other players involved in the scandal were banned from ever playing in the NBA. White recalled his feelings of the stiff sentence handed down by Judge Streit:
    "To this day, I believe there was some kind of collaboration between my lawyer and the prosecution. Riker's [sic] Island was supposed to have been built for rehabilitation, but it was the worst place in the world for a kid to try and straighten out his life. I often wonder why I never came out of there a criminal. With all the characters and perverts I met, it certainly would have been the easy way to go."[4]
    Years later, White, along with others, wondered if racism played a role in the harsh punishment. However, White admitted that he did not possess the necessary respect or humility in the courtroom that was probably necessary for the situation.[2][4][9]
    The man who started the whole gambling scandal, Salvatore Sollazzo, served 12 years in prison and was handed a $1,128,493 lien for evasion of taxes.[10] One positive thing to come of the scandal, a journalist for TIME wrote in the March 5, 1951 issue, was the awareness of how much influence the game had over gambling and illicit money-making ventures, which got the ball rolling to clean not just college basketball, but all college sports across the country.[10]

    SUPER BOWL III
    Rigged
    Why? Because the NFL stood to lose a gazillion dollars in TV revenue if the NFL dominated the AFL again.
    Merger of the two leagues was on the table, TV deal would have probably been killed if Colts dominated as the AFL would never been accepted.
    Bubba Smith is on record as saying his QB, Earl Morrel took major money under the table to take a dive, as the league, as well as each and every owner stood to make millions with a Colt win. There was too much on the table, without the Colt win, the modern day NFL would have never existed.

    The NBA front office rigged the Patrick Ewing draft lottery

    Did Michael Jordan 'retire' from the NBA in his prime because he wanted to play baseball?
    What did Jordan mean when he said, "if Stern allows me to play in the league again I'll come back?"

    How come Andeerson Hunt, by far the best guard in NCAA never got a sniff from the NBA in 1990's
    Could it be he threw games, has been photographed in hot tubs with notorious sports fixers, etc. etc.

    How many examples do I need to site here?

    Lighting techs at the Super Dome in New Orleans are on record as saying it was no accident that the lights went dark in last years SB.
    Reason? League was desperate to get the game more respectable, they feared sponsors, league, etc, was going to lose a lot of money with viwers tuning out.
    League ordered that black out.

    What about the Seahawk SB?
    Could the refs, the best in the business yet, be that inept to make those five glaring obvious mistakes?

    Earl Monroe of the Knicks once put the ball in the wrong bucket with 00:01 left on the clock in a 7 point game, to make the game five, when the spread was 6.5

    I can go all day here dude.



    the most fixed game in the history of football.
    Last edited by SBR Jonelyn; 06-17-15 at 11:51 AM. Reason: image does not exist

  27. #62
    kyhawk
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    Utep record is 7-2 vs spread. They clearly threw the 2 games they lost. Those who think fixing happens are clearly losers looking for an excuse.

  28. #63
    stevenash
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    Quote Originally Posted by lakerboy View Post
    the most fixed game in the history of football.
    That and SBIII

  29. #64
    stevenash
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyhawk View Post
    Utep record is 7-2 vs spread. They clearly threw the 2 games they lost. Those who think fixing happens are clearly losers looking for an excuse.
    Dude, fixing happens, deal with it.
    Not each and every game, but it goes on in all sports, and in business, and in most areas of life.
    Trust me on this, you are not always starting out on an even leveled playing field.

  30. #65
    PAULYPOKER
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    Quote Originally Posted by SportsMushroom View Post
    if people really believe that they lose money because of fixed games and still keep betting then they are idiots and get no sympathy from me, i hope the books take them to the cleaners



    personally i believe that there is no fix, its against league interests to fix games as they would tarnish the image of their billion dollar product

    pro athletes and refs get paid too much to be worth their while, yeah ive heard of donaghy but he was only one guy

    i can see college athletes doing some point shaving because they dont get any money

    but even then i believe that it evens out, people are on the fix just as much as they are on the other side
    Oh Yeah

    The industry has you convinced now don't they?

  31. #66
    PAULYPOKER
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjgold View Post
    Pro Sports it never happens..they make too much money
    Yeah dem dare Refs make boats loads don't they......

    And dem dare Kickers are purely respected and unconditionally loved by their teammates......

    Dey wouldn't dare take a payoff to miss that crucial ATS or outcome swing.....

  32. #67
    InTheDrink
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    tell me more about this earl monroe game huey

  33. #68
    RonPaul2008
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    The article specifically says they are not suspected of point shaving or betting on UTEP games.
    Of course point shaving and other fixes happen plenty, anyone who says otherwise is naive.

  34. #69
    Bustedu
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    For all the idiots that don't believe they fix games in all sports you need to go to this website. www.thefixisin.net. You will find all the proof you need there.

  35. #70
    jtoler
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    Anybody can start an online account and gamble so Im sure there are alot of players gambling.

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