[dynamite140]

Funny how when Clippers got CP3 people were saying the Clippers were going to be one of the contenders to win the nba title. I know most people overreact but to anyone even thinking about this has no clue about the NBA. Lakers are still the best team in LA. The Clippers are extremely lucky that this season is a short condensed season and this is the only reason they will probably make the playoffs. The sole reason for this is the Clippers are young and playing many B2B games don't affect them as much as a Celtic or Spurs team who have tired legs. Had this been a full 82 game season, Clippers would be lucky to make the 8th seed.


Last year the Clippers did not make the playoffs though they had a very good year for their standards. Yes Blake Griffin is a rising star and so was Eric Gordon. Gordon got traded and then they get CP3 and people think he would be the x factor to take the Clippers to win the West. Don't get me wrong, CP3 is a good point guard. However, he isn't a tier 1 point guard. Reason for this is he is the 2nd shortest starting PG in the NBA behind Jameer Nelson. Yes he can pass but he is a liability on defense. He is listed at 6'0 but he is probably 5'11.5. So basically like an Allen Iverson in height. Allen Iverson was a score first player and could drive in and CP3 is not. He just like your John Stockton/Steve Nash where he pass first. Problem is Stockton and Nash were very good at drawing charges. CP3 likewise is not. Yes he is fast but what does fast mean when every PG u guard against is bigger than you.


Rose, Williams, Westbrook, Rondo are all better than CP3. Most importantly, they are bigger. CP3 is not threat to any other team. The only reason why he average so many assists is b/c his Hornets team were full of average players and that was going to pat his stats. If he wasn't going to get the assists, then no one else would. He has no inside game at all... then again, he shouldn't because he's a PG. However, guys like Rose, Williams can take it to the rim whereas all Paul does is crossover and then take a jumper. Whats that going to do when your jumpers miss?


This guy has got to be one of the most overhyped players i ever seen in a trade. Thinking someone like Paul could make a team a contender for the NBA title is beyond laughable. Yes him and Blake Griffin are a good duo but that is an average duo. Blake is good at dunks. He has no defense whatsoever, lacks fundamentals but he is still learning. He's very good offensive player of course. But him and CP3 and people thinking they would make them favorites to win the West is just beyond crazy. They are pretty much like the Utah Jazz with Deron Williams and Carlos Boozer a few years back except they are much worser in terms of defense... hence Blake Griffin no D and CP3's size which would get him pushed around easily by taller guards and practically every guard besides Nelson is taller than him. And they practically have no supporting cast besides Billups who is an old PG. And they have no playoff experience at all unlike Williams and Boozer. And no, I wouldn't consider CP3 back a few years ago having the 1 seed with the Hornets proved anything. Many teams play down to their competition and many did this to the Hornets. And then the spurs exposed hornets in the playoffs. Then the following year the Nuggets destroyed them even though Hornets were a low seed.

Clippers are just very lucky this season is 66 games and condensed. If it was 82 games, they would be lucky to even be the 8th seed in the West. They will be no better than a 6 seed in the playoffs this year and if they do, they will get knocked out of the first round easily by whichever team they play.

Anyone who follows the nba closely will understand what I'm saying. And those who don't get it, yes you are watching too much ESPN.

[HoulihansTX]

I stopped when you said, "CP3 is not a top tier PG".

[dynamite140]

Rose, Rondo, Williams and Westbrook are all better than CP3.


If you mean being the 5th best starting PG in the league is a top tier PG, then you can say yes.

[HoulihansTX]

Its not worth arguing

[dynamite140]

Oh yea, i called Miami vs Dallas to play in the NBA finals last year before the playoffs began.

But of course i don't bump threads like that b/c I don't want to make a certain person look bad

[dynamite140]

Watching nba highlights on espn or tnt doesn't really count as following the league.

[YOUSENKO]

Lakers fan? Lakers probably has the same slim chance as clippers to win the whole thing this season. Lakers would love to have CP3.

[SiMON2g]

Westbrook a better PG then Paul?

Where do I even begin with this.. Westbrook isn't even a proper point, he's a downright #2. 18 shots a game, sorry but a point guard doesn't average that many shots a game, especially when you have a prolific scorer to your right in Durant.

Please, Please do not compare Westbrook with CP3, they are in two totally different classes.

Rose, Rondo, Williams are great points.. but to say that Paul is not a top tier point guard is absolutely delusional. This guy can run an offense like no other, the amount of composure and instruction he brings to a team is ridiculous.

[dynamite140]

Westbrook is very streaky I agree. Yes he can miss 10 in a row and usually make wrong decisions at the end of the game. But if a team had to take Westbrook or CP3, you take Westbrooke. He is one of the fastest PG in the league.

Westbrook would look make CP3 look very bad with the ball and CP3 guarding. CP3 problem is he is too short to be considered a top PG in the league. Height is everything in the nba and cp3 doesn't have that.

He will probably turn into a Brandon Knight into a few years though Knight is a solid backup PG in the league who understands basketball. I use Knight as an example because he is one of the shortest pg in the league at 5'10. Once CP3 loses his speed, he will become a scrub and benchwarmer and out of the league.

Its the fact that people thought someone like him would make a team NBA CHAMPION CONTENDERS is beyond laughable.

[Speedy88]

Are you kidding me? The only guy you can argue as being a better PG than CP3 is Derrick Rose, and I think Rose rightfully deserves to be called the best PG in the NBA after what he did last year.

Rondo has no outside shot, the guy just can't score on a consistent basis from the outside. Westbrook thinks he's Kobe at times and decides to shoot more than Durant. Not to mention the guy turns the ball over way too much for a PG. Derron Williams is a really good PG, but I think the Nets record reflects the type of player he is. If he were so good, the Nets would be a much better team.


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[PR9]

Rose, Rondo, Williams and Westbrook are all better than CP3.

Um, no they're not. No sense arguing.

But,

Thanks for showing your rudimentary level of knowledge on the game of basketball.

[dynamite140]

Rondo has no outside shot, yes i agree. However, what he did with the Celtics championship run and in the playoffs, you could see how valuable he was. You don't need a outside shot when you can just dribble down the paint and then lay it up. Rondo can do this because he is 6'2 which is average for a starting PG in the nba. CP3 is the 2nd shortest starting PG in the league and would get abused if he dared try to take it to the rim everytime. Thats why he has to shoot jumpers. He isn't any big threat at all.

Like they say, why do some teams who keep shooting 3 pointers can't win a title? Because when you don't hit your 3's, what are you going to do? CP3 wouldn't be able to do nothing since he's way too undersized in the league. Williams, Rose, Rondo and Westbrook all can take it to the rack. Yes Paul shoots better than all of them from the outside but he has no moves besides a crossover dribble and a jumpshot. And when you start missing them, he won't be any threat at all.

[SiMON2g]

Westbrook is very streaky I agree. Yes he can miss 10 in a row and usually make wrong decisions at the end of the game. But if a team had to take Westbrook or CP3, you take Westbrooke. He is one of the fastest PG in the league.

Westbrook would look make CP3 look very bad with the ball and CP3 guarding. CP3 problem is he is too short to be considered a top PG in the league. Height is everything in the nba and cp3 doesn't have that.

He will probably turn into a Brandon Knight into a few years though Knight is a solid backup PG in the league who understands basketball. I use Knight as an example because he is one of the shortest pg in the league at 5'10. Once CP3 loses his speed, he will become a scrub and benchwarmer and out of the league.

Its the fact that people thought someone like him would make a team NBA CHAMPION CONTENDERS is beyond laughable.

I don't understand why you are making arguments for Westbrook's shooting, it's something a Point Guard isn't usually renowned for.. In contrast, Paul is the better distributor, he doesn't take too many shots and take points away from his team mates, Westbrook puts up bricks when he settles for jumpshots, taking way to many shots @ 18PG

I seriously, cannot understand where you are coming from, you must really have no idea about this game.

[dynamite140]

So where do you see the Clippers finishing the season as in the playoffs? What seed? I ask this b/c its pretty obvious that you think they will be a threat in the playoffs.

[SiMON2g]

So where do you see the Clippers finishing the season as in the playoffs? What seed? I ask this b/c its pretty obvious that you think they will be a threat in the playoffs.

I'm not debating the position of the Clippers, merely the fact you think Paul is a mediocre #1.

But, I think the Clippers can finish with a 4-6 seed.

[zsr]

Paul is the second best point guard in the league behind rose, and the clippers are serious threats to win the west. By default if nothing else. Who's going to beat them in a series? OKC would be the only team I would take over them.

There length and athletiscm alone make them threats, add in paul and caron, and Chauncey will occasionally show up. Still need to trade mo or Bledsoe for a big though.

[dynamite140]

Paul is a mediocre #1.

Steve Nash back a few years ago and Tony Parker a few years back were still better than what CP3 has done.

If CP3 was taller, then yes he would be considered a tier 1 point guard. You need to understand that in the nba, if you are undersized, you don't last long in the league.

John Stockton could play D and draw charges. CP3 is an extreme liability on defense. At least Westbrooke can guard and steal the ball. CP3 cannot because he keeps getting abused by bigger guards.

[YOUSENKO]

Rose is only slightly better than CP3 prob due to his height. Both can shoot 3, assist, low turnovers and drive up the rim. However the bulls team play crazy defense, any point they score is very damaging, this will make Rose stand out.

[zsr]

The only person who has abused Paul this year is rose..

Paul is an overrated defender I agree but he does get his steals. Paul is a top 3 PG. Who do you have ahead of him other then rose?

[dynamite140]

If you think they are the 2nd best team in the West, you do not watch nba closely.


Thunder, Blazers, Nuggets, Mavericks, Spurs and the Lakers would beat the Clippers in a 7 game playoff series. Memphis with a healthy Zach Randolph and Rudy Gay would be a favorite to beat the Clippers if they play a 7 game series.


Caron Butler? He had a few good years with the Wizards. But besides that, he serves the same role as a guy like Shawn Marion.

[zsr]

If you think they are the 2nd best team in the West, you do not watch nba closely.


Thunder, Blazers, Nuggets, Mavericks, Spurs and the Lakers would beat the Clippers in a 7 game playoff series. Memphis with a healthy Zach Randolph and Rudy Gay would be a favorite to beat the Clippers if they play a 7 game series.


Caron Butler? He had a few good years with the Wizards. But besides that, he serves the same role as a guy like Shawn Marion.

They will be 2nd best. They did a total roster overhaul and are 12 games into the season.

None of those teams besides OKC would even take 2 against them.

[dynamite140]

So they will be the 2nd seed in the West come playoff time?

[zsr]

So they will be the 2nd seed in the West come playoff time?

They will be the second best team. With the schedule the way it is seeding might be a little crazy. Your significantly overrating the other teams in the west. Portland will not win a series against anybody. Denver or San Antonio won't either.

[dynamite140]

By you saying cp3 is an overrated defender, i assume you mean how he is always top 5 in the league in steals. Yes he is top 5 in the league in steals but that does not matter much when you get blown by, by bigger PGs every single night.

Its like saying a guy got 5 steals in a game but the players he were guarding the game went a combined 12-17 with 9 assists. Unless CP3 gets help in the paint by his bigs, he is a liability on defense. No top tier point guard who has an extreme disadvantage on defense should be top 1 tier.

Now Steve Nash has horrible defense. But he is very good at drawing charges and always led the league in this makes it different for him.

[zsr]

By you saying cp3 is an overrated defender, i assume you mean how he is always top 5 in the league in steals. Yes he is top 5 in the league in steals but that does not matter much when you get blown by, by bigger PGs every single night.

Its like saying a guy got 5 steals in a game but the players he were guarding the game went a combined 12-17 with 9 assists. Unless CP3 gets help in the paint by his bigs, he is a liability on defense. No top tier point guard who has an extreme disadvantage on defense should be top 1 tier.

Now Steve Nash has horrible defense. But he is very good at drawing charges and always led the league in this makes it different for him.

Look at the match ups he'll get in the playoffs though.

Fisher?
Conley?
Parker?
Felton?
Lawson?

Westbrook is the only one that will give him trouble like rose does to him

[dynamite140]

Never said portland, denver or san antonio would win a series against anybody. I said if they play the Clippers in the 1st round, they would take care of the clippers.

For a team that hasn't been in the playoffs in so many years, you really think they will somehow be the 2nd best team in the West? Just by adding CP3?

This is like a poor man Utah Jazz team with Deron Williams and Boozer who are a better duo than a Griffin and CP3 that couldn't beat the lakers in the playoffs..

[hawley]

Between making 1000's of posts about stupid shit it seems like Dynamite actually knows a thing or two about the NBA

[zsr]

Only time will tell. They do have a lack of depth at 4 and 5 and Chauncey and Caron need to stay healthy so we'll just have to wait and see. If no one gets injured they'll be as good as anyone in the west

[YOUSENKO]

I only know Clippers will destroy Lakers in the playoffs for the first time. Hahaha. Their PG sucks. There is good chance they will meet in round 1. Kobe can't be doing it all, PG *** shooter *** paint. They prob lose to OKC in the finals though.

[dynamite140]

Clippers will get exposed later on in the season. At best they will get is a 6 seed. They lack depth defensively at every position.

The thing is people see them beating the Lakers and the Heat early on and think they are contenders. The Lakers and heat do not put max effort in games especially if they are playing b2b. Regular season doesn't really that much. Seedings matter more. Why do you think the Lakers not played hard last year at the end of the season when they could have gotten the 1 seed when they and the Spurs were playing for the top seed?

Because an 8 seed like Memphis is extremely good and dangerous whereas a New Orleans team with CP3 has weaknesses everywhere. Paul and Hornets got 1st seed few years back and they got exposed by a Spurs team come playoff time. Regular season champions=Paper champions. Doesn't mean much. Clippers would beat Spurs most of the time in the regular season but if they meet in the 1st round, Spurs win the series 4-2 or 4-1 pretty convincingly.

You need to understand that a team like CP3 and Blake Griffin is not a Deron Williams and Carlos Boozer or a John Stockton and Karl Malone. People think this is one of the best duos in the league when it is no where close to that. Its actually an embarrassment for someone to even put these 2 in the same sentence as DWill and Boozer.


Griffin is a fast break player who dunks and score lot of fast break points. At half court sets, he would get exposed and a team like the Spurs would prevent them from playing their pace. Look what they did to Paul and the Hornets back in 2008.


And that Hornets in 2008 team is better than this Clippers team.



But of course, you wouldn't agree with me there.

[NB-Ace]

Funny how when Clippers got CP3 people were saying the Clippers were going to be one of the contenders to win the nba title. I know most people overreact but to anyone even thinking about this has no clue about the NBA. Lakers are still the best team in LA. The Clippers are extremely lucky that this season is a short condensed season and this is the only reason they will probably make the playoffs. The sole reason for this is the Clippers are young and playing many B2B games don't affect them as much as a Celtic or Spurs team who have tired legs. Had this been a full 82 game season, Clippers would be lucky to make the 8th seed.


Last year the Clippers did not make the playoffs though they had a very good year for their standards. Yes Blake Griffin is a rising star and so was Eric Gordon. Gordon got traded and then they get CP3 and people think he would be the x factor to take the Clippers to win the West. Don't get me wrong, CP3 is a good point guard. However, he isn't a tier 1 point guard. Reason for this is he is the 2nd shortest starting PG in the NBA behind Jameer Nelson. Yes he can pass but he is a liability on defense. He is listed at 6'0 but he is probably 5'11.5. So basically like an Allen Iverson in height. Allen Iverson was a score first player and could drive in and CP3 is not. He just like your John Stockton/Steve Nash where he pass first. Problem is Stockton and Nash were very good at drawing charges. CP3 likewise is not. Yes he is fast but what does fast mean when every PG u guard against is bigger than you.


Rose, Williams, Westbrook, Rondo are all better than CP3. Most importantly, they are bigger. CP3 is not threat to any other team. The only reason why he average so many assists is b/c his Hornets team were full of average players and that was going to pat his stats. If he wasn't going to get the assists, then no one else would. He has no inside game at all... then again, he shouldn't because he's a PG. However, guys like Rose, Williams can take it to the rim whereas all Paul does is crossover and then take a jumper. Whats that going to do when your jumpers miss?


This guy has got to be one of the most overhyped players i ever seen in a trade. Thinking someone like Paul could make a team a contender for the NBA title is beyond laughable. Yes him and Blake Griffin are a good duo but that is an average duo. Blake is good at dunks. He has no defense whatsoever, lacks fundamentals but he is still learning. He's very good offensive player of course. But him and CP3 and people thinking they would make them favorites to win the West is just beyond crazy. They are pretty much like the Utah Jazz with Deron Williams and Carlos Boozer a few years back except they are much worser in terms of defense... hence Blake Griffin no D and CP3's size which would get him pushed around easily by taller guards and practically every guard besides Nelson is taller than him. And they practically have no supporting cast besides Billups who is an old PG. And they have no playoff experience at all unlike Williams and Boozer. And no, I wouldn't consider CP3 back a few years ago having the 1 seed with the Hornets proved anything. Many teams play down to their competition and many did this to the Hornets. And then the spurs exposed hornets in the playoffs. Then the following year the Nuggets destroyed them even though Hornets were a low seed.

Clippers are just very lucky this season is 66 games and condensed. If it was 82 games, they would be lucky to even be the 8th seed in the West. They will be no better than a 6 seed in the playoffs this year and if they do, they will get knocked out of the first round easily by whichever team they play.

Anyone who follows the nba closely will understand what I'm saying. And those who don't get it, yes you are watching too much ESPN.

^

Have you ever played a competitive sport before? How old are you? I can't stop laughing..

Look man.. I've played bball since I was 6.. played 4 yrs of HS ball.. played pickup games against D1 players, beat a D1 player 1 on 1 once, and still play recreationally in leagues and tournaments today.. I also watch tons of NBA basketball, study advanced metrics (and on a related note, have developed a comprehensive point-based fantasy scoring system for the NBA using box score statistics that IMO comes as close as is possible with counting stats to measuring the true positive or negative impact a player had during any given amount of time on the floor) and am basically a devout fan and player of the game. Anyone who knows me knows I don't walk around tooting my own horn at all, but I say all that to say this -- you have no idea what you're talking about.

Not only is CP3 still probably the best PG on earth (only Derrick Rose has an argument against that), but between 2008 and 2010 he was the best ever (in pretty much a dead heat with Magic Johnson's peak). He carried those Hornet teams on his back when they had no business even being near the playoffs. CP3 singlehandedly beat the Los Angeles Lakers TWICE in the playoffs last year.

Watch that series and tell me he wasn't the best PG on earth.


Now.. he's still phenomenal, but I think he's fallen off from that level ever so slightly cuz of injury.. and I'm not sure we'll ever see it again.. but still, 85-90% of his 2008-2010 is still at least tied for best PG in the league..

[manutd19]

So you think westbrook with durant is better than a potential paul and durant? I just de laff! There is a reason why celtic wants to trade Rondo for Paul, lakers wanted to give up Gasol, Odom, for Paul.

[dynamite140]

^

Have you ever played a competitive sport before? How old are you? I can't stop laughing..

Look man.. I've played bball since I was 6.. played 4 yrs of HS ball.. played pickup games against D1 players, beat a D1 player 1 on 1 once, and still play recreationally in leagues and tournaments today.. I also watch tons of NBA basketball, study advanced metrics (and on a related note, have developed a comprehensive point-based fantasy scoring system for the NBA using box score statistics that IMO comes as close as is possible with counting stats to measuring the true positive or negative impact a player had during any given amount of time on the floor) and am basically a devout fan and player of the game. Anyone who knows me knows I don't walk around tooting my own horn at all, but I say all that to say this -- you have no idea what you're talking about.

Not only is CP3 still probably the best PG on earth (only Derrick Rose has an argument against that), but between 2008 and 2010 he was the best ever (in pretty much a dead heat with Magic Johnson's peak). He carried those Hornet teams on his back when they had no business even being near the playoffs. CP3 singlehandedly beat the Los Angeles Lakers TWICE in the playoffs last year.

Watch that series and tell me he wasn't the best PG on earth.


Now.. he's still phenomenal, but I think he's fallen off from that level ever so slightly cuz of injury.. and I'm not sure we'll ever see it again.. but still, 85-90% of his 2008-2010 is still at least tied for best PG in the league..

Elaborate more on this and I will see if it has any merit.

[BigDofBA]

So when the Clippers beat the Lakers and Heat, it's because the Lakers and Heat weren't trying? LMAO. Kobe Bryant scored over 40 points and shot 50%. Do you really think he wasn't trying???? If you do you're an idiot.

I don't think the Clippers will win the West but they are a solid playoff team. If you don't think so you are just plain ignorant...which might be the case.

I'm a huge Thunder fan and I would take CP3 over Westbrook. There was talk of that around here during the off-season.

CP3 isn't elite??? LOL. Wow you're a fool.

[NB-Ace]

Elaborate more on this and I will see if it has any merit.

Sometimes I can't help myself, lol. I have a feeling I'm wasting my time but I'll give it a quick go anyways:

-- Chris Paul is extremely efficient.

He regularly approaches the holy trinity of shooting percentages (50% FG, 40% 3PT and 90% FT), handles the ball constantly but has the lowest turnover rate out of any PG I can think of in the last 30 years (around only 2.5 per game despite 35+ mins.. compare that with every other elite PG), and actually averages more STEALS than turnovers.

He also rebounds his position very well despite his size, and creates tons of HIGH QUALITY scoring opportunities for his teammates. I'd be willing to bet he raised the shooting percentages of his teammates by 3-5% just based off his presence on the floor and ability to manipulate the opposing defense these past few seasons. And now, you see the Clippers (who were mediocre last season) suddenly playing like contenders. I WONDER WHY.

To sum all this up, it boils down to one thing. Chris Paul takes advantage of and creates opportunities for winning basketball more often than any other PG, while making wrong/losing plays less often than any other PG. This guy takes only 12-13 shots a game and hits 6-7 of them. Yet, when the flow of the game calls for it, he can increase his shot volume and maintain his shooting percentages. He handles the ball CONSTANTLY, yet takes tremendous care of the ball. He is extremely intelligent and understands how to get the most out of his teammates and continuously puts them in positions to succeed.


Only Rose, Deron and Rondo are close to his level. Westbrook has TONS of talent but that kid doesn't get it. He wastes too many possessions with careless turnovers and is still a poor midrange shooter with bad shot selection to boot. He has moments of absolute greatness followed by games where you do this wondering why he won't stop chucking. On that note, Kyle Lowry and Ty Lawson are two other PGs I absolutely love and would put in my top 7.


That thorough enough?