[dlunc3]

At this stage of his career? Look back 20 years ago... Jordan was no different then Lebron. People hated on him just like they have hated on Lebron. He couldn't win in college his last two years without Worthy... then he couldn't win his first 5 years in the NBA until he got Pip, Phil, ect... Everyone hated on him saying he would never be Magic.... Sound familiar? People say he has the killer instinct that lebron doesn't have, and that he just flat out loved to win more then anyone... My question is, where was this instinct and love to win those 7 straight years before he got some help? Again, sounds familiar..

Luckily for Jordan, he played for a big market team who was able to bring some pieces in around him. Lebron on the other hand, was on a small market team who refused to bring big names in... so as expected, as people do in life, they move up in the world and go where they can be successful.. Lebron got a team around him and is now is a yearly contender to win titles at age 27, just as Jordan was..

Arrogant Jordan left the game (for gambling reasons?) and thought he could be the best at everything... thought he could pick up and immediately become a pro baseball player.. We all know how that worked out.. Arrogant Lebron held a tv show thinking he's the man, just as Jordan thought... Both young and stupid...

Both seem like complete dickheads in all honesty... but on the court, at this point in his career, at age 28... Is there an argument against saying Lebron has accomplished as much as the greatest player that has ever lived at this stage in life?

[dlunc3]

age 27*

[meader99]

I would say you could argue that instead of Lebron getting people to join him in Cleveland, he bolted to a team that already had a Superstar that knew what it took to win a title and then needed to recruit another superstar to join him. Could you imagine MJ saying screw this, I'm going to New York to team up with Ewing and I'm bringing Karl Malone with me? I think besides the TV show, the animosity comes from James joining forces on someones elses team instead of building his own. Magic and Bird didn't want to be teammates, they wanted to beat each other. That's the difference between James and MJ.

[million2one]

Great comparisons, I will hold MJ above Lebron until Lebron starts to win multiple rings.

I think Lebron is a much more gifted person in terms of his physique, but MJ is a more driven athlete.
MJ hated to lose and I don't get that sense about Lebron.
It seems to me like MJ had to work to be the best and Lebron had already been given everything.
Only time will tell, I have gained respect for Lebron through this series, but no where near Jordan, not yet.

[million2one]

Magic and Bird didn't want to be teammates, they wanted to beat each other. That's the difference between James and MJ.

My thoughts exactly

[dlunc3]

I would say you could argue that instead of Lebron getting people to join him in Cleveland, he bolted to a team that already had a Superstar that knew what it took to win a title and then needed to recruit another superstar to join him. Could you imagine MJ saying screw this, I'm going to New York to team up with Ewing and I'm bringing Karl Malone with me? I think besides the TV show, the animosity comes from James joining forces on someones elses team instead of building his own. Magic and Bird didn't want to be teammates, they wanted to beat each other. That's the difference between James and MJ.

So should lebron have continued to drown in Cleveland? What other player in NBA history has done that? Jordan didn't have to, Kobe didn't have to, Magic didn't have to, Bird didn't have to... They all had great players brought to them. Was lebron supposed to rot in cleveland by himself? What sense would that have made? Ewing is an ok example, but even still, not only did he have much better surrounding casts as lebron did, but he was playing for a huge market team in NY. Why would lebron stay in Cleveland just to rot and waste away?? Look at Joe Mauer... How is that working out for him? Sure, he is a great guy, so good for him for staying at home.. but the twins suck and will never give him a chance at greatness..

Even kobe... remember a few years back when kobe was ready to bolt to Chicago? until they brought in pau? none of the greatest in history have ever won it without hall of fame players next to them.. why do we expect lebron to?

[dlunc3]

Great comparisons, I will hold MJ above Lebron until Lebron starts to win multiple rings.

I think Lebron is a much more gifted person in terms of his physique, but MJ is a more driven athlete.
MJ hated to lose and I don't get that sense about Lebron.
It seems to me like MJ had to work to be the best and Lebron had already been given everything.
Only time will tell, I have gained respect for Lebron through this series, but no where near Jordan, not yet.

no doubt, jordan is miles ahead of lebron still... and will be for years.. and honestly, lebron most likely will never catch him..

but where was this drive and hatred to lose jordans previous 7 years before he got a team around him? noone can do it on their own.. idk why we expect lebron to...

I understand peoples hate for the "decision"... but gotta get over that seriously.. it was a stupid 25 year old. How about looking at the fact that that same 25 year old took less money for the sake of the team? Personally, I try to look at what they do on the court, not off it... both are rich scumbags and there is really noway around it

[meader99]

Kobe was never coming to Chicago. If you fell for that bluff then shame on you. I wuold rather just sit back and wait until we get to the end of Lebron's career before we compare him to the greatest to ever lace em up. And yeah, Lebron is a freak, had an NBA body as a junior in high school.

[mv09]

LeBron is a better driver and passer.

Jordan was a better shooter and defender.

The perception, true or not, is that Jordan was good in the clutch and James is not.

Also, Jordan has rings which I don't believe to be a great argument for individual success especially when stuck on a shit team. Sorry, but James could have been a mix of Jordan, Bird, and Magic and he would have never won multiple rings in Cleveland.

Messi may be the best player of all time, but he's never going to win a World Cup with Argentina.

Rings are tiebreakers, not the #1 criteria determine how great a player was. Championships are valid when it comes to individual sports, such as Golf and Tennis .. not sports such as Football.

...and this is coming from a Jordan fan

[dlunc3]

Kobe was never coming to Chicago. If you fell for that bluff then shame on you. I wuold rather just sit back and wait until we get to the end of Lebron's career before we compare him to the greatest to ever lace em up. And yeah, Lebron is a freak, had an NBA body as a junior in high school.

idk, if they kept missing the playoffs and he was by himself, i think he woulda left first chance he had....

and yea, nowhere near jordan yet.. but pretty damn impressive first 8 years of his career imo.. To be thought of as one of the greatest all time, you need rings... none has ever won rings on their own, and lebron knew that. He gave cleveland 6 yrs and his "pippen" or "shaq" or "kareem" was nowhere to be found.. so he went and got it.. Cant blame a guy for not wanting to waste what could be a brilliant career on a small market cleveland team all alone..

[dlunc3]

LeBron is a better driver and passer.

Jordan was a better shooter and defender.

The perception, true or not, is that Jordan was good in the clutch and James is not.

Also, Jordan has rings which I don't believe to be a great argument for individual success especially when stuck on a shit team. Sorry, but James could have been a mix of Jordan, Bird, and Magic and he would have never won multiple rings in Cleveland.

Messi may be the best player of all time, but he's never going to win a World Cup with Argentina.

Rings are tiebreakers, not the #1 criteria determine how great a player was. Championships are valid when it comes to individual sports, such as Golf and Tennis .. not sports such as Football.

...and this is coming from a Jordan fan

great post

only argument i have is your clutch argument... if you are considering last second game winners as the only definition of clutch, you are correct... But I think Lebron leading the league ALL TIME in ppg in elimination games is also a great definition of clutch... I also consider 4th quarter performance clutch, in which lebron had the #2 4th quarter efficiency in the nba this season.. and other then the dallas series last yr, has been a monster in the 4th quarters of playoff games his whole career. Also consider the fact that all his numbers go up in the playoffs (in comparison to regular season), a pretty clutch stat.. but thats just me..

good post though, I like your views

[jsmithj88]

Kobe was never coming to Chicago. If you fell for that bluff then shame on you. I wuold rather just sit back and wait until we get to the end of Lebron's career before we compare him to the greatest to ever lace em up. And yeah, Lebron is a freak, had an NBA body as a junior in high school.

ur just assuming it was a bluff. u think kobe would still be a laker had they not gotten gasol?
i doubt he was happy about having to drop 35ppg only to get knocked out in round 1

[dlunc3]

im also not sure about jordan being a better defender... lebron has shown he can lock down durrant this series.. the guy can guard any position on the court, from pg to center.. could anyone else in history ever do that? jordan was a great defender, but lebron is no slouch.. led the league in all defensive team votes this yr...

jordan was a better scorer no doubt about it... lebron better facilitator, rebounder and defender imo

[meader99]

ur just assuming it was a bluff. u think kobe would still be a laker had they not gotten gasol?
i doubt he was happy about having to drop 35ppg only to get knocked out in round 1

You think as much as he tried to emulate MJ over his whole career that he wanted to spend the downside of it in MJ's shadow???

[dlunc3]

You think as much as he tried to emulate MJ over his whole career that he wanted to spend the downside of it in MJ's shadow???

he was still arguably in his prime at this point... maybe not chicago, but no chance he wastes away the rest of his career with no chance of winning again.. i will never blame a guy for moving up in life. Kobe at least already played for a big market team.. but man, which of these all time greats have been from a small market team? or have played without at least 1 hall of fame sidekick?

[meader99]

LeBron is a better driver and passer.

Jordan was a better shooter and defender.

The perception, true or not, is that Jordan was good in the clutch and James is not.

Also, Jordan has rings which I don't believe to be a great argument for individual success especially when stuck on a shit team. Sorry, but James could have been a mix of Jordan, Bird, and Magic and he would have never won multiple rings in Cleveland.

Messi may be the best player of all time, but he's never going to win a World Cup with Argentina.

Rings are tiebreakers, not the #1 criteria determine how great a player was. Championships are valid when it comes to individual sports, such as Golf and Tennis .. not sports such as Football.

...and this is coming from a Jordan fan

I don't know if James is a better driver. He's a freakin bull in a china shop, BUT MJ played in a different era where hand checking was legal and he still got to the rim at will. Not to say that James couldn't get to the rim with the legal hand checks, but he doesn't have to deal with it. One of the things that really separate the two to me is MJ's post game.

[meader99]

he was still arguably in his prime at this point... maybe not chicago, but no chance he wastes away the rest of his career with no chance of winning again.. i will never blame a guy for moving up in life. Kobe at least already played for a big market team.. but man, which of these all time greats have been from a small market team? or have played without at least 1 hall of fame sidekick?

I'm not blaming him for moving up in life. I am not even blaming him for goign to Miami. What I said is I believe that a lot of animosity he receives comes from the fact that he joined forces on another superstars team. Wade already had a ring. He wasn't under the same pressure and scrutiny as James.From an outsiders perspective, including a lot of hall of fame basketball players, it looks like he took the easy way out by doing that as opposed to recruiting guys to come to Cleveland.

[dlunc3]

I don't know if James is a better driver. He's a freakin bull in a china shop, BUT MJ played in a different era where hand checking was legal and he still got to the rim at will. Not to say that James couldn't get to the rim with the legal hand checks, but he doesn't have to deal with it. One of the things that really separate the two to me is MJ's post game.

MJ was better at scoring the ball in every aspect other then maybe transition game... but really, when it comes to scoring lebron has a long way to go still to come close to mj.. its the fact that he can dominate the game in so many ways that makes me see some flashes of greatness

[dlunc3]

watch out if some of these vets decide to go to miami.... if lebron gets a bench like mj had along with the current pieces on this team, we could have a real conversation comparing the two in 5/7 years

[jsmithj88]

You think as much as he tried to emulate MJ over his whole career that he wanted to spend the downside of it in MJ's shadow???

didnt have to be chicago, he wanted to be traded, that was not a bluff
teammates like kwame, luke walton, smush parker, oooooooooooh yea, kobe wanted to stay a laker