[dlunc3]

How did he play vs your bulls? Or better yet, how did rose play?

[zsr]

Lol how did he play in the finals?

Or better yet, how'd your sixers do?
Or better yet, how'd your eagles do?

Don't worry, i don't blame you for being a bandwagon fan when neither team you root for has won a championship in the last 40 years or even gotten close.

[zsr]

You root for the front runner in every league, but the funny thing is, they still lose

Almost as funny as when you said the giants and the 49ers were terrible and would do nothing in the playoffs

[dlunc3]

Sixers or phillies havent won in 40 years? Weren't you the one that told me that the eagles would have fun watching the bears in the playoffs this yr? Hmm... Again, im not a heat or lebron fan.. but even an idiot can see he is a better individual player then kobe has ever been

[zsr]

Weren't you the one who said the eagles would beat the bears by 10+?

Lebron is the single reason they didn't win the championship. Period.

Kobe would have 2 rings with those Cleveland teams. Your too ignorant too actually understand how good those teams were because all you see is the names. You think Lebron single handedly won 66 games and made them an elite defense and offensive rebounding team, but they didn't win in the playoffs because of his teammates, surely even an idiot can see how stupid that statement is

[dlunc3]

Thinking kobe would have won a championship with those Cleveland teams is the dumbest comment I have ever seen on this forum. The surrounding cast he had just last yr would smash any surrounding cast he ever had in Cleveland and he was swept in the playoffs with that team.

[zsr]

Why because of name recognition

Kobe would have won two rings with those Cleveland teams. End of story.

It's fun to play hypothetical when it helps your argument but not when it doesn't, huh?

The dumbest thing I've ever heard on this forum is you saying Lebron was the reason they had an elite defender, rebounding, etc and dominated the regular season but his teammates are the reason they didn't win a title

[dlunc3]

One player can only take you so far (see your 2011 chicago bulls or 2001 Allen iverson)... You saying that lebrons surrounding cast in Cleveland was better then a surrounding cast that includes pau gasol, Andrew Bynum, lamar odom (without mentioning solid vets with experience like fisher and artest) to go along with the best coach in history is absolutely absurd. Lol kobe had the best 6th man in the nba, the best 4/5 combo (2nd best center and top 3 or 4 pf) and the best coach in the nba.. but your right, lebrons team ful of journeymen role players was better

[zsr]

Full of journeyman that had elite defense every year, elite offensive rebounding, and won 66 games? How did they dominate the regular season literally every single season if they team was so bad

Also, Lebron had the greatest roster of all time last year and the result was the EXACT same, who would have guessed? funny how you always leave that out

[kobefanatic]

ok thats 2 things... now should we name the 20 things lebron is better at?

i am still waiting

[dlunc3]

i am still waiting

1) scoring (debate all you want, but lebron has the same amount of seasons averaging 28+ as kobe, yet he is only 27 and doenst have to take 25 shots per night)

2) passing

3) dunking

4) getting to the ft line

5) driving

6) running the court

7) blocking

8) steals

9) shooting % mid range

10) shooting % inside

11) offensive rebounding

12) defensive rebounding

13) fouls less

14) better condition (can handle more minutes per game)

15) stronger

16) faster

17) taller (yes all three of these factors go into how great a player is)

18) better EFF regular season

19) better EFF post season (lebrons gets better in the post season, kobes gets worse)

20) leadership... kobe lobbies to have his players traded (shaq and bynum).. lebron encourages and makes the players around him better, not just himself

should i keep going?

[dlunc3]

Full of journeyman that had elite defense every year, elite offensive rebounding, and won 66 games? How did they dominate the regular season literally every single season if they team was so bad

Also, Lebron had the greatest roster of all time last year and the result was the EXACT same, who would have guessed? funny how you always leave that out

lets evaluate for a second....

kobes surrounding casts that have lost in the finals in comparison to lebrons cavs surrounding cast in which kobe would have "won two rings with" (wonder why lebrons player EFF has always been high then kobes in the playoffs, but kobe would have won ) :

2004
Rick fox
Derek Fisher
Devean George
Horace Grant
Karl Malone
Shaq
Gary Payton
Kareem Rush
Byrun Russell
Coach: Phil Jackson

2007
Jordan Farmar
Derek Fisher
Sasha Vujacic
Trevor Ariza
Radmanovic
Lamar Odom
Ronny Turiaf
Andrew Bynum
Pau Gasol
Coach: Phil Jackson


compared to:
daniel gibson
drew gooden
larry hughes
big Z
damon jones
donyell marshall
dwayne jones (who my high school team beat )
donyell marshall
ira newble
sasha paviovic
scott pollard
eric snow
anderson verajeo
david wesley


ARE YOU SERIOUS??? WHO WAS GOOD ON THAT ROSTER? SERIOUSLY? DREW GOODEN

those rosters arent even close... if those rosters played each other with lebron and kobe on the sideline those la teams would sweep the series every single time and its not even close... to say kobe would have won a ring with that team is the most ridiculous this i have ever heard... if he couldnt win with those listed laker teams, no chance in hell he even gets to the finals with that cavs team

[zsr]

Are you seriously just looking at names? your more clueless about basketball then you are football, and that's saying alot.

Top 5 defense, top 5 offensive rebounding, completely dominated regular season every year. But wait, that's just because of Lebron right? Then in the playoffs it's his teammates fault right?

Hey, what happened last year, pal?

[dlunc3]

your right... if those teams played each other, that cavs team led by drew gooden would win

[dlunc3]

im still looking for the bears playoff game.. what time are they on?

we both obviously were wrong about our teams this season... get over it.. all I know is that it is the offseason.. and going into next season, vegas has the eagles as #4 and the bears at #15

[zsr]

Oh no, not the Vegas argument again

Eagles were favorites this year so they were a lock right?

They were td favorites over the bears so they were a lock right?


I'm looking for that eagles double digit victory over the bears? Or the eagles "stone cold lock" to make the playoffs?

You really shouldn't talk shit when literally every single thing you said turned out wrong.

[zsr]

Are you seriously just looking at names? your more clueless about basketball then you are football, and that's saying alot.

Top 5 defense, top 5 offensive rebounding, completely dominated regular season every year. But wait, that's just because of Lebron right? Then in the playoffs it's his teammates fault right?

Hey, what happened last year, pal?

Of course no response to this, instead you start to talk football

[dlunc3]

and im still looking for the bears in the playoffs... what channel are they on?
get over it.. your team has no talent and is on its way down

philly is loaded with talent and on its way up.. sorry idk what more you wanna hear

at this point, again, ill side with vegas as we all know they win in the longrun.. you stick with that cute little #15 team and winning as a long shot every now and then ... does cutlers little knee feel any better these days?

[dlunc3]

Of course no response to this, instead you start to talk football

This was my response:

"your right... if those teams played each other, that cavs team led by drew gooden would win "


lebron elevates his teams and makes them better... without him, those teams are garbage and even you know they would have no chance vs those laker teams

[dlunc3]

hey bol in the playoffs... ill be looking for ya

[zsr]

Hey I'll be looking for the eagles 6-10 this year. Eagles have no talent and are on the way down, maybe your quarterback can play a full game this year right? Philly hasnt been out of the first round in three years and you still think there elite.

Yea, what a garbage team to have a top 5 defense every year, top 5 offensive rebounding, and 66 wins

[dlunc3]

6-10

is a bears fan really talking about keeping players healthy? gotta love the delusional fans.. ill be rooting for the bears in the playoffs bol

[zsr]

Did an eagles fan really just try to use a quarterback getting injured as a comeback? Seriously?

Did Vick actually play ONE game from start to finish?

[dlunc3]

[zsr]

Good one?

[zsr]

Were really just arguing in circles. Both our quarterbacks got hurt. Both our teams missed the playoffs. But my team beat your team.

No reason to keep arguing with football season half a year away

[dlunc3]

you are right... we can agree on one thing.. just as eli manning has rings and dan marino has 0, kobe has rings and lebron has 0... yet everyone that has watched these individuals, knows who the better of the two are..regardless of the teams they have or have not had the privilege to play with

[zsr]

I can agree Eli is not better then Peyton or Marino or any hall of famer, I still don't think these two are comparable. Lebron is a point guard. Kobe is a pure scorer.

Lebron had a chance last year with a team better then any Kobe has ever played on, and he failed. He probably has 2-3 more chances with the big 3. Let's let him get 2 before we start talking about him with top 15 all time range.

Comparing it too football is a bad comparison because basketball is much more individual then football. A quarterback can only do so much and obviously can't play defense, you can do it all on the basketball court.

We'll have to agree to disagree and let it all play out.

[dlunc3]

I can agree Eli is not better then Peyton or Marino or any hall of famer, I still don't think these two are comparable. Lebron is a point guard. Kobe is a pure scorer.

Lebron had a chance last year with a team better then any Kobe has ever played on, and he failed. He probably has 2-3 more chances with the big 3. Let's let him get 2 before we start talking about him with top 15 all time range.

Comparing it too football is a bad comparison because basketball is much more individual then football. A quarterback can only do so much and obviously can't play defense, you can do it all on the basketball court.

We'll have to agree to disagree and let it all play out.

that is true... yet lebron can score as much as kobe while also being better at everything else.. i think that gives us our answer right there


You are looking at names just like you told me not to do.. as you said, it doesnt matter if there are big names right? In there first yr together, it was obvious they didnt mesh and play well together.. the shaq laker teams would have swept that heat team last yr

[zsr]

How am I looking at names? Did you watch them play in the playoffs? That team was legitimately unbeatable until Lebron choked.

There's a reason rings are used to compare superstars in basketball and not in football. Like i said it's much more of an individual sport, and thats why all of the all time greats have multiple rings unlike football.

Lebron can get there one day, but he's not there yet and putting him there after his dismal effort in the finals is just foolish. If they would have won he would have been third in finals MVP voting and you know that.

[dlunc3]

I just dont think its fair to judge a guy off of 6 games when he has played over 1000 amazing games over his career.. he dominated the celts and bulls and played well in the playoffs his whole career in cleveland.. he even played well in the finals vs SA when all the heat was on him alone. Judging him off of one game series is not fair to the guy. Player efficiency shows he elevates his game and his team in the post season when kobe goes the other way.. but unfortunately, it is a team game and much of how a player is viewed is based on team success... guess I will just never agree..

[zsr]

I just don't see how there's anyway to put him over Kobe at this point in his career. Kobe has done it in the playoffs. All the all time greats have multiple rings because of how they elevated themselves on the biggest stage. He didn't do that. Like i said though he'll have many more chances and who knows maybe he becomes clutch and wins 5 rings. I don't see it though.

At this point well just have to agree to disagree because obviously neither of us is going to change our opinions

[dlunc3]

I dont put him ahead of kobe at this point. Never have. Kobe has had a great career and is already top 10 all time. BUT, I have said, and will say again, Lebron in his prime is a better basketball player then Kobe in his prime... and I do not think this can be argued. With that said though, Kobe has had a better career (thusfar anyway) and will go down as one of the greats. More then almost anything else, a players legacy is based on longevity. If you are great for a 15 years, it means more then being the best for 5. Kobe will go down as top 10 all time, but in all honesty, may have never been the current best player in the NBA for more then maybe 1 season.

[jsmithj88]

the heats goal was to win the title, they didnt win but getting there was still a good step in the right direction
if they dont win it this year, then serious questions have to be addressed
putting elite players together doesn mean they will automatically win the title
it doesnt happen very often, u need time to build chemistry
the lakers failed when they had payton and malone
lakers also failed the first year with gasol
barkley, pippen, and hakeem didnt win at all
robinson and TD
shaq and kobe

the only team i can remember are the celtics big 3

[kobefanatic]

1) scoring (debate all you want, but lebron has the same amount of seasons averaging 28+ as kobe, yet he is only 27 and doenst have to take 25 shots per night)

2) passing

3) dunking

4) getting to the ft line

5) driving

6) running the court

7) blocking

8) steals

9) shooting % mid range

10) shooting % inside

11) offensive rebounding

12) defensive rebounding

13) fouls less

14) better condition (can handle more minutes per game)

15) stronger

16) faster

17) taller (yes all three of these factors go into how great a player is)

18) better EFF regular season

19) better EFF post season (lebrons gets better in the post season, kobes gets worse)

20) leadership... kobe lobbies to have his players traded (shaq and bynum).. lebron encourages and makes the players around him better, not just himself

should i keep going?

isn't running the court and faster just the same? shooting % mid range? taller so having physical advantage right now is already considered things better, scoring % inside of course he drives and dunks, no low post game, lebron gets better EFF because he is more of a stats padder, sure he has advantage with power but kobe is older right now, dunking has he even win any dunk contest? sure he has crazy hops if he have the ball to do it then join the dunk contest instead of pussying out every time