[Goat Milk]

Pretty sure Jordan and Pippen were the leaders of that team...

That's like me saying Jordan is one of the greatest scorers of all time, and you responding "yeah so is AI"

Russell>>>>>Rodman

Who was the leader of the pistons? Was it Billups or Big Ben? Billups was the offensive General. Ben was the defensive presence. Same concept in Boston. Pierce is the leader of that team while KG is the defensive soul. Same idea in Chicago. Look what Rodman accomplished on the Bulls, and on the Pistons....

Russel is better than Rodman, yeah, but Rodman is also one of the greatest defensive players of all time and rebounders. It takes a lot more than that to be on the top 10 of all time. You have to be the main threat on both sides of the floor. Interesting point about Bird but his offenisve ability made up for his defense. I found it interesting that no one mentioned Dr. J. A guy that was aboslutely dominate on both sides of the floor.

[jubuck757]

One of smartest players to ever play, great passer, great rebounder, weak 1 on 1 D but great team D, and again, top 3 pure shooter (IMO 1 or 2, with Ray Allen and Nash being the other 2)

Found a link with Lakers fans discussing him, and if anyone would be hard on him it would be them... gives a pretty good idea of what he could do. Link to a youtube vid in there too.

http://www.clublakers.com/nba-discus...e-t107062.html

Dont get me wrong bird was a pretty good player, and he is a certified hall of famer. But he is not a alltime great top 10 player

[rsnnh12]

Who was the leader of the pistons? Was it Billups or Big Ben? Billups was the offensive General. Ben was the defensive presence. Same concept in Boston. Pierce is the leader of that team while KG is the defensive soul. Same idea in Chicago. Look what Rodman accomplished on the Bulls, and on the Pistons....

Russel is better than Rodman, yeah, but Rodman is also one of the greatest defensive players of all time and rebounders. It takes a lot more than that to be on the top 10 of all time. You have to be the main threat on both sides of the floor. Interesting point about Bird but his offenisve ability made up for his defense. I found it interesting that no one mentioned Dr. J. A guy that was aboslutely dominate on both sides of the floor.

The Celtics of that era focused on a balanced attack, which is part of why they were so good. Russell doesn't have the big offensive numbers because the team did better with balance. He never averaged more than 17 FGA per game in any season. Its not like he was a liability on the offensive end. He was no MJ, but he wasn't horrible.

[k13]

Jordan, Bird, Shaq, Duncan, and Bryant. The rest I have watched on film. Not clips. Full games.

Wilt Chamberlain is the most overrated player in the history of the NBA. The players in the NBA during his time were equivilent to college players today (maybe even D2 college). He had a significant height advantage almost every game, and most of his points came off layup and putbacks. His accomplishments are blown up because he played at a time where he was just completely dominant. There were only about 15 superstars in the league at that time, so there was a huge dropoff between these guys and the rest of the league. Basketball was evolving. Guys were still revolutionizing the position. Now- every position has already been revolutionized, and if you have something to add to the game that hasn't been seen, its usually something minor. So the game is evolving less and less and mainly staying the same--Since the Jordan era, the game really has not changed much.

Bryant scored 81 in today's era, which is 10 times more difficult than Wilt's 100 (go back and watch the tape from that game, and you will realize what I am talking about).

Duncan does not deserve to be on this list. Shaq ahead of Bryant is a disgrace to be honest. Even both Jerry West and Magic Johnson have come out and said Bryant is the best laker ever. Eddie, we're not talking about dominance, as it can easily be argued Shaq was the most dominant player in history. However, he is not a top 5 player ever to play, plain and simple, putting him ahead of Magic Johnson is absurd.

Bill Russel gets on this list because he was a great defender and had all those championships? Do the guys that make this list not understand that Bill Russel would be lucky to win a couple of rings in today's league. The things Bryant and Jordan have done are truly special. I will be curious to see if ANYONE during the next 20 years will come close to JOrdan's 6 rings or Bryant's 5 (and counting). Big O is the only one out of those 3 I feel deserves to be in the top 5.

There was no tape of Wilt's game. Bryant will never sniff 81 again, fluke game.

This is like saying, Jordan would be garbage now because everyone is bigger, faster, can jump higher than him.

Jordan played against scrubs all his career, there was barely any tall athletic players at his position, now they are a dime a dozen.

Jordan said his toughest opponent was Mitch Richmond.

Jordan is really overrated if you start looking at it.

But its pointless comparing era's

[Chandler]

Larry Bird vs Magic(with help from isaiah and domininc) MADE the NBA.... with the help of the quick succession of Michael.

Larry was a Winner period. Guy wasn't athletic. but he made the most of what he had. maybe more than any other player.

Let's be clear here on what the definition of a "Pure Shooter" is.

Craig Hodges was a pure shooter...he sat on the bench.
Paxson was a pure shooter
Dale Ellis was a pure shooter
Dell Curry was a pure shooter
Tim Legler was a pure shooter


these are guys that spot up, can't create a shot ect.

Larry could do that, but more often than not he created his own shot.

and you don't think Bird could rebound, pass, hustle, steal? do the things that don't end up on the stat sheet? c'mon

[Chandler]

take 6 mins and watch this. Not so much to show you how much Larry was a great player.

but to show you how much it has changed into a league without rare athletic dominance has been exalted over the little things, skill, innovation, teamwork ect.

[Chandler]

someone find me a list of guys that average 10 rebounds a game over a 10 year career.

and keep in mind Bird did that on a team that had Parrish and Mchale

[Bradyd]

There was no tape of Wilt's game. Bryant will never sniff 81 again, fluke game.

This is like saying, Jordan would be garbage now because everyone is bigger, faster, can jump higher than him.

Jordan played against scrubs all his career, there was barely any tall athletic players at his position, now they are a dime a dozen.

Jordan said his toughest opponent was Mitch Richmond.

Jordan is really overrated if you start looking at it.

But its pointless comparing era's

Are you serious? You made a couple good points, but most of it was crap...

[Goat Milk]

no you can still see some clips you can actually listen to most of the game and they indicate what Wilt is doing.

[Chandler]

I too love to see full game clips of the Big O, the Big Dipper, Willis Reed, Bob Cousy, Bones Mckinley, Bill Sharman, Dolph Shayes ect


tell me where I can find them Goaty?

[Goat Milk]

Bryant outscored the Dallas Mavericks 62-61 after 3 quarters and sat out the entire 4th

[Chandler]

no you can still see some clips you can actually listen to most of the game and they indicate what Wilt is doing.

oh.. I can't watch the games. but I can listen to games.

ok. can you link me to where I can listen to games?


interesting side note, do you know somtimes in the old days. they would be broadcast play by play of baseball games with a guy in a studio getting a play by play on ticker tape?

[Ninersnut]

[StraitShooter]

Bird was over rated. If bird played today he would not be considered a top 10 player, in todays game, let alone all time top 10. He had no atheltic ability at all. Now he is probaly a top 10 clutch player, but bird played no defense. yeah he could shoot real good but what else could he do, my point exactly. You ask me he is a poor man Dirk, except he can pass a little better than dirk. Bird was so over rated clearly because he was white, just to call it like it is.

All respect due no way you watched him play

guy was a freak of nature

Duffy lookin white boy who was as good as it gets

guy took shitty Indiana St to the finals-nuff said


Freakin Marvin Barnes not on list and he may have been top 40 ever

Guess thats why his nickname was Bad news Barnes

[pavyracer]

I would put Karl Malone in place of Tim Duncan.

[StraitShooter]

As far as Jabbar...well I am sure all you know they outlawed the dunk during his career at ucla and reinstated it after he left

[k13]

Are you serious? You made a couple good points, but most of it was crap...

Its true, really hard to be schooling ehlo, starks, hornacek, dumars, nick anderson, hersey hawkins, brian russell, reggie miller, some random white guys.

[Chandler]

I would put Karl Malone in place of Tim Duncan.

you aren't allowed to post in this thread anymore

[Goat Milk]

oh.. I can't watch the games. but I can listen to games.

ok. can you link me to where I can listen to games?

interesting side note, do you know somtimes in the old days. they would be broadcast play by play of baseball games with a guy in a studio getting a play by play on ticker tape?

you would have to search for them individually and download the gamecast with a torrent file. Here is an easily accessible website that allows you to listen to the 4th quarter of Wilt's game without downloading anything. I will try and get you some of the footage for some other guys tonight after the spurs/heat game and lakers.

http://www.randomhouse.com/crown/wilt/

no i did not know that about the broadcasting. interesting

[jjgold]

So debatable

Walt Frazier 36???

Common

[Goat Milk]

bird is top 10 without question...depending on the careers lebron and wade have the next decade or so, i would not be suprrised to see both of them make the top 10 if the accumulate a few more rings

if lebron gets 1 ring, you have to believe he will go down as the greatest sf ever to play. bird is on that list now but he is no lebron james. its a matter of winning though so we'll see.

we shall continue this discussion tonight

[philswin]

Russel best team player
Chamberlain best Individual player
Jordan best combination of both

[Chandler]

looking forward to it Goat.

I may be skewed towards wilt, because i'm pretty sure that there is a 25% chance he is my step-grandfather. one of the 10,000 he ****** was my grandma, my step-mom was born a bastard. but she said her mom thought it was wilt, back when he was traveling with the globetrotters in europe. it was one of 4 guys that spring for her.

I should add in that i'm adopted. so its really a step-adopted grandmother. but that's beside the point.

the guy was one of the greatest athletes to ever step foot on this earth, regardless of era

[Chandler]

So debatable

Walt Frazier 36???

Common

debating is the point and the fun.

no one takes any of these lists as gospel. and its just a random magazine.

more fun is debating hall of fame or not ect.

[Luv2Play2]

jubuck... u cant be serious..giving bird only credit as a shooter.. EVER WATCH HIM DISH THE BALL. ever hear of assists!!! and nobody worked harder than him..u r truely an ahole....

[Bradyd]

Its true, really hard to be schooling ehlo, starks, hornacek, dumars, nick anderson, hersey hawkins, brian russell, reggie miller, some random white guys.

Go back and do some more research and not only will you subtract a few names from that very short list you intended to mock, but you will also realize how many good defenders there were in the 90's-Or better known as the last time the NBA played actual defense..

[Luv2Play2]

thank u chandler!!!!!!!! oh and he did win his only 2 entries in the 3 point shootout... the man was a team player. not some circus act all about himself.. most nba players are selfish fuczzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.. im done bol always

[BettingWizard]

Top 10 player of all time is somebody who would be at least top 3, if you cloned them and had them play in any era.. Bird didn't rely on athleticism, so therefore you have to say he would be a top player in any era.

[katstale]

Reading some of this drivvle reminds me of Howard Cosell's "I never played the game". If you never played and don't understand what the guys are doing out there, then be very quiet and listen to guys that did. EVERY peer of Larry, except one jealous guy (who later claimed he was joking) spoke of his game with reverance. That Indiana State team couldn't have won a YMCA rec league without him.

Agree, Jabbar has to go above Shaq. As far as Wilt. He was a freak athlete that could have competed in any era. He did only what he had to against the competition available. To understand what Wilt was doing, think abt it like this. Take Dwight Howard and put him in place of Wilt. He would do the same things Wilt did. Plus, Wilt did all he did and was perpetually "without legs" because of all the chicks he was bangin. Schools out for now.

[Luv2Play2]

chandler just saw the link.. made my hair on my arm stand up.. and the best was bird steals the ball,bird steals the ball. ask BOTH "MJ's" where bird fits in..

[BettingWizard]

Its true, really hard to be schooling ehlo, starks, hornacek, dumars, nick anderson, hersey hawkins, brian russell, reggie miller, some random white guys.

yeah jordan played against shitty defensive teams


signed,

pistons, knicks, celtics.........


go ahead and tell me any other players that would score 50 and 60+ against those teams (while shooting over 50%)

[ttwarrior1]

tim duncan just played in an era without dominant centers. He is not better than p ewing or hakeem olajuwon who should be way up on the list.

[jubuck757]

So with all this Bird talk, where would Bird rank if he was playing in todays NBa Game.

[doublej95]

There was no tape of Wilt's game. Bryant will never sniff 81 again, fluke game.

This is like saying, Jordan would be garbage now because everyone is bigger, faster, can jump higher than him.

Jordan played against scrubs all his career, there was barely any tall athletic players at his position, now they are a dime a dozen.

Jordan said his toughest opponent was Mitch Richmond.

Jordan is really overrated if you start looking at it.

But its pointless comparing era's

You are smoking some good stuff bro. Jordan played in one of the greatest era of talent in the NBA. Here's just some of the Greatest Ever from that era.

Patrick Ewing
Larry Bird
Clyde Drexler
Karl Malone
John Stockton
Charles Barkley
Magic Johnson
Kareem
Isiah Thomas
David Robinson
Hakeem
Dominique Wilkens
Reggie Miller.

[Chandler]

just saw the list.

i'm very glad that Manute Bol made it