[HedgeHog]

Unlike horse racing, where an objection or inquiry can change the final results, I thought auto races were official after the checker flag. Sure, drivers that failed inspection afterward would be penalized but bets always stood in the past. So I was shocked when my bet on Chastain at 10-1 was ruled a loss after he finished first. I later learned he failed post race inspection, but didn't think that would affect bets on him. Is this the new norm for auto racing?

Confirmation: 45887570
Date Placed: 06/16/19 11:36:52
Amount: -25.00
Header: LOST PROP: Odds to Win Nascar Trucks M+M's 200 60361 Ross Chastain (+1000) risk 25.00 win 250.00 (Motor Racing - Odds To Win Weekly Races)
Bet Details:

1. LOST PROP: Odds to Win Nascar Trucks M+M's 200 60361 Ross Chastain (+1000) risk 25.00 win 250.00 (Motor Racing - Odds To Win Weekly Races)

In-Play Graded Bets

[semibluff]

There's no 1 single common rule for Sportsbooks when it comes to auto-racing but the 'standard' or 'normal' rule is that the podium presentation/award of the trophy is considered to be the final result. If a result is changed after that it is irrelevant for betting purposes. Thus if you bet Magnussen to beat Perez in the F1 Monaco Grand Prix you got paid even though Magnussen was demoted some hours after the race. To be crystal clear crossing the finishing line is not the final result, so whilst Verstappen crossed the line 2nd in Monaco he had an in-race 5 second penalty to add which resulted in him finishing a net 4th. This was correctly dealt with before the podium presentation. I can't speak for your race or the book you bet with but that's how I would expect your bet to be dealt with.

[Optional]

Unlike horse racing, where an objection or inquiry can change the final results, I thought auto races were official after the checker flag. Sure, drivers that failed inspection afterward would be penalized but bets always stood in the past. So I was shocked when my bet on Chastain at 10-1 was ruled a loss after he finished first. I later learned he failed post race inspection, but didn't think that would affect bets on him. Is this the new norm for auto racing?

Confirmation: 45887570
Date Placed: 06/16/19 11:36:52
Amount: -25.00
Header: LOST PROP: Odds to Win Nascar Trucks M+M's 200 60361 Ross Chastain (+1000) risk 25.00 win 250.00 (Motor Racing - Odds To Win Weekly Races)
Bet Details:

1. LOST PROP: Odds to Win Nascar Trucks M+M's 200 60361 Ross Chastain (+1000) risk 25.00 win 250.00 (Motor Racing - Odds To Win Weekly Races)

In-Play Graded Bets

5Dimes grades on results across the line. They paid Chastain winner.

Hertiage uses official results after penalties and they paid Moffitt as the winner.



I had Chastain too, and wasnt paid.

[5mike5]

5Dimes grades on results across the line. They paid Chastain winner.

Hertiage uses official results after penalties and they paid Moffitt as the winner.



I had Chastain too, and wasnt paid.

u got regraded??? l didnt remember u telling me that! Shit

Starting to sound like I got very lucky. Especially at +3600

I like simes rules. Who wants ro wait an hour or more ro see if u actually won. I Would have broke something if they took that hit away from me. Lol

[LT Profits]

Unlike horse racing, where an objection or inquiry can change the final results, I thought auto races were official after the checker flag. Sure, drivers that failed inspection afterward would be penalized but bets always stood in the past. So I was shocked when my bet on Chastain at 10-1 was ruled a loss after he finished first. I later learned he failed post race inspection, but didn't think that would affect bets on him. Is this the new norm for auto racing?

[FONT="]Confirmation: 45887570
Date Placed: 06/16/19 11:36:52
Amount: -25.00
Header: LOST PROP: Odds to Win Nascar Trucks M+M's 200 60361 Ross Chastain (+1000) risk 25.00 win 250.00 (Motor Racing - Odds To Win Weekly Races)
Bet Details:

1. LOST PROP: Odds to Win Nascar Trucks M+M's 200 60361 Ross Chastain (+1000) risk 25.00 win 250.00 (Motor Racing - Odds To Win Weekly Races)

[/FONT]
[FONT="][/FONT]
In-Play Graded Bets

If this was 5 Dimes, Chastain would have stayed up. But a majority of books now honor the initial post-race inspections that are usually complete about one hour after checkers. Beyond that, no further DQs would be honored.

[5mike5]

Wonder what these books that didnt pay off Chastain will do if he wins his appeal and is winner again??? Lol. Takes another few days.

Thank god for that 5dimes rule

[LT Profits]

And this is new because this is the first year that three inspections are done immediately after the race (first two finishers + one random).

[LT Profits]

Wonder what these books that didnt pay off Chastain will do if he wins his appeal and is winner again??? Lol. Takes another few days.

Thank god for that 5dimes rule

Refer to my last sentence in Post 5, nothing after initial inspection matters.

[5mike5]

Its shit either way really.

Just glad my ticket was paid off

[LT Profits]

Its shit either way really.

Just glad my ticket was paid off

Yes, 5 Dimes MIGHT be the ONLY USA-facing book left that still pays out on how cars finished on track only.

[acquavallo]

My opinion, which isn't worth squat: It should always be about handle and turnover, ergo quick results posting. Therefore, Futures can be based on "initial" post race inspections- but within the hour, no longer. All other bets should be based on checkered flag plus maybe penalty points IF this is posted within 5 minutes.

Otherwise it just hurts handle on that sport, and turnover for the book.

[HedgeHog]

My bet on Chastain was at Betnow and they do have a listed rule about going by the official results. Funny thing is that I was going to bet him at 5D, where the bet would have won, but they only had him at 8-1. So I shopped around and got 10-1 at BN which ended up biting me in the azz.

[Optional]

Refer to my last sentence in Post 5, nothing after initial inspection matters.

Where are you reading this LT?


And we always had post race inspections btw. They just did not change race results based on them. Just vacated wins a couple of times days later without changing the 2nd place to first.

[5mike5]

Bovada regraded Chastain winner for several friends of mine

Heard other books may have as well so check your accounts

[Optional]

Bovada regraded Chastain winner for several friends of mine

Heard other books may have as well so check your accounts

Do you know if they paid on both Chastain and Moffit?

or did Moffit winners get reversed?

[LT Profits]

Where are you reading this LT?


And we always had post race inspections btw. They just did not change race results based on them. Just vacated wins a couple of times days later without changing the 2nd place to first.

I was referring strictly to NASCAR series, where post-race inspections were done several hours after the race instead of immediately after for top 2 + a random as they do now.

And the wording I see in rules of other books besides 5 Dimes is "Official winner", I do not explicitly see clause where it says official winner as of end of the day. But I am pretty sure there is a separate general clause somewhere for ALL sports where it says any DQ or change of winner after 24 hours is ignored.

[Optional]

I was referring strictly to NASCAR series, where post-race inspections were done several hours after the race instead of immediately after for top 2 + a random as they do now.

And the wording I see in rules of other books besides 5 Dimes is "Official winner", I do not explicitly see clause where it says official winner as of end of the day. But I am pretty sure there is a separate general clause somewhere for ALL sports where it says any DQ or change of winner after 24 hours is ignored.

When the new procedures were announced for this season we had a discussion wondering if books may add a rule like that, that says a specific time period after race end when bets would be permanently graded. But did not think anyone had done so as yet.

I really hope Chastian appeals and wins, just so books are woken up to the fact a change has happened and rules are not 100% clear on this situation at some books.

[5mike5]

Do you know if they paid on both Chastain and Moffit?

or did Moffit winners get reversed?

Not sure but I can ask just know they paid Chastain off.

I will have the Sonoma race thread up in a few hours by the way

[milwaukee mike]

the problem is that books change their rules on this

this was graded as a win at 5dimes... at the time their rules said something like "winners are determined by who crosses the finish line first, without regard to position penalties or post-race inspections".

6/9/19 2:10pm Formula1 Motor Racing 6002 Field wins Canada GP -135*vs Lewis Hamilton wins Canada GP

then they regraded it as a loss a day or 2 later, and when i asked about it they told me they were rewriting the rules to include time penalties during the race because it was confusing!!??

vettel crossed the finish line first

[LT Profits]

the problem is that books change their rules on this

this was graded as a win at 5dimes... at the time their rules said something like "winners are determined by who crosses the finish line first, without regard to position penalties or post-race inspections".

6/9/19 2:10pm Formula1 Motor Racing 6002 Field wins Canada GP -135*vs Lewis Hamilton wins Canada GP

then they regraded it as a loss a day or 2 later, and when i asked about it they told me they were rewriting the rules to include time penalties during the race because it was confusing!!??

vettel crossed the finish line first

Re-writing the rules is fine but that should only apply to FUTURE results. That cannot retroactively go back and change gradings applying rule that did not exist at the time.

[5mike5]

Yeah theres a big diff for an in race penalty in F1 and a post race inspection in nascar but i never looked at their F1 rules.

[kcburg]

Do you know if they paid on both Chastain and Moffit?

or did Moffit winners get reversed?

had Moffit in a parlay was and still is graded a loss

[milwaukee mike]

Yeah theres a big diff for an in race penalty in F1 and a post race inspection in nascar but i never looked at their F1 rules.

correct, but the rules definitely said crosses the line first, until a day or two later when they changed the rules and regraded my bet

now their rules apparently even include post-race inspections but they are pretty unclear

[Optional]

had Moffit in a parlay was and still is graded a loss

Is that as you expected from their rules?

I read Bovada rules to say Moffitt should be paid as winner....



Motor Sports Betting Rules

1. Unless the entire race is canceled, all bets have action (even if a competitor withdraws for any reason).
2. The official winner (Formula 1, INDY or NASCAR) at the conclusion of the race will be used for wagering purposes.
3. For head-to-head bets, both drivers must start the race for the bets to have action.
4. The 'Field' option in a given list of odds featuring drivers' names represents all other drivers not specifically listed who are competing in the race. If a driver in the field wins, the 'Field' is declared the winner for wagering purposes.
5. With the exception of NASCAR, bets can be placed on the driver only (not a specific car). For all NASCAR bets, the wager will be settled according to the car which crosses the finish line provided that the listed driver started the race.
6. Formula 1, INDY and NASCAR events must run within seven days of the originally scheduled start time for wagers to have action.
7. Individual Formula 1 Grand Prix betting is settled on checkered flag, regardless of any subsequent disqualifications.

• Group Betting Pole/Race: The winner is the driver achieving the highest placing at the time of the checkered flag. If all drivers in the group fail to be classified then the driver completing the most laps will be deemed the winner. If all drivers in the group fail to be classified and two or more drivers retired on the same lap then dead-heat rules apply. Drivers are grouped together for betting purposes only
• First Lap Markets: Bets are settled on the first completed lap of the original race start. Any official restarts are disregarded, unless in the original race the first lap is not completed fully. In this case bets will be settled on the first fully completed lap.
• Leader After 1 Lap: For settlement purposes the winner is deemed to be the driver leading the race as they cross the start/finish line after one classified race lap (formation lap not included). In the event of one lap not being fully completed all bets will be void. In the event that a race starts under safety car conditions, bets placed on this market will stand.
• Number of Drivers to Finish the Race: Settled on the number of drivers classed as finishers in the relevant official classification.
• Most Team Points: Settlement will be based on the team accumulating the most points at the end of a specified race. Bets will be settled on the combined points total of both drivers within a manufacturer's team.
• To Finish the Race: Drivers that have completed 90% or more of the number of laps completed by the winner (rounded down to the nearest whole number of laps) are considered finishers in line with the official FIA classification at the time of the podium presentation.
• Podium/Top 6/ Points Finish: The result for settlement is at the time of the checkered Flag. Subsequent disqualifications and/or appeals will not affect bets.
• Dual Forecast: Both drivers must finish in the first two places in the race. Any other finishing position or retirement and the bet is a loser, based on the result at the time of the checkered flag. Subsequent disqualifications do not affect bets. If a driver is not in position to start the formation lap bets involving that driver are void.

8. The Dead Heat rule: When you have a multi-outcome prop or event where two winners tie. If a "dead-heat" is declared on any event, half the stake is applied to the selection at the full odds and the other half is lost. If more than two "dead-heat," the stake is proportioned accordingly (not including sports where you can wager on the draw or tie option (i.e., soccer).
9. Race/Qualifying Match Bets: Best finishing position. If one of the drivers does not finish the race, the other driver is considered the winner. If neither driver finishes the race, then the driver who completed the most laps is the winner. If both drivers complete the same number of laps but do not finish the race, all bets are graded "No Action".
10. Pole position: Settlement will be based on the driver who sets the best time during the final qualifying session. Any subsequent adjustments to grid positions will not count.
11. 1st Driver/Team to retire: If two or more drivers retire during the same lap, dead heat rules will apply.
12. Practice Outrights: Fastest time in the specified practice session.

[Optional]

such a small NASCAR rule change seriously changes how events should be graded and most book's current rules are ambiguous in some situations now.

Milwaukee Mike is correct that 5Dimes always had a line regarding crossing the line in their rules in past years too.

[milwaukee mike]

did 5dimes totally change their rules to the point where they now grade like everyone else... i'm assuming the nascar post-race inspection now counts at all books?

this is the only thing 5dimes says now, they took out the part about crossing the line

"All wagers are graded at a race's conclusion once the winner is verified by officials and standing on the podium. Official results reflecting any changes, disqualifications and position penalties after the podium presentation will not be recognized for wagering purposes."

[Optional]

did 5dimes totally change their rules to the point where they now grade like everyone else... i'm assuming the nascar post-race inspection now counts at all books?

this is the only thing 5dimes says now, they took out the part about crossing the line

"All wagers are graded at a race's conclusion once the winner is verified by officials and standing on the podium. Official results reflecting any changes, disqualifications and position penalties after the podium presentation will not be recognized for wagering purposes."

Not quite like everyone else. I haven't read other rules that specify the podium/victory lane ceremony as cut off time.

The same spirit of the rule there as it was before, just extended a few minutes really.

Best way to have it imho. Every other book I play at is still ambiguous I think.

[milwaukee mike]

Not quite like everyone else. I haven't read other rules that specify the podium/victory lane ceremony as cut off time.

The same spirit of the rule there as it was before, just extended a few minutes really.

Best way to have it imho. Every other book I play at is still ambiguous I think.

books are gonna have a nightmare on their hands if they don't put in some wording about the nascar post-race inspection process... might be today, might be 2 years from now but sooner or later one of these cup race winners is gonna get DQ

[5mike5]

Reads same to me basically. Winner is graded at races end. Not after inspection

[Optional]

Reads same to me basically. Winner is graded at races end. Not after inspection

Did Chastain go to victory lane?

Or was inspection beforehand?

[semibluff]

did 5dimes totally change their rules to the point where they now grade like everyone else... i'm assuming the nascar post-race inspection now counts at all books?

this is the only thing 5dimes says now, they took out the part about crossing the line

"All wagers are graded at a race's conclusion once the winner is verified by officials and standing on the podium. Official results reflecting any changes, disqualifications and position penalties after the podium presentation will not be recognized for wagering purposes."

I think most books will eventually re-write rules to incorporate podium presentations as the official and final result. I'm surprised that this isn't the standard already. The book I worked at incorporated this rule across all motor sport in 1985 to avoid disputes over final results.

[5mike5]

Did Chastain go to victory lane?

Or was inspection beforehand?

Went to victory lane

[milwaukee mike]

does anyone know how heritage and bookmaker are grading nascar matchups after dq?

betonline has been counting the post-race inspection even though it's after the "podium" (victory lane)

[Optional]

does anyone know how heritage and bookmaker are grading nascar matchups after dq?

betonline has been counting the post-race inspection even though it's after the "podium" (victory lane)

SBR asked Heritage to confirm that after an Xfinity race DQ a week or so ago.

I have not heard back as yet.


Could you copy/paste the current Heritage Motorsport rules for us Mike? And we can see if updated. I can't access them easily from here.

[milwaukee mike]

SBR asked Heritage to confirm that after an Xfinity race DQ a week or so ago.

I have not heard back as yet.


Could you copy/paste the current Heritage Motorsport rules for us Mike? And we can see if updated. I can't access them easily from here.

neither heritage or bookmaker really has clear rules about it... but i have some matchups tonight that are still pending at both, it seems like they have been waiting to grade them until after the inspection (if that means anything).

here are the rules at heritage, other than the "official" winner part, no real mention of what happens with dq

MOTOR RACING

• If a race or qualifier is postponed for any reason, all wagers will remain valid for 48 hours. After 48 hours all wagers will be canceled and the monies refunded.
• The Official winner of the race shall be the winner of the race for wagering purposes; this includes all races which are halted prematurely for any reason.
• In head-to-head matchups, both drivers must start the race in order for the wager to be considered action.
• If a starting driver who has completed at least one lap is replaced during the race by another driver for any reason, the starting driver will be awarded the finishing driver's position at the end of the race.
• Formula 1: The start of any race is defined as the signal to start the warm up lap. Drivers must start the race in order for wagers to be considered action.
• NASCAR: The start of any race is defined as the signal to start the warm up lap. Drivers must start the race in order for wagers to be considered action.