[NYSportsGuy210]

Night in and night out this guy has the most accurate shot I have EVER SEEN in the last 20 years. He has led the Mavericks to 11 straight 50+ win seasons too. That high arcing J-shot is so pretty too. I have only been watching the NBA since 1992 but I have to tell you....I have seen Michael Jordan, Reggie Miller, Mitch Richmond, Tim Hardaway, Peja Stojakivic (Kings days)....this guy hands down can knock down a jumper ANYWHERE ON THE COURT more consistently better than any of these guys. In 20 years I can't name many better pure shooters than Dirk.

Anyone disagree or agree with me?

[ShogunRua]

He has a major advantage with his height...but, yeah...he might be the best shooter ever.

[tatddy]

Best shooting forward could be argued. Steve Nash shot in a 7 foot body.

[BrewVegas]

Uhhhhhh Ray Allen anyone?

[NYSportsGuy210]

I really never saw Larry Bird in his hey day but I gotta say there is no way Larry Bird was better than this guy.

[chantrain]

uhmm....are you guys talking out of your asses here or do you actually have some statistics to back up what you say?

[BrewVegas]

I really never saw Larry Bird in his hey day but I gotta say there is no way Larry Bird was better than this guy.

Just stop before you reveal your lack of NBA knowledge even further.

[ShogunRua]

Uhhhhhh Ray Allen anyone?

I think Allen is possibly the best 3 point shooter (Reggie Miller?), but his game mostly consists of coming off screens/getting shots off double teams. Dirk is not only making tough shots with defenders in his face, but is often double teamed. This has to be taken into consideration.

[NYSportsGuy210]

Uhhhhhh Ray Allen anyone?

Ray Allen and Reggie Miller are all time greats too....but I mean Dirk can do it ANYWHERE on the floor off the dribble and taking it to the hoop too. Even when surrounded by garbage or weak talent Dirk has always just been automatic from anywhere on the court and shooting from any body form.

Ray Allen's jump shot form is rigid and he can be rattled games here and there. I have never seen Dirk "rattled".

[BrewVegas]

Ray Allen and Reggie Miller are all time greats too....but I mean Dirk can do it ANYWHERE on the floor off the dribble and taking it to the hoop too. Even when surrounded by garbage or weak talent Dirk has always just been automatic from anywhere on the court and shooting from any body form.

Ray Allen's jump shot form is rigid and he can be rattled games here and there. I have never seen Dirk "rattled".

You are being biased after watching a few good games of Dirk's. Dirk is a phenomenal shooter but I've seen him have plenty of off nights, or get rattled as you say. Ray Allen has possibly the best stroke the league has ever seen.

[rsnnh12]

1. Ray Allen
2. Larry Legend
3. Dirk
4. Nash? Idk

3rd at best, no way is he better than Ray or Bird, especially considering his height advantage

[NYSportsGuy210]

uhmm....are you guys talking out of your asses here or do you actually have some statistics to back up what you say?

Dude I have watched Dirk play since the 2000 season. He gets better and more unstoppable every year he plays. He is no joke. I am not just heaping praise on him because I am some sort of die-hard Maverick fan or something cause I am not...I am speaking objectively.

I have never seen a more consistent harder to defend jump shooter or dribble penetration J-shooter (non PG) in the NBA in all my life.

[chantrain]

basically this is all meaningless until you present statistics to back up your arguments. Anyone can say anything and believe it to be true, doesn't mean it IS true.

I have no doubt Dirk is an amazing player and a great shooter, but to call him the best the NBA has ever seen? you need to bring some stats to this discussion. I'm not even sure he's the best in the NBA today, let alone of all time.

[NYSportsGuy210]

In 11 full seasons Dirk has averaged 23.4 points per game.....8.3 rebounds and a full block and a steal per game. And a lifetime 48% FG shooter. That's pretty nasty for 11 full seasons.

[ManBearPig]

I think he might have a really good case for his size, but players like Mark Price, Drazen Petrovik, Steven Nash, Chris Mullin, Ray Allen, Glen Rice, Reggie Miller, Larry Bird, Rick Barry, Jerry West, George Gervin and MJ would have a pretty good case overall and I'm sure there are some others being left out.

[NYSportsGuy210]

basically this is all meaningless until you present statistics to back up your arguments. Anyone can say anything and believe it to be true, doesn't mean it IS true.

I have no doubt Dirk is an amazing player and a great shooter, but to call him the best the NBA has ever seen? you need to bring some stats to this discussion. I'm not even sure he's the best in the NBA today, let alone of all time.

With the sheer volume of shots Dirk takes per game over the last eleven seasons as the Mavericks go-to-guy....there is no star in the NBA today that has his history of success shooting the jump shot for that long.

[chantrain]

ok, but Ray Allen has a better TS% and eFG% than Dirk this season.

so already I've found one player who's statistically a better shooter than Dirk. and I've only just started looking.

So.. I think Dirk is definitely up there but you're exaggerating to say he's the best ever.

[BrewVegas]

With the sheer volume of shots Dirk takes per game over the last eleven seasons as the Mavericks go-to-guy....there is no star in the NBA today that has his history of success shooting the jump shot for that long.

I say again, Ray Allen. Also, Reggie Miller, Bird, Nash, Kerr, Rice, Houston, etc etc etc.

For his size he is the best, but not overall.

[NYSportsGuy210]

I think he might have a really good case for his size, but players like Mark Price, Drazen Petrovik, Steven Nash, Chris Mullin, Ray Allen, Glen Rice, Reggie Miller, Larry Bird, Rick Barry, Jerry West, George Gervin and MJ would have a pretty good case overall and I'm sure there are some others being left out.

Yea but Reggie Miller and Ray Allen weren't averaging 7-8 rebounds per game while shooting 48% from the field for eleven straight seasons. In fact Reggie Miller usually averaged about 16-17 PPG for the majority of his career at most and never had a post up or dribble drive penetration game like Dirk has.

Playoff clutchness wise Dirk and Reggie are both out of this world and about equal.

[goobretty]

Dirk is one of the most underrated players in the league. The fact that he came in 6th in MVP voting is a joke to me. Early in the year, I had him as the MVP favorite before Derrick Rose blew up. Without Dirk for the 9 games he was hurt, the Mavs were a completely different team and looked awful. He is a great shooter, can rebound, and is extremely efficient from the field. Best shooter of all time? I'm not so sure, but he's definitely in the argument.

[BrewVegas]

Yea but Reggie Miller and Ray Allen weren't averaging 7-8 rebounds per game while shooting 48% from the field for eleven straight seasons. In fact Reggie Miller usually averaged about 16-17 PPG for the majority of his career at most and never had a post up or dribble drive penetration game like Dirk has.

Playoff clutchness wise Dirk and Reggie are both out of this world and about equal.

Wow. Dirk had one of the least clutch playoff moments of any big name player against the Heat.

Why the hell are you bringing up rebounds? Was this the "best guy who can shoot but also rebound" debate? Ray Allen is probably the best shooter in the history of them game.

[lakerboy]

best maybe but ugliest for sure

[rsnnh12]

Yea but Reggie Miller and Ray Allen weren't averaging 7-8 rebounds per game while shooting 48% from the field for eleven straight seasons. In fact Reggie Miller usually averaged about 16-17 PPG for the majority of his career at most and never had a post up or dribble drive penetration game like Dirk has.

Playoff clutchness wise Dirk and Reggie are both out of this world and about equal.

Why the hell are you bringing up rebounding and posting up in a shooting thread?

Ray is shooting 68+% for 3 in the last 24 seconds of games/OT in games the Cs are trailing by 3 or less.

THAT is clutch

[NYSportsGuy210]

The fact that I have a legitimate argument putting a PF in an argument as far as top jump shooter to ever play in the game with first ballot HOF'ers like Reggie Miller and Ray Allen, who were paid to do nothing but take jump shots, is amazing in itself and speak volumes about Nowitzki's prowess.

But I have the numbers to back it up too. In Reggie Miller's eleven most active full seasons compared to Dirk's....Nowitzki has the overall better FG% and averaged 4.5 more shots per game than Miller to do it. Plus as I said, he average 7.5 rebounds per game also to go along with his unreal jump shooting.

[ManBearPig]

Ya but your saying best "shooter" not multi-purpose player. Dirk has advantages just based on his size alone and of course he's going to out-rebound players like Reggie and Ray Allen. The position of being a great shooter doesn't really mean you are necessarily great at any other skill as I consider that a different argument.

Don't get me wrong Dirk is an amazing player and will go down as an all-timer, but I'm not convince he is a better pure shooter than say Bird or Miller to name a couple, those guys in their prime were insane. I saw both them play in their haydays and they were able to be dominate like Dirk is even if their stats aren't as gaudy.

I'm going to see if I can find a list of the top EFG% and see who's on that list as I think that will give a better indicator of pure shooters.

[BrewVegas]

Dirk isn't even top 100 in career eFG%.....

[BrewVegas]

I also can't believe Mike Miller hasn't been mentioned.

[NYSportsGuy210]

As far as shooting forwards go....where would you guys rank Nowitzki all-time? Better than Bird....equal...or worse?

Again I have only been watching NBA live myself for about 20 years....but I gotta say I have never seen a better jump shooting forward or more consistently accurate j-shooting forward than Dirk.

[rsnnh12]

As far as shooting forwards go....where would you guys rank Nowitzki all-time? Better than Bird....equal...or worse?

Again I have only been watching NBA live myself for about 20 years....but I gotta say I have never seen a better jump shooting forward or more consistently accurate j-shooting forward than Dirk.

Bird was a better shooter. He was unreal. Top 7 player ever, Dirk isn't at that level. Dirk is #2 though for forwards

[tullamore21]

Nowitzki is better than Allen for sure, at the point you mentioned. He hits it from everywhere.

[BrewVegas]

Nowitzki is better than Allen for sure, at the point you mentioned. He hits it from everywhere.

[ManBearPig]

Career TS% (Active and Retired)
http://www.basketball-reference.com/...ct_career.html

Career EFG% (Active and Retired)
http://www.basketball-reference.com/...ct_career.html

Mind you this will include those who camp around the basket and get a lot of 3' ftrs but you can easily distinguish who's who...there are some surprising on the list.

[NYSportsGuy210]

Listen this is why it's important to take into account the type of player and the types of shots he takes as well as the volume averaged of shot attempts per game. Cause guys like Shaq are going to have sky high career FG% just because they camp under the basket (as mentioned) and just get put backs or dunks all the time.

But as far as jump shooter and big men with offensive skills go....who can compete with Dirk all-time outside of Larry Bird?

[NYSportsGuy210]

Career TS% (Active and Retired)
http://www.basketball-reference.com/...ct_career.html

Career EFG% (Active and Retired)
http://www.basketball-reference.com/...ct_career.html

Mind you this will include those who camp around the basket and get a lot of 3' ftrs but you can easily distinguish who's who...there are some surprising on the list.

According to this list, Dirk is higher than Ray Allen in career true FG%.

[rsnnh12]

Listen this is why it's important to take into account the type of player and the types of shots he takes as well as the volume averaged of shot attempts per game. Cause guys like Shaq are going to have sky high career FG% just because they camp under the basket (as mentioned) and just get put backs or dunks all the time.

But as far as jump shooter and big men with offensive skills go....who can compete with Dirk all-time outside of Larry Bird?

If you're just talking "big men", its only Larry Legend. Jump shooters included? Ray is better than both. His form is flawless