[demens]

not really guessing... lebron is averaging only 2.5 points less per game with more then 6 less shot attempts with a much better shooting %... if lebron chose to take 25+ shots per night, he would easily be up with kobe... and in all honestly, he will still most likely lead kobe in scoring this season when all said and done... thats on top of being a much better facilitator and defender

as said before... lebrons career is still just getting started.. if he can get his late game issues under control, he will easily bypass the player kobe ever was

Guessing is exactly what that is.

[William Walters]

wantitall.......did Kobe stiff you after you shined his shoes?

[dlunc3]

Guessing is exactly what that is.

assuming that lebron would scored 2.5 more ppg with 7 more shot attempts? pretty sure thats not really a guess with a guy that shoots close to 60%

[zsr]

That wantitall guy is the guy who said the lakers will be in the lottery. He's definitely a laker hater

[InTheDrink]

I'm not touching the Jordan argument but just as an FYI, he shot 42% and 45% his 2 years with the Wiz. 46% his last year in Chicago. But yeah, like it said in the post you quoted, it takes a special kind of elite talent to be able to take that many shots and shoot them at a respectable %. Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant are 2 examples of such players.

My point was that there's a huge difference of 4% in a shooting pct. Jordan stands alone....kobe doesn't compare

And yeah you're making my point about his time with the wizards...even when you factor his two worst years in he's still rounding up to 50% for his entire career. So yeah I was aware of your FYI.

as for wantitallformoi.....does anyone ever read all that? jesus that guy has some serious free time on his hands

[bryant81]

My point was that there's a huge difference of 4% in a shooting pct. Jordan stands alone....kobe doesn't compare

And yeah you're making my point about his time with the wizards...even when you factor his two worst years in he's still rounding up to 50% for his entire career. So yeah I was aware of your FYI.

as for wantitallformoi.....does anyone ever read all that? jesus that guy has some serious free time on his hands

This.

[InTheDrink]

assuming that lebron would scored 2.5 more ppg with 7 more shot attempts? pretty sure thats not really a guess with a guy that shoots close to 60%

he's at 57% after 11 games....and he's a 48% shooter over his career

want to make a point bet that he ends up closer to 48% by season's end than 57%?

[zsr]

That's how everyone of his posts are too. I don't think I've ever read past the first sentence.

[InTheDrink]

once i see a wall of text my eyes glaze over and skip to something else

can't say i've ever even read one word of his posts....what a waste of time

[dlunc3]

he's at 57% after 11 games....and he's a 48% shooter over his career

want to make a point bet that he ends up closer to 48% by season's end than 57%?

yes, but we are comparing to what kobe is doing right now.. scoring 32 ppg... that will also be down to 29 by seasons end, just like lebrons shooting numbers will be down

the argument is that lebron would easily be averaging 32+ if he took 25 shots per game... he is close to 30 averaging like 18 shots

[InTheDrink]

if kobe ends the season over 27ppg i'll be stunned

these threads proclaiming a guy to be the best or the worst after 10 games always kill me

[zsr]

Kobe at this moment is the best player in the game. Projecting what he'll do in 30 games is impossible. That's all this thread is.

He's not top 5 all time. He's not in jordans class. He's just the best right now.

[zsr]

Durant/Lebron/rose all right behind him

[dlunc3]

Kobe at this moment is the best player in the game. Projecting what he'll do in 30 games is impossible. That's all this thread is.

He's not top 5 all time. He's not in jordans class. He's just the best right now.

There is much more then scoring involved that makes someone the best player. I think dwight needs to be in this convo too... scoring, grabbing every rebound, and playing great d

durrant probably should not be on that list right now..

in no order, lebron kobe dwight and rose are top 4

[zsr]

Your right Howard should definitely be in there. He's playing with the worst supporting cast as well.

[dlunc3]

the guy is a monster... if im la, i make every conceivable effort to bring him in and get kobe another ring or two

[demens]

yes, but we are comparing to what kobe is doing right now.. scoring 32 ppg... that will also be down to 29 by seasons end, just like lebrons shooting numbers will be down

the argument is that lebron would easily be averaging 32+ if he took 25 shots per game... he is close to 30 averaging like 18 shots

He would not. The key word is easily and its not easy to do what you are talking about. Can Lebron score 32+ if he took 25 shots? Sure, but how will that effect the rest of his game? What about his team? Will he still put up 7/7 boards/ast? I doubt it. Will he shoot it at 57%? Definitely not. Will his team be successful? Personally i think if Lebron is taking 25 shots a game, Heat dont even have home court in the 1st round. Lebron isn't a great scorer. His best scoring is when he runs fast and makes dunks and lay-ups. Thats not gonna happen for 25 shots per game even if the Heat become the fast fastbreaking team in the league.

And this is me guessing just like you were.

Either way, i dont expect Kobe to continue this kind of pace for the rest of the year. But what he has done early on is pretty amazing and i dont see anything wrong with giving the guy some props for it. Does a 10 (or 4) games make him the best in the league, maybe not. But he is showing he can still do it and these 4 games have been impressive.

[dlunc3]

lebron is at 29.5 already... 2.5 points per game more really wouldnt take much (he could try making some fts)... but yes 6 shots more would affect that team negatively though, I agree

kobe is still a great score no doubt about it

[demens]

lebron is at 29.5 already... 2.5 points per game more really wouldnt take much (he could try making some fts)... but yes 6 shots more would affect that team negatively though, I agree

kobe is still a great score no doubt about it

Shooting at 57%. Thats pretty crazy and also quite impressive (and yes, I am a Lebron hater). I remember him and Wade saying they are deliberately trying to stay away from shooting 3s which i think is contributing to the high %, and its also a good thing for both of them cause they both kind of suck from 3. But will they stay disciplined?

Random memory: I remember there was 1 season where Josh Smith swore off 3s. It happened to be a season he shot a career high 50% from the field. Too bad he went right back to launching long range bombs ala Antoine Walker next year. Its funny how even Hawks fans boo him whenever he takes a jumper over 16 feet. Yeah, Hawks have some of the most pathetic fans in the league but Josh Smith is a horrible jump shooter and should be booed for taking any shot other then a dunk or lay-up. Anyway. Random thought over.

[will2survive]

Kobe is the best currently but if LBJ can prove to be clutch this season, he's the best.

[upscope]

If you wanna call him the best scorer, fine go ahead... but that is all he offers. He is no longer the defensive player he once was...doesnt help on the boards and doesnt distribute the ball and get his teammates involved

Best player in the league does more then shoot 30 shots a game and score points... he is great at that though, and is scoring at a very high level right now

"He doesn't help on the boards" ........Interesting, because he's currently averaging 5.9 rebounds per game which ranks #2 in the NBA for all guards. A full rebound ahead of the #3 guard in the league. He averages 5.3 for his career so the 5.9 he's pulling down so far this season ranks as his 4th best rebounding season of his career. He's actually helping out more than ever on the boards

"Doesn't distribute the ball and get his teammates involved" ........Very bizarre, because he's currently averaging 5.4 assists per game which ranks #2 in the NBA for all shooting guards. A full 1.7 ahead of the #3 shooting guard in the league. He averages 4.7 for his career so the 5.4 he's dishing out so far this season ranks as the 4th best assist season of his career. He's actually distributing the ball more than ever.

"He is no longer the defensive player he once was".......Hmmm, guess that explains his 1st team
NBA All-Defensive Team trophy that he owns for not only last season but the prior 5 seasons to that as well.

2010-2011 NBA All-Defensive Team
2009-2010 NBA All-Defensive Team
2008-2009 NBA All-Defensive Team
2007-2008 NBA All-Defensive Team
2006-2007 NBA All-Defensive Team
2005-2006 NBA All-Defensive Team

So if I understand this correctly, you're claiming that the best player in the league needs to do more than shoot & score 30 per. What exactly is it that you want from the man?? He leads the entire league in scoring, he's 2nd in rebounding for all guards & he's second in assists from all shooting guards. And he's a reigning all NBA 1st team defender.

Conclusion: Haters are gonna hate. Doesn't matter if Kobe is actually having arguably the best season of his career or not, haters are gonna hate.........Stick to football pal

[PR9]

Anyone who thinks lebron has that FG% just because of fast breaks and layups do not follow the game of basketbal. First off, he developed a couple moves for his post-up game. And of course,

Lebron GREATLY improved his midrange game 2 summers ago. He used to be in the 30% some seasons , and in the 36% area in other seasons, and "below" 30% in others from 12-18 feet.

However, last year he was ASTONISHING from midrange at over 50%.. He was top-2 in the league shooting from that area and this year it's the same. Yes, better than Kobe from midrange.

Pay attention to the sport before making such claims, demens

He would not. The key word is easily and its not easy to do what you are talking about. Can Lebron score 32+ if he took 25 shots? Sure, but how will that effect the rest of his game? What about his team? Will he still put up 7/7 boards/ast? I doubt it. .

What a silly comment. Lebron is a double-double triple-double BEAST. He has had two 30-5-5+ seasons in his career. Kobe has done it twice as well, but he's played many more seasons.. Wade has also done it once.

And lebron is in the company of hall of famers in that regard, it's a very short list of having 2+ 30-5-5+ seasons.. and he's just 27 with many more years left.

30-5-5 regular seasons
6 - Oscar, Jordan
2 - Lebron, West, Wilt, Kobe
1 - Wade, Kareem, Maravich, McGrady

[InTheDrink]

to be clear, kobe is not close to the defensive player he used to be and making the all defensive team is as worthless as getting a gold glove in baseball

[PR9]

Lebron currently rules the roost from 10-16 feet over the past 2 seasons, or 12-18, however you want to look at it.. But let's expand it to 16-23 feet:

From 16-23 Feet per game:

08-09 LeBron: 2.2/5.5 (40%)
09-10 LeBron: 2.2/5.4 (40%)
10-11 LeBron: 2.4/5.4 (45%)

08-09 Kobe: 2.9/7.0 (42%)
09-10 Kobe: 2.5/6.0 (41%)
10-11 Kobe: 2.2/5.9 (38%)

08-09 Durant: 2.7/6.5 (41%)
09-10 Durant: 2.2/5.8 (37%)
10-11 Durant: 2.7/6.7 (40%)

08-09 Wade: 3.3/7.8 (42%)
09-10 Wade: 1.9/5.3 (36%)
10-11 Wade: 1.4/3.7 (37%)

08-09 Carmelo: 2.3/5.9 (39%)
09-10 Carmelo: 2.9/7.1 (40%)
10-11 Carmelo: 2.7/6.4 (42%)

Yeah, he's so poor, he only scores from fast breaks and layups :rollseyes:

[upscope]

It wasnt a big deal because they were squeaking out wins at home against clearly inferior opponents. Now they are going to start facing some legit teams it will all come to a head to be sure.

Could you please make UP your mind?? Just last week you looked ahead @ the Lakers schedule & "assigned" losses to them when they played Memphis, Golden State & Houston & claimed all 3 would finish ahead of them in the west. Now after the Lakers beat all 3 of them you are claiming they are "squeaking out wins at home against clearly inferior opponents."

You're confusing me. Are these teams better than the Lakers & gonna finish ahead of them?? Or are they inferior to the Lakers once the Lakers beat them?? Please explain.....

[upscope]

Lebron currently rules the roost from 10-16 feet over the past 2 seasons, or 12-18, however you want to look at it.. But let's expand it to 16-23 feet:

From 16-23 Feet per game:

08-09 LeBron: 2.2/5.5 (40%)
09-10 LeBron: 2.2/5.4 (40%)
10-11 LeBron: 2.4/5.4 (45%)

08-09 Kobe: 2.9/7.0 (42%)
09-10 Kobe: 2.5/6.0 (41%)
10-11 Kobe: 2.2/5.9 (38%)

08-09 Durant: 2.7/6.5 (41%)
09-10 Durant: 2.2/5.8 (37%)
10-11 Durant: 2.7/6.7 (40%)

08-09 Wade: 3.3/7.8 (42%)
09-10 Wade: 1.9/5.3 (36%)
10-11 Wade: 1.4/3.7 (37%)

08-09 Carmelo: 2.3/5.9 (39%)
09-10 Carmelo: 2.9/7.1 (40%)
10-11 Carmelo: 2.7/6.4 (42%)

Yeah, he's so poor, he only scores from fast breaks and layups :rollseyes:

I think you're forgetting to include the 1st 6 years of his career when he shot as low as 29% from mid range. Are you suggesting that LeBron shooting a very respectable 48% from the field for his career has little to do with him routinely being in the top 3 in the league in lay-UP's & dunks??

[PR9]

And just to make Demens look even more silly, and showing how valuable following the sport actually is:

Players this year with 30-5-5 games:

LeBron James
12/25: 37 points (11-19; 15-19 FT), 10 rebounds, 6 assists in a 105-94 win over the Mavericks
12/28: 35 points (13-23; 9-9 FT), 7 assists, 6 rebounds in a 96-95 win over the Bobcats
12/30: 34 points (16-26), 10 assists, 8 rebounds, 4 steals in a 103-101 win over the Timberwolves.
1/4: 33 points (12-21; 9-11 FT), 13 assists, 8 rebounds in a 118-83 win over the Pacers
1/7: 32 points (11-17; 10-12 FT), 9 assists, 7 rebounds in a 101-90 win over the Nets.
1/13: 35 points (13-20; 3-5 3 pt), 6 assists, 5 rebounds in a 104-117 loss to the Nuggets.

Kevin Durant
12/25: 30 points (11-19; 2-4 3 pt), 6 assists, 5 rebounds in a 97-89 win over the Magic.
12/29: 30 points (10-16; 3-5 3 PT), 11 rebounds, 6 assists in a 104-102 win over the Mavericks.

Rajon Rondo
12/25: 31 points (11-19; 9-12 FT), 13 assists, 5 rebounds, 5 steals in a 104-106 loss to the Knicks

Kobe Bryant
1/3: 37 points (14-29; 7-9 FT), 8 rebounds, 6 assists in a 108-99 win over the Rockets.
1/10: 48 points (18-31; 12-13 FT), 5 rebounds, 5 assists in a 99-83 win over the Suns

Chris Bosh
1/5: 33 points (14-27), 14 rebounds, 5 assists in a 116-109 win over the Hawks.

Carmelo Anthony
1/4: 32 point (12-24; 2-6 3 pt), 6 rebounds, 5 assists in a 110-118 loss to the Bobcats.

Brandon Jennings
1/5: 31 points (12-23; 6-10 3 pt), 7 assists, 5 steals in a 100-103 loss to the Kings.

Kyle Lowry
1/14: 33 points (13-26; 3-5 3 pt), 9 assists, 8 rebounds in a 107-105 win over the Blazers.

Count:
LeBron James (6)
Kevin Durant (2)
Kobe Bryant (2)
Rajon Rondo (1)
Chris Bosh (1)
Carmelo Anthony (1)
Brandon Jennings (1)
Kyle Lowry (1)

Try to follow the sport kiddo

[dlunc3]

"He doesn't help on the boards" ........Interesting, because he's currently averaging 5.9 rebounds per game which ranks #2 in the NBA for all guards. A full rebound ahead of the #3 guard in the league. He averages 5.3 for his career so the 5.9 he's pulling down so far this season ranks as his 4th best rebounding season of his career. He's actually helping out more than ever on the boards

"Doesn't distribute the ball and get his teammates involved" ........Very bizarre, because he's currently averaging 5.4 assists per game which ranks #2 in the NBA for all shooting guards. A full 1.7 ahead of the #3 shooting guard in the league. He averages 4.7 for his career so the 5.4 he's dishing out so far this season ranks as the 4th best assist season of his career. He's actually distributing the ball more than ever.

"He is no longer the defensive player he once was".......Hmmm, guess that explains his 1st team
NBA All-Defensive Team trophy that he owns for not only last season but the prior 5 seasons to that as well.

2010-2011 NBA All-Defensive Team
2009-2010 NBA All-Defensive Team
2008-2009 NBA All-Defensive Team
2007-2008 NBA All-Defensive Team
2006-2007 NBA All-Defensive Team
2005-2006 NBA All-Defensive Team

So if I understand this correctly, you're claiming that the best player in the league needs to do more than shoot & score 30 per. What exactly is it that you want from the man?? He leads the entire league in scoring, he's 2nd in rebounding for all guards & he's second in assists from all shooting guards. And he's a reigning all NBA 1st team defender.

Conclusion: Haters are gonna hate. Doesn't matter if Kobe is actually having arguably the best season of his career or not, haters are gonna hate.........Stick to football pal

Edit

[dlunc3]

"He doesn't help on the boards" ........Interesting, because he's currently averaging 5.9 rebounds per game which ranks #2 in the NBA for all guards. A full rebound ahead of the #3 guard in the league. He averages 5.3 for his career so the 5.9 he's pulling down so far this season ranks as his 4th best rebounding season of his career. He's actually helping out more than ever on the boards

"Doesn't distribute the ball and get his teammates involved" ........Very bizarre, because he's currently averaging 5.4 assists per game which ranks #2 in the NBA for all shooting guards. A full 1.7 ahead of the #3 shooting guard in the league. He averages 4.7 for his career so the 5.4 he's dishing out so far this season ranks as the 4th best assist season of his career. He's actually distributing the ball more than ever.

"He is no longer the defensive player he once was".......Hmmm, guess that explains his 1st team
NBA All-Defensive Team trophy that he owns for not only last season but the prior 5 seasons to that as well.

2010-2011 NBA All-Defensive Team
2009-2010 NBA All-Defensive Team
2008-2009 NBA All-Defensive Team
2007-2008 NBA All-Defensive Team
2006-2007 NBA All-Defensive Team
2005-2006 NBA All-Defensive Team

So if I understand this correctly, you're claiming that the best player in the league needs to do more than shoot & score 30 per. What exactly is it that you want from the man?? He leads the entire league in scoring, he's 2nd in rebounding for all guards & he's second in assists from all shooting guards. And he's a reigning all NBA 1st team defender.

Conclusion: Haters are gonna hate. Doesn't matter if Kobe is actually having arguably the best season of his career or not, haters are gonna hate.........Stick to football pal

Are you serious right now? Giving me stats from a 15 game span? His assists, rebounds, points have all gone down since his 2007/2008 season... And anyone that watches Bball knows he is nowhere near the defender he used to be. Talk to me after 50 games, not 15... You prob thought the redskins in the NFL were legit after 3-1 start too, just like you thought the braves were great after their strong start last summer

[PR9]

Enjoy the movie upscope:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1eiPY...feature=relmfu


Get your popcorn ready

[wantitall4moi]

Could you please make UP your mind?? Just last week you looked ahead @ the Lakers schedule & "assigned" losses to them when they played Memphis, Golden State & Houston & claimed all 3 would finish ahead of them in the west. Now after the Lakers beat all 3 of them you are claiming they are "squeaking out wins at home against clearly inferior opponents."

You're confusing me. Are these teams better than the Lakers & gonna finish ahead of them?? Or are they inferior to the Lakers once the Lakers beat them?? Please explain.....

Golden st didnt have their best player when they played the lakers on the road in LA, and that win was in question until late. Houston was at LA also. So if LA loses on their home courts then it is a wash, which will more than likely happen. Houston has also played 7 or 8 games on the road, once they get home they will go right by the lakers in the standings. Lakers are in 5th right now, with 2 teams a half game behind them in the standings. Portland is a game and a half behind them and we all know Portland is a better team than LA is. basically even at 9-5 Lakers are a game and a half from being in 8th or 9th in the west. Minn will improve, golden st will get healthy, and Portland will pass them. Utah will fade, Dallas will pass them.

Like I said there are 4 or 5 teams Lakers are clearly better than....New Orleans, Kings, Suns, Jazz. There are a couple teams with injuries that Lakers arent better than but are due to those injuries...Warriors, Grizzlies. Lakers played both those teams without arguably their best players IN LA. Randolph for Griz and Curry for Golden St. So lakers caught a break. But there is no guarantee lakers can beat any of those teams on the road. So it will end up being a wash.

So when it all shakes out youre going to have the Lakers hovering around the 6 to 9 seed in the west. OKC, SA, Clippers, will never be behind them. Dallas and Denver more than likely will stay ahead of them as well. So then you have Portland, Houston, Minn and Golden St. With a possible Memphis thrown in if Memphis gets healthy fighting it out for the last 3 play off spots. Some people will put Portland in automatically, so there you still have 4 or 5 teams fighting it out for 2 play off spots. That is also totally discounting the Jazz, which right now are not horrible. So if they stay a contender that is another team Lakers have to keep ahead of.

Lakers are no shoe ins for the play offs. If you think they are youre deluded. If they lose one of their 3 major players like Bynum, Kobe, or Gasol then there is no way they make it.

[zsr]

PR9 tries to play basketball scout in every thread. Give it a fukin rest. Your a poster on an anonymous gambling forum, you know nothing about the game of basketball, kiddo. Play scout somewhere else.

You have 700 posts in 2 weeks, how is that even possible? I'd be willing to wager all of them are you going into threads and saying something about how you know more about basketball then everyone else. Strange, because if you did, you wouldn't be posting about it on an Internet forum.

[M.W.]

Dirk is the best player in the Western Conference, and it's not even close.

[upscope]

Are you serious right now? Giving me stats from a 15 game span? His assists, rebounds, points have all gone down since his 2007/2008 season... And anyone that watches Bball knows he is nowhere near the defender he used to be. Talk to me after 50 games, not 15... You prob thought the redskins in the NFL were legit after 3-1 start too, just like you thought the braves were great after their strong start last summer

It's beyond imagination how clueless you can be sometimes. Please show me anywhere I said a peep about the Redskins being legit & also please show me where the word "Braves" ever once came out of my mouth
Stop being ignorant & putting words in peoples mouths that somehow make your argument have credit.
The only thing I ever told you was the Eagles were overrated & wouldn't make the playoffs. And laughed @ you after your retarded statements about the Eagles having a better chance of making the playoffs than the Giants eventhough the Giants had them by 3 games w/ 6 to play The Giants are in the NFC Championship game & the Eagles are home watching saddled w/ the worst contract it football!!

As far as this thread goes you're the one saying that there's more to being considered the best player in the game than scoring 30 a game & said Kobe doesn't distribute nor rebound. Check the stats before making ignorant statements. Kobe is currently the #2 rebounding guard in the league & the #2 assist man from the shooting guard position & thru 15 games & is having arguably his best season yet you're attempting to discredit facts w/ hatred.

You can have the guy that chokes yr after yr & quits/disappears repeatedly when it matters most. I'll take the guy that has been to the Finals 7x & can cover an entire hand w/ rings until LeBron learns to come through when it matters most he's not even in the debate.

Seriously, please explain to me how Kobe "doesn't help on the boards" & "doesn't distribute the ball" eventhough the evidence says he's doing so more than ever??

[darkhat]

Regardless of percentages, Lebron has no heart and will never carry his team in the 4th the way kobe does. He won't succeed in big games, and big moments.