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Suns Most Important Player
I'm looking for a big performance from Pat Burke in Game 5. Every time Duncan goes up for a shot, Burke's fist better be making contact with Duncan's head, stomach, or groin.
If Tony Parker should be courageous enough to drive into the lane, I suppose there is a good reason why the Suns are paying Marcus Banks 2 million a year more than Barbosa and that reason is called a "classic undercut".
I understand being pissed about the two getting thrown out and Horry, but that is no reason to lower yourself and take it out on Duncan and Parker who have "Never" been known as dirty players or doing anything rough to the oposition to hurt them. I understand attack Bowen or Ginobli who have done dirty crap that has hurt people, but that is dang wrong to attack those that don't deserve it like Nash. He didn't deserve it last night and that was BS if they had hit Barbosa, Bell, or Amare who have done dirty stuff before then I wouldn't feel as bad for Pheonix being that it was against Nash I feel bad, but still can't agree with what you say.
The NBA has officially endorsed the thuggery by Robert Horry & co. The Suns have no chance without two of their starters, so let's get it on. NBA = WWF
At this point, with the series all but decided by the f*cking NBA, I would prefer to see this turn into an all-out brawl. Then let's see what the NBA decides for game 6, with no players left.
Last edited by Dark Horse; 05-16-07 at 12:46 AM.
Exactly. That is what the NBA deserves.Originally Posted by Dark Horse
I'm an asshole. I'm hoping to see injuries and bloodshed tonight on the court.
I just have a feeling that refs will be more sympathy to Suns in next game. Nash/Barbosa will drive like crazy to basket and get all the foul calls.
Without Amare and Diaw, the Suns have about three fouls on Thomas before Duncan has a free path to the basket every time. Forget it.
Only chance the Suns have is to take Duncan out of the game. Literally. Amare averages 31 pts in the postseason against the Spurs, so Duncan must go. Go Pat Burke!!! Do whatever it takes. Anything goes. Who knows, a few Spurs players may jump up from the bench in the process.
I agree 100%,but since the spurs want to play NFL rules,how about a good old fashioned chop block on Parker to level the playing field.Without the easy feeds,turtlehead Duncun seems lost.
The perfect timing of leveling Parker would be the time when Duncan is on the bench. Also the spot near spurs bench should yield maximum result.
What a bunch of whiners... I wish this board would have existed in 1997 when the Knicks got killed by this same rule, just so I could witness all the crying that would have gone on... The only difference being, the majority of you hate the Knicks and would have been cool with the suspensions of Ewing, Starks and co. It decided the series with the Heat and possibly even the entire championship, as that was a very good, very physical NYK team. Take your lumps and shut the f*ck up. Horry fouled Nash hard but in no way was that foul any harder than Jason Richardson's foul on a driving Kirelenko (or was it Harpring) at the tail end of game 4 of that series (a blatant blow towards the head). Same situation: team had blown a large lead at home in the playoffs in a seemingly must-win situation and frustration got the better of an otherwise level-headed guy. Horry has been a stand up guy for his entire career, but you guys judge him to be dirty by a frustration-based hard foul that was made worse by the Nash flop that made it look like he got shot by a cannonball from point-blank. You didn't see a bunch of Jazz get off the bench at the Richardson foul (or during any other Warrior meltdown in that series, for that matter). It's called maturity and discipline. To be honest, as a Spurs fan, I hate the suspensions because I think the Spurs would have been poised to win game 5 with no suspensions. They rebound well after blown games and I think they would have taken games 5 and 6. Now, you're looking at a Phoenix team that will be very emotional, refs that will not give the Spurs a break, and a very hungry Amare and Diaw in Game 6 at SA. And if the Spurs do win, it will be said (with decent enough reasoning) that the Spurs won BECAUSE of the NBA ruling. The NBA has to follow the damn rules, as crappy as they are.
What if the NBA came in and said that because of the tanking that went on this season, certain teams had fewer ping-pong balls. If you were a fan of Boston or Milwaukee and just lost out on a franchise player/marketable asset for the next 10-12 years because a rule was changed mid-stream then you would be irate, and rightfully so (though in all honesty, teams shouldn't get rewarded for tanking to get better lottery position). The NBA instituted an inane rule with absolutely nothing left to interpretation. MANDATORY suspension during an altercation means "no exceptions". Until that ridiculous rule is changed, then the NBA has to abide by the rule book. Does anyone actually believe that the NBA wants a San Antonio-Detroit matchup in the finals??? Absolutely not... At this point, their dream matchup would be Phoenix-Cleveland. But by having a rule in place that states "mandatory suspension" they set themselves up for this type of crap.
As for all of you meatheads who are wishing for a Duncan or Parker injury at the hands of Matt Barnes or Marcus Banks, well, you're classless, plain and simple.
Who's whining buddy? After every foul for many a season now? Your beloved Spurs.
Amare is worth 31 pts against the Spurs in the postseason. So it would only be fair to 'correct' the obvious mistake by Stu Jackson by taking out Duncan. But you don't need to worry. One problem is that the Suns, unlike the Spurs, are too classy of an organization to do that. The other is that the NBA is just as dirty as the Spurs. Reward the Spurs for a flagrant foul and obvious provocation with the game decided and the series shifted in the Suns favor. You have got to be kidding. The whole world is laughing at this display of ignorance. Got to give it to Pop, though. That was quick thinking. (Horry had just checked in).
I would love to see the birth of a separate basketball league, competing with the NBA, because the NBA has forever lost credibility with me. Never Believe Again.
Last edited by Dark Horse; 05-16-07 at 03:50 PM.
that's friggin' hilarious! you should watch some of these games now that the season's almost over
never occured to anyone that after Horry's elbow Nash pushed off of his right foot to leap into the side of the banner wall to make it look worse than what it would've been
are you sayin' Nash FLOPPED???? fackin' blasphemy! obviously Horry stabbed him with a shiv he cleverly fashioned from a gatorade cup and concealed in his shorts. i demand we burn this heretic austintx05 at the stake. Mods, ban this guy fer life. as has been clearly and coherently stated on a plethora of occasions in this forum, the Suns are way too classy for that sorta behavior. anybody on the dirty Spurs woulda flopped obviously
Last edited by The Prick; 05-16-07 at 04:48 PM.
I am saying Nash tried to help his cause and help paint the picture that the Spurs are a dirty team. Horry leaned into Nash, he didn't throw him. Big difference. Amare came out earlier and stated that the Spurs are a dirty team, why wouldn't Nash try and make that picture clearer?
First off, you're absolutely ignorant to call the Suns, unlike the Spurs, a classy organization. The Spurs, with David Robinson, Elliot, Avery Johnson, Duncan, Parker, Cummings, Porter, Mario Elie, Danny Ferry, Malik Rose, Elson, etc have been an exemplary franchise. No arrests for domestic assault, drugs, DWI's, assault (and if there were, that player was quickly shown the door). No drunken strip club jaunts to speak of. No on-court bravado to show how "street" they are. No hip-hop culture at all, to speak of. In fact, I absolutely, unequivocally despised the Spurs for a good 10 years (from 1992-2001) simply because I thought they lacked balls. I thought they were a castrated bunch of nancy-boys and I wanted no part of their religious vibe. As someone who played ball for a good number of years and still plays recreationally, I have always played with fire and passion and thought the Spurs lacked both. Then things changed. The Spurs got a little feistier and I began liking the team. Keep in mind, I used to sit courtside and taunt the Spurs players, beligerently. I started to see some fire and I grew to like them, particularly as Parker came into his own and Duncan grew a sac.
Bowen may be a cheap-shot artist, but I compare him to virtually every Detroit Piston player from the bad boy days: he's trying to gain a mental edge, but in his case it helps mask the physical inadequacies he possesses from a skill standpoint. He's not Latrell Sprewell or John Starks. He;s a legitimately good guy who does a hell of a lot more for the San Antonio community than any Sun does for their community (with the possible exception of Marion). As for Horry... He came into the game because it was the late 4th quarter of a sub-3 point game and he's known for clutch 3's. He's a standup guy in every sense of the word. You're absolutely delusional if you think the Spurs brought Horry in and said "Hey, when Nash gets the ball, he should be right near the scorer's table. Why not check him into the table and see if we can get Amare and Diaw thrown out of the game."
Dark Horse, I've never had a problem with you, and used to enjoy the halftime analyses you gave for NBA games. This time, your head is so far up your ass, and you are so bent out of shape that you can't actually put everything in the correct context. As a Spur fan, I think it's a shame that Amare and Diaw got suspended. I thought Horry should be given a 1-game suspension, mainly because the foul looked far worse than it actually was. The games have gotten chippy, but Nash running full steam into Horry (with Nash giving up 10 inches and 60 pounds or so) led to an inevitable collision that saw Nash get the worst of it. It was a 3-point game, for f$$k's sake. The Spurs weren't out of the game, by any stretch of the imagination. It was a frustration foul, plain and simple; a foul made by a great playoff player who was probably frustrated at his own incompetence in this series, as well as a Spur dd lead that had gotten quashed. To call the Spurs a classless team is just plain incorrect. Bowen may be a cheapshot artist, but you give me a great team of the past 15 years, and I'll give you a guy that gets in other people's heads. John Stockton was, without a doubt, one of the dirtiest players I've ever witnessed, but I respected the hell out of him. Same goes for McHale, Isiah Thomas, Bird (at times), Rodman, Laimbeer, Edjuardo Najera, Barkley, Bill Russell, Vernon Maxwell, and a list that can go on and on... It;s a shame that this happened. It really is. The Spurs would have been better off with no suspensions and an axe to grind. Now, the Suns will be playing with a head full of steam, the refs will call anything that remotely resembles contact (which benefits the Suns tremendously) and the Suns probably take game 5, then have a pissed off Amare back for game 6 in S.A.
As for Jackson not suspending Duncan, read the damn rule book then get back to me. There was no altercation on the play in question, so Duncan didn't fall under the mandatory suspension umbrella cast because of that stupid, inane rule. A rule is a rule. Amare and Diaw broke it. They got a raw deal in the sense that it is a crappy rule that should be updated and given some room for interpretation, rather than mandatory suspensions without looking at the bigger picture. Be angry... Hell, boycott the league if you want. But asking for a nonsensical retaliation to Duncan or Parker makes you a classless, short-sighted sadist, who may be in need of some counseling. Peace.
Interesting take from Bill Simmons (who I agree with on most every count on this issue):
Common sense vs. the NBA rule book
By Bill Simmons
Page 2
As much as I'd love to condemn the NBA higher-ups for ruining the Spurs-Suns series, I can't jeopardize the chances of them fixing the 2007 Lottery for my beloved Celtics. We desperately need one of the top two picks or I'm going to develop a serious drinking problem. Those are the stakes. Now, you could argue that a serious drinking problem would inject some much-needed life into my column, and you might even be right. But I'd rather avoid this scenario.
So here's my defense on the NBA's behalf ...
You can't blame them for the Stoudemire-Diaw suspensions because they correctly interpreted a stupid, idiotic, foolish, moronic, brainless, unintelligent, foolhardy, imprudent, thoughtless, obtuse and thickheaded rule. Can you blame them for having that rule in the first place? Yes. But you can't blame them for the actual interpretation -- after all, Stoudemire and Diaw did leave their bench during an altercation, just like Tom Brady's right arm was still coming down as Charles Woodson popped him in the Tuck Rule Game. Everyone knows about the leaving-the-bench rule. It's been around for more than a decade. It's the reason assistant coaches spin around during potential fights and hold their arms out like bouncers at a nightclub. It's the reason a really good Knicks team got bounced from the '97 playoffs (robbing everyone of a much-anticipated Bulls-Knicks Eastern Conference finals). It's also the reason why we haven't had a bench-clearing brawl since the rule was invented.
Here's the problem with that stupid, idiotic, foolish, moronic, brainless, unintelligent, foolhardy, imprudent, thoughtless, obtuse and thickheaded rule: It's currently designed as a black-or-white law that leaves no room for interpretation. As Barkley pointed out on TNT, Stoudemire and Diaw stopped after a few steps and never escalated the situation. In a way, it played out as poorly as the Tuck Rule did. In that playoff game against the Raiders, Brady pumped the football, brought it back down, got popped by Woodson and coughed up the ball. It should have been a fumble, but because of the stupid, idiotic, foolish, moronic, brainless, unwise unintelligent, foolhardy, imprudent, thoughtless, obtuse and thickheaded way that the Tuck Rule was designed, the play was interpreted correctly, the Patriots kept the ball and ended up winning in overtime.
The bothersome thing is that both rules should have been changed. After the Pats-Raiders game, the NFL should have softened that rule to leave some degree of interpretation depending on the game and the situation. Same with the NBA after the Knicks-Heat debacle in '97. Why didn't that happen? Because both leagues were so freaking stubborn and took so much heat for those two games, they obstinately kept the exact language of those rules in place. After all, a change of the rules would have been an admission that they failed. And as the old saying goes, those who forget the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them.
Sadly, regretfully, unfortunately, the Stoudemire-Diaw suspensions tainted a successful playoffs and inspired a record-setting number of fans to exhale in disgust, "That's it, I'm finally done with the NBA."
But there's a larger issue that everyone seems to be missing, an issue that keeps popping up during these playoffs in various forms and might be fixable: Namely, that the NBA turned the competitive sport of basketball into something else. It's still basketball, only it's a bastardized version of it. A certain amount of instinct and competitiveness has been compromised. Why? Because of the league's misguided attempt to create a fairy-tale universe where world-class athletes can play basketball without ever raising their voices, trash-talking, bumping bodies, exulting after a great play or rubbing each other the wrong way.
(You know what? Screw it, I can't defend the NBA. I just can't. If everything you're about to read ends up costing the Celtics a top-two pick, I apologize. Now hold on to your seats ... the pilot just turned off the "Don't hold back" sign.)
Three incidents/story lines from this year's playoffs inadvertently illustrated the deeper dilemna here:
1. Let's say you're one of the best seven players on the Phoenix Suns. You love Nash -- he's your emotional leader, your meal ticket to the Finals, the ideal teammate and someone who makes you happy to play basketball every day for a living. He's killing himself to win a championship. His nose was split open in Game 1. His back bothers him to the point that he has to lie down on the sidelines during breaks. He's battling a real cheap-shot artist (Bruce Bowen) who's trying to shove and trip him on every play. But he keeps coming and coming, and eventually, everyone follows suit. Just as things were falling apart in Game 4 and you were staring at the end of your season, he willed you back into the game and saved the day.
Suddenly, he gets body-checked into a press table for no real reason on an especially cheap play. You're standing 20 feet away. Instinctively, you run a few steps towards the guy who did it -- after all, your meal ticket is lying on the court in a crumpled heap -- before remembering that you can't leave your bench. So you go back and watch everything else unfold from there. Twenty-four hours later, you get suspended for Game 5 because your instincts as a teammate kicked in for 1.7 seconds.
Think about how dumb this is. What kind of league penalizes a teammate for reacting like a good teammate after his franchise player just got decked? Imagine you're playing pickup at a park, you're leading a game 10-3, your buddy is driving for the winning layup, and and some stranger clotheslines your buddy from behind and knocks him into the metal pole. Do you react? Do you take a couple of steps towards him? I bet you do. For the NBA to pretend they can create a fairy-tale league where these reactions can be removed from somebody's DNA -- almost like a chemical castration -- I mean, how stupid is that?
2. One of the running debates of these playoffs: Is Bruce Bowen a cheap player? I love the fact that anyone's actually debating this -- if your answer is "no," or your answer is "I'm not sure," then you've obviously never played basketball in your life. Bruce Bowen is a cheap player. There's no debate. He's not some clumsy power forward who can't stay out of his own way (like Mark Madsen), or even some uncoordinated center who can't remember to keep his elbows near his body (like Shawn Bradley). He's a world-class athlete who has complete control over every inch of his body at all times.
As anyone who's ever played basketball knows, with the exception of clumsy people who probably shouldn't be playing in the first place, there are no accidents on a basketball court. Your feet just don't coincidentally land under someone else's feet as they're shooting a jump shot, and you don't just coincidentally kick someone in the calf as they're going up for a layup or dunk. These things don't just happen. They don't. The only room for error happens when someone's trying to block a fastbreak layup or dunk, takes a roundhouse swipe and inadvertently ends up hitting his opponent's head instead of the ball (like we saw with Matt Barnes when he clocked Matt Harpring Tuesday night). When Jason Richardson nails Memo Okur at the end of Game 4 because he's pissed that Okur was driving at the tail end of a guaranteed win, or Baron Davis elbows Derek Fisher in the same game because he's ticked that the Warriors blew a winnable game ... those aren't accidents.
Anyway, for a world-class athlete with exceptional coordination, Bruce Bowen sure seems to have a lot of "accidents." They happen because of his style -- best described as "organized, physical chaos" -- and because he deliberately bends the rules for a competitive advantage. When he was breaking into the league, Bowen played for the Celtics from 1997 to 1999, back when I was living in Boston and attending nearly every game. He was just as good defensively back then -- quicker, even -- but couldn't shoot to save his life (41 percent his first year, 28 percent his second year), and more importantly, he was a soft player. Opponents pushed him around, refs didn't give him any respect, even his own coach (Rick Pitino) screamed at him constantly. Since Bowen seemed like such a nice guy, and he tried so freaking hard, everyone who attended those games found themselves feeling sorry for him. As gifted as he was defensively, I never imagined him making it because of his dreadful shooting and beaten-down, little-kid-getting-picked-on-in-class demeanor. He just needed one person to believe in him ... and Rick Pitino wasn't it.
When he finally made it in San Antonio a few years later, I wasn't shocked because there's always a place in the NBA for someone with a specific skill (whether it's long-range shooting, rebounding, defense or whatever), but I was shocked by his much-improved 3-point shooting (44 percent in 2003?????) and newfound intensity. Watching him hound offensive players was like watching Beecher torment Schillinger after he finally snapped in "Oz." Where did this come from??? Suddenly, Bowen was willing to bend the rules, trip guys as they landed after jump shots, bump them when they weren't looking and basically do anything to get into their heads, all while doing the whole "Wait, I'm in trouble??? What????" routine and pretending to be shocked any time anyone threatened to kick his ass. Which happens every couple of months. There's no doubt in my mind -- absolutely none -- that at some point between Boston and San Antonio, Bruce Bowen decided to do whatever it took to remain in the NBA. Even if it meant becoming a dirty player.
Now here's where the NBA failed: For a league that professes to be concerned about dirty play and any situation that could lead to a brawl, the league has curiously looked the other way with the single dirtiest player in the league. If he pulled this crap on a pickup court, or even in college intramurals, somebody would have punched Bowen in the face and broken his jaw. In the NBA? He gets to keep doing his thing and putting other players in danger. In the Phoenix series alone, he tripped Stoudemire from behind on a dunk in Game 2, kneed Nash in the groin in Game 3 and tried to knock Nash off balance in Game 5 as they were running back upcourt (causing a frustrated Nash to elbow him in the chops). The league penalizes two Phoenix stars for instinctively running towards an injured teammate, but they don't penalize a perpetually dirty player who's eventually going to trigger an ugly brawl before the end of his career?
How the hell does that make sense?
In the current NBA, you can't commit a hard foul, you can't trash-talk another player, you can't pull your shirt up after a roof-raising dunk, you can't protect a teammate who just got knocked into a press table. We have these rules -- I'm guessing -- because any of those actions can lead to an ugly fight. Ever since the Bad Boys Pistons and Riley's Knicks tried to turn the NBA into the WWF in the late-'80s and early-'90s, nearly every rule change was created to prevent ugly incidents, even if some of those rule changes compromised the competitiveness of the league in the process. Well, if that's the case, how could the league allow Bruce Bowen to keep running amok with no repercussions? Can you think of a better candidate to trigger an ugly fight some day than Bruce Bowen? Why do they allow him to keep doing what he's doing? Seriously, does the NBA have a clue?
(On second thought, don't answer that.)
3. The single most disgusting NBA development of the past few years? The flopping. Slowly, regretfully, inexplicably, the sport is morphing into soccer -- as exemplified by Kirilenko's swan dive near the end of Tuesday's Jazz-Warriors game that fouled out Matt Barnes, or Kirk Hinrich's perfectly designed flopparoo to draw Chauncey Billups' fourth foul in Detroit Tuesday. I blame the influx of European players for this trend because flopping has always been an acceptable part of soccer; they grew up watching that crap and understood that it could work in basketball as well, especially if you have a group of largely incompetent referees calling the action. So it started a few years ago, it's gotten worse and worse, and now, it's affecting the overall competitiveness of these games.
Here's the problem: Because we don't have any anti-flopping rules, it behooves defenders to fall backwards every time a low-post player lowers his shoulder, and it behooves them to slide under airborne players and plant their feet for a charge (even if they might end up breaking the guy's neck in the process). Not to keep bringing up the pickup basketball analogy, but geez ... can you imagine if somebody pulled this crap during a game among friends? The prevailing reactions would be, "What the hell are you doing?" and "If you do that again, I'm gonna sock you." But because the NBA refuses to do anything about the flopping, it's evolved into a savvy defensive maneuver. For instance, if you're Barnes and you're giving up 50 pounds to Boozer on the low post, there's only two ways you're stopping him: Go for a strip if he puts the ball on the ground, or jump backwards if he's dumb enough to lower his shoulder as he's turning around. Those are your two options.
Is that basketball? Hell, no! In fact, when I was a little kid -- and I swear to God, this happened -- a guard named Mike Newlin flopped to draw a charge from the great Dave Cowens, a fiery Hall of Famer who played with a remarkable level of passion and fury, to the degree that he burned himself out after 7-8 years. Completely and utterly outraged that Newlin committed such a phony act of sportsmanship, Cowens berated the ref who made the call, yelled at him some more, then started running back on defense when he noticed Newlin dribbling up the court. Now, our seats were at midcourt, so this happened right in front of us and nearly caused me to pee my pants -- as Cowens was running, he snapped and suddenly charged Newlin like a free safety, bodychecked him at full speed (much, MUCH harder than Horry's foul on Nash) and sent poor Newlin careening into the press table at about 35 miles per hour. Then he turned to the same ref and screamed ...
"NOW THAT'S A F------G FOUL!"
Did Cowens get kicked out of the game? Of course. But there's a moral to the story. Once upon a time, these guys had a code of honor. They played hard, respected the game, defended their teammates, and if anyone stepped out of line, there was always someone that would take care of them -- whether it was another player, a referee, a coach or whatever. When fights or altercations happened, they were considered natural side effects of a physical sport. When two players talked smack, it was considered a good thing, a sign that the game was heating up, that we were potentially headed for a more competitive place.
In fact, during the golden era of the NBA (1984-1993), three of the most inspired/famous/memorable moments, in retrospect, were McHale's clothesline of Rambis in the '84 Finals, MJ standing over Ewing after a hard foul and swearing at him in the '92 playoffs, and Parish getting fed up with Bill Laimbeer's crap, taking justice into his own hands and clocking him in Game 5 of the '87 playoffs. Why do those moments still resonate? Because there was a level of competitiveness back then that doesn't exist anymore -- it's been beaten out of these guys, partly because the league has been terrified of another Kermit Washington moment for 30 years, partly because the SportsCenter Era (where we show the same highlight six million times and pretend to be appalled) made the decision-makers too skittish (to the degree that Carmelo Anthony was suspended for 15 games for slapping another player).
Personally, I don't believe Kermit's punch could happen again -- it was the perfect storm of an NBA brawl, a powerful 6-foot-9 guy whirling around during a fight, then delivering a perfect straight right (seriously, that was like the right that Tommy Hearns threw to drop Roberto Duran) to the face of a peacemaker (Rudy Tomjanovich) who was running towards him at full speed and forgot to protect himself. Kermit's punch was a complete fluke. Repeat: a complete fluke. And yet, every decision made in the past 30 years keeps coming back to that one punch; it's the equivalent of a NASCAR driver dying after an accident that started because of one driver bumping another jumper from behind, followed by NASCAR banning bumping and completely removing that element from the sport.
In other words, it would be a complete overreaction. You know, kind of like the Stoudemire/Diaw suspension.
So don't blame the NBA higher-ups for the way they interpreted that stupid, idiotic, foolish, moronic, brainless, unintelligent, foolhardy, imprudent, thoughtless, obtuse and thickheaded rule. Blame them for having the rule itself. Blame them for allowing the league to morph into something that doesn't quite resemble basketball anymore. Blame them for a league in which basketball players aren't totally allowed to think and act like basketball players and teammates aren't totally allowed to think and act like teammates. Blame them for an ongoing double standard in which the Bruce Bowens of the league can willfully endanger other players, but a roundhouse swipe on an attempted block can get someone ejected if they miss by a scant 10 inches while moving at full speed. Blame them for dubious officiating that's compromised the playoffs to the degree that an increasing number of fans are wondering where the WWE ends and the NBA begins.
And speaking of blame ... if you want to skip tonight's Game 5 between the Suns and Spurs, I can't blame you.
Bill Simmons is a columnist for Page 2 and ESPN The Magazine. His book "Now I Can Die In Peace" is available in paperback.
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One final, practical point... Watch the replay on youtube. It was a 2-point game and Manu missed a layup with under 24 seconds. The Spurs had to foul and tried to foul Nash immediately after he got the ball (I think it was Finley), but didn't get whistled. Nash drove right into a waiting Horry. Horry didn't launch himself into Nash. Nash ran right into Horry, thenacted like he got shot out of a cannon (he was giving up a ton of size, but he was running full steam into a stalled player, yet Horry didn't budge--either Horry is the strongest player in the history of the league or Nash embellished a hard foul just a tad). Regardless, there were 16 seconds left and the Spurs were down by 2. Nash missed a FT, so if they would not have called Horry for a flagrant, the Spurs would have had the ball, down 3, with 16 seconds remaining. It was a stupid foul by Horry that may have cost the Spurs the game and I do believe it was whistled correctly as a flagrant. But when Dark Horse implies that Horry checked into a game in which the Spurs had the ball and were down by 2, simply for the purpose of flagrantly fouling Nash, effectively ending any chance the Spurs had of winning a somewhat winnable game... Just crazy, talking out of the ass talk... OK, that's it for me on this topic (for now). I'm going to wait until 10 minutes before tipoff and make a semi-decent sized play on Phoenix if the price is right. Any FT related props for Phoenix will also be getting hit...
Baba, I liked the Spurs until Ginobili started to flop. And flop. And flop. And flop. And flop. You get the picture. That decided games and series. The refs fell for it, it became a disease, and now look at the league. It's the f*cking flop league. (Big difference between drawing an offensive foul and flopping. Spurs were the first to perfect the art of flopping).
Do I think that Horry tried to provoke the Suns on purpose? Yes. I only have to go back to game three to see Horry's mindset in action. He put his arms around Amare under the basket and fell backward, pulling Amare with him, to make it look as if Amare pushed him. The guy knows the trick book and knows it well. He also knows life on the bench. I don't believe for a second that that was a frustration foul by one of the league's most experienced players.
I understand you don't like to hear it, but the Spurs have become a dirty team. I used to feel sorry for Duncan to play with such a group of players. I also like Parker. But they've had plenty of time to tell their teammates how to play (as Nash does when someone is out of line). By their acceptance, they have become part of it.
The difference with the Suns is that when they play hard, they still do so honest. They Spurs are sneaky about their dirty play, as if they have studied the subject indepth.
Tonight the Suns won't stand a chance. The series was decided by a ridiculous interpretation of a ridiculous rule. And yes, the reason Duncan and Bowen came unto the court was that an altercation seemed likely. It never happened. But if you study the tape you will see that the altercation was yet to happen when Amare and Diaw rushed towards their hurt teammate. The little fight was after that. So... the probably reason the other situation was ignored was that the media weren't all over it. Heck, Stu Jackson may not even have seen the tape, the way he approaches his job. At least we can't accuse Stu Jackson of intelligent life.
Last edited by Dark Horse; 05-16-07 at 05:58 PM.
FWIW, I'm pretty sure the Suns were up by 3 pts (100-97), with the ball and 0:18 left, and I'm certain that your interpretation of Horry's bodycheck is wrong.
Why on earth would Nash catapult himself into the scorer's table? Because your team doesn't play dirty? Nash wanted to dribble out the clock, and knew he would get fouled, which would have put up the Suns by two scores. Game over.
As to the reason why Nash ran so fast. I go back to last year's playoff game against the Lakers, that the Suns had won, if not Nash had gotten trapped at the sideline, and the refs hadn't given a jumpball when Luke Walton, with his foot clearly out of bounds, got a hand on the ball. Refs were right on top of the play, but may not have seen Walton's foot because they were too busy ignoring the Suns screams for a timeout. Jumpball to Kobe, Kobe scores. Game over.
And we bet on this sh*t. Unf*cking believable.
Last edited by Dark Horse; 05-16-07 at 06:31 PM.
100-97 with the ball when Horry checked in (obviously to put him in, in case the Spurs missed a shot so he could check Nash into the scorer's table and get Amare suspended, had nothing to do with his past playoff heroics from the 3 point line). After the technical made it 100-98, Nash made one FT and missed another to make it 101-98. So, I stand somewhat corrected on that issue.
As for Game 3, I was about 20 feet from that play. Their arms were tangled up on an inbounds play (with 2 seconds on the damn shot clock for Phoenix) and Amare flopped and pushed Horry down in front of him. I was courtside, center court and sober, and can tell you that Eddie Rush, after the play, got an earful from me. I said, "Eddie, since when does getting thrown down constitute a foul" (word for word) and he looked over at me and said "I didn't blow the whistle" (word for word). Then I said "It was a horrible call and you know it." to which he smiled and made a gesture with his hand, like waving it back and forth as if to say "It was iffy" while he put the whistle in his mouth to prepare for the second free throw that a Spur was shooting (I can;t remember who it was because I was so pissed. Why on earth would Horry risk picking up a foul with 2 seconds on the shot clock, when it was clear that Amare wasn't getting the inbounds pass? He was stacked behind two other people about 10 feet from the hoop. Look, I hate flopping and am in complete favor of the NBA making flopping some kind of foul (not sure how it would work, but something needs to be done). I also think the "Lebowski-rule" as my friends and I have been referring to it (the "OVER THE LINE!!!" scene--if you've seen the movie) should be altered so that it permits interpretation. I don't think Amare and Diaw should have been suspended based on the actual play, but I do think that the NBA has to abide by its own rulebook to maintain any semblance of integrity. The league has become a bona fide laughingstock. Think about the ridiculous crap the fans have had to endure in the past 2 years, alone.
-The crazy wardrobe rule (Why in the hell should Allen Iverson not get to wear his Sean John gear after a game?, why does he need to dress like he's going to a fancy dinner after a hard fought game, in which he got physically pounded? Why can't Lebron James wear leggings if he wants? What's with the Ben Wallace headband deal?)
-Approximately 1/4 of the teams tanking games to get better lottery position. Seriously, if I was a fan of the Bucks or Celtics, I'd want them to tank, but if I was a season ticket holder, taking my daughter or son to a game and attempting to explain that losing is winning, I'd feel like I was losing my soul.
-The ridiculously horrendous officiating... I mean, has there ever been a more egregiously horrific season from an officiating standpoint in any major sport, ever, in the history of sports? Maybe before I was born but not since I can recall.
-The flopping (I hate Manu when he does it), the whining (and yes, I hate it when Duncan does his "bulging eyes in disbelief" routine--it drives me crazy), the inability to get away with a hard foul because they're called flagrants (see GS-Utah Game 5) when Stephen Jackson did nothing to warrant a flagrant. Absolutely nothing. Of course, they T'd him up for arguing afterwards, then slapped Barnes with another misapplied flagrant. I hate the fact that the Spurs have become labeled a dirty team by a guy who travels every other time he touches the ball and now that label will forever torment this particular team, all because they have 1 player who gets his edge by playing dirty. Nevermind the fact that this Spur team would get absolutely demolished if it didn't play physical basketball. The personnel dictates a physical style of play. I absolutely despise the rules that prohibit players from showing emotion, talking smack, and generally being competitive. It's absurd. A couple loose cannons like Spree, Artest and Rasheed are able to influence the league to the point that the rulebook is completely altered to allow for absolutely no emotion. Baron Davis gets T'd up after celebrating one of the most ferocious playoff dunks of the past decade... I'm fed up with the league too, but I draw the line at recommending bench players with no value (like Burke and Banks) taking out Duncan and Parker by intentionally trying to hurt them. It's sad that anyone would come up with such a foolish idea. Here's a thought for Phoenix fans: You still have Nash (better than Parker), Marion (better than Manu, Barry, Finley), Barbosa (ditto), Bell (like Bowen but with an offensive game as well), and Kurt Thomas to check Duncan. Rally around your leader (Nash) and come out and take this damn game. That means Marion has to play like the all-star he feels he is, Barbosa has o play much better than he did in Game 3, when he was awful, and why not get a little physical while you're at it. But sending in a goon to take out a team's best player is not cool.
By the way, I loved this post. Sarcasm at its very finest. Bravo Prick.
You may have been center court side, but the tv camera was right behind the basket and Amare was pulled out of bounds by Horry. Even on the replay. The refs didn't buy it. Why on earth would Horry, a bench player, not try to get a foul on Amare? That seemed half their game plan in game 3. Get Amare fouls. It worked to perfection.
We agree on most of the other stuff. My anger is with the NBA, and from that perspective I wouldn't mind seeing a brawl tonight. I know it won't happen, because the Suns are a very classy organization. D'Antoni wouldn't allow it. The Suns will play hard and come up short, their season and maybe best chance at a NBA championship destroyed by one f*cking moron behind a desk.
why do we say the Suns ar out of it? If Nash was suspended, then I would say they are, but Amare is not the offense...Nash uses everyone and doesn't have favs...just open "receivers"...kinda reminds me of Brady in his mentality...this never believe shit is stupid...understand the game, the rules and learn how to deal with it....
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