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To give an analogy from baseball. A juiced Barry Bonds won 4 straight MVP awards from 2001-4. During that period he was by far the most feared and dominant baseball player since Mantle and Williams. At the same time A-rod was also juicing and producing solid numbers. Just like there is no comparison between Bonds and A-Rod , similarly there is no comparison between MJ and anyone who played after him. ( I have not seen Oscar Robertson and the other old timers play)
jordan w/o pippen (5 seasons): 0 titles, 0 mvps, 0 playoff series victories, 0 2nd round, 0 division titles, 0 winning seasons, 0 defensive teams, 1-9 playoff record
facts dont lie.
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Kobe embarassed himself in the Finals twice, when his team should have won.
facts done lie.
Originally Posted by bettingwizard
booom!
hardest part about this debate is that the league is 2 different eras. Jordan day hand checking was allowed, play was much rougher. Todays game fouls get called when a player is grazed by a finger, barely touched or even just looks like he could of been touched... much more sissy now
Lebron took a team of nobodys to the finals. That's all you need to know about the difference between early in Kobe's career, and Jordan's era, competition wise.. And Still, Kobe lost twice, once as a dominant fav over a pistons team that shut him down lol.
5 seasons- are you counting the time when he was 100 years old and playing for the Wizards. Come on now! Everyone knows that basketball is a team game. It has been shown to you throughout this thread by different posters that over the course of their entire careers, Kobe has had better supporting talent. This is a fact. I am done talking to idiots. Make sure you are not this stupid and thickheaded in real life matters and issues.
Kobe without Shaq or Gasol (3 seasons): 0 titles, 0 playoff series victories, missed playoffs, 0 MVPs
Facts don't lie
crusty downplaying gasol is comical.......3 seasons of nothing, then they trade for gasol mid-season, 3 straight finals happens.
Kobe can't win shit without a dominant big man. When Gasol did nothing against the Celtics in 2008, Kobe also did shit.
Kobe was threatening to be traded before they got Gasol. He was in the prime of his career, and the Lakers have become nothing. This year they will win because of the superiority of Gasol and Bynum over any other team's 2 big men and NOT KOBE. They would win with any other all star shooting guard/small forward - Pierce,durant, wade, Melo, for sure with Lebron, etc.
Oh and Pippen missed 38 games in 1998 and the Bulls still went 62-20. They were first in their division before Pippen came back from injury.
whoops.
I am a HUGE Kobe fan and as I have said before. LeBron James isn't even CLOSE to sniffing anything Kobe Bryant can do on the court.
That being said I agree that Jordan is way better than Bryant for a ton of reasons. But first of all, some of those accolades in that video that Jordan had and Kobe didn't wasn't Kobe's fault. For instance, of course Kobe wasn't gonna win Rookie of the Year in his first season, he had a Hall of Famer named Shaq (probably the third best big man of all-time) on his team that was the center piece of the Lakers.
Jordan came on with a bunch of scrubs on his team and automatically took over. He was far and away the most talented person on their team at the time. So that isn't Kobe's fault. Also Jordan was the primary go-to-guy on ALL HIS BULL's teams.....again he didn't have a Gasol or Shaq to share the ball with in the beginning of his career so of course he will average 30 ppg in more seasons than Kobe will.
But with both those things being said, Jordan is CLEARLY the GREATEST of ALL-TIME. MJ prevented my Knicks from winning at least 2 titles in the 1990's era and as far as overall fundamentals and leadership are concerned.....there has never been anyone greater. Jordan was clearly mentally and inspirationally ahead of his time and if you had to make a hybrid player that combined LeBron's all around game (passing, shooting and rebounding-wise) with that of the desire, flair and athleticism of Kobe Byrant....that super-hybrid was indeed Michael Jordan. I never realized how great of a rebounding guard Jordan was until I saw this video but yes that part of his game is clearly above Kobe's.
Athletically in their prime, had Kobe and Jordan went one on one on a playground somewhere in a game of 21....I think Kobe edges him out. But the sport of basketball is a team sport that I think Jordan for his entire career has done better at grasping the team concept than has Kobe Bryant. That all stems to Jordan's mentality.....you can just tell by the way he talks and thinks that he views the game much more cerebraly and mentally than Kobe can. His priorites are similar to that of LeBron in that he tries to get his teammates involved all the time, but his also has the skill set of a Kobe in that he is able to take over the game at any time should his team need him to.
Again....if you take LBJ and Kobe's best attribute and fuse them into one single dominant force....that person would be Michael Jordan.
Last edited by NYSportsGuy210; 04-01-11 at 06:33 PM.
pippen w/o jordan (1993-4): 55-27; led the bulls past 1st round something jordan could never do w/o pippen; finished 3rd in mvp
jordan w/o pippen: absolutely nothing
coincidence? i think not.
yeah and then the following year they were under.500 before jordan came back and led them to the playoffs
It helps when you have toni kukoc, and also bj armstrong and grant having career years. He had a supporting cast and lost in the 2nd round. Cool.
Don't bother with crustyme. He is incapable of facing facts that prove him wrong, no matter how obvious. He just changes to a new argument for a bit, then randomly comes back to his original argument, ignoring all of the previous facts thrown in his faceyeah and then the following year they were under.500 before jordan came back and led them to the playoffs
It helps when you have toni kukoc, and also bj armstrong and grant having career years. He had a supporting cast and lost in the 2nd round. Cool.
Edit- see this thread for proof, its comical-
http://www.sportsbookreview.com/forum/politics-e...ml#post8978785
Last edited by rsnnh12; 04-01-11 at 06:56 PM.
pretty funny when jordan fans try to elevate gasol pippen level when hes an avg player at best. he is not a hall of famer or top 50 greatest of all time. he was actually a joke the way he was manhandled by duncan and nowitzki on a consistent basis. he was so great that his playoff record was as bad as jordans 0-12. lol
kobe did not need gasol to win as the lakers were already in 1st place (15 games over .500) and well on their way to another championship even with kwame at center. gasol was lucky enough to piggyback to 2 rings.
jordan w/o pippen (5 seasons): 0 winning seasons
kobe w/o shaq (7 seasons): 6 winning seasons (3 finals, 2 rings) and only 1 losing season, cause kobe was out injured and coach quit midseason.
facts dont lie.
Gasol has a higher effiency rating in the playoffs than Pippen. Kobe never surpassed Gasol or Shaq in Effiency ratings for the playoffs. He will always be the true #2 on his team
Gasol is the top 1 or 2 at his position. Pippen being top 50 of all time doesnt change that.
and there's no way the lakers were 15 games over .500 when they got gasol. They were at least 40-1 to even win the west at that point, and were 7 pt dogs against toronto the day before they got gasol.
gasol isnt even top 5.
amare
griffin
boozer
love
garnett
nowitzki
all better.
Wow as a bulls fan that made me hard.
The main theme in it is DEFENSE. Michael invented what defense is today. 200 steals and 100 blocks?!? Every time he won a ring he won the scoring title. The dude dominated at both ends of the floor and was the meanest ************ to ever play the game.
this was gasols first game as a laker....
http://www.basketball-reference.com/...802050NJN.html
15 games over .500 (66%)
Last edited by crustyme; 04-01-11 at 07:25 PM.
How did you determine this was his best season? PPG?how come jordan backers always want to omit his first 3 and last 2 seasons? yet they dont mind counting kobes first 2 when he started a total of 6 games.
fact is, jordan had his best season in his 3rd year and was arguably the best player that season. yet they only won 40 games all season and were swept by the celtics. the same celtics that lost at least 3 games to every other playoff opponent.
jordan had great players around him such as oakley & paxson. they were swept cause jordan was his usual ballhog taking nearly 30 shots a game while shooting a miserable 41.7%.
Jordan, Pippen and DennisRodman ,yeah !! great times
yours sincerly
JJRodman
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