[warrant]

Pool manipulation is pretty hard to do, unless your at a small track.

At a track like The Meadowlands, WEG or the Chicago circuit, it would cost a bunch of money in an attempt to create a false favorite.

More than most professional bettors would be willing to invest in a horse they didint want to bet. At a small track on the other hand, $50 or $100 will do a lot to change the way the tote board looks.

The "theory" used to be that "smart money" was bet early. Im not so sure I believe that anymore. If I'm at the track or OTB and betting a race, I watch the tote board from about 4 minutes out. If the horse im interested in doesent drop every flash, I will think twice about my wager.


Another thing to think about is that often money from simulcast pools is added to the tracks pool after the bell rings. I bet a longshot at Mohawk about 4 years ago, tote board was showing 22 or 23-1. After the simulcast money was dumped into the pool, that little beauty ended up paying $59! I swore id never forget that mares name but of course i did lol


All systems are destined to failure...nothing works 100% of the time so risk takes its toll on anything that is designed.

Pools today are contributed from many sources (not like the old times). You have money from the track by the people in attendance who wager on their live racing product. You have money coming in from all their off track locations. Add the money from simulcast outlets which can be other tracks and their otbs.

This mixture of funds adds to the pot but most tracks have small pools none the less. Many times at these smaller tracks a person who desires to get the public on a false favorite will bet as the windows open something like $500 to win on a horse with little chance of winning.

He waits until about post time and goes to his favorite teller to have the ticket cancelled and get a refund of his $500. I have seen more than a few times but tracks today have programs installed which alerts the mutuel manager about these things and the mutuel teller will be called in. Plus they have video camera set up everywhere you make a bet these days. All they need is the time when that ticket was cancelled and view the tape of that window and they got you and the teller.

In the old days the tellers had to eat their mistakes (pay for the ticket themselves if they could not sell it) as there were no methods of cancelling the tickets. Today, the computerizaed machines are open about 8 seconds after the start of the race so that the tellers can cancel their mistakes

[cobra_king]

It's almost impossible to do in Win pools, but i've seen it attempted more than a few times in the show pools on the WEG circuit. Large sized show bet with about 5 or 6 minutes out, trying to force money onto other horses as people see "value" on different horses in the show pool. Then just before post time, withdrawing about 75% of the bet out and leaving the other 25% in on the horse which now will not have near the money on it as you would expect with all the other money going to other horses. The other way it's done is all 100% of the money is withdrawn from the pool and the actual wager is made offshore. Of course i see this done sometimes by guys who aren't the "sharpest knives in the drawer" so whether it works or not still depends on your ability to handicap the race properly.

[gambleonclaimers]

This post is a copy of I guess its his post or I would assume its his post on another forum. Any way pool manipulation occurs on a daily basis and it has to do with cross tabulization and finding ineffiencies and plugging the holes in the computer age this can be done very easily. The decoy is a juvenile old trick that in the computer age only fools the 70 yr olds. If you wanna read my whole response go to the other forum. I believe it details some articles about Dr Z, Bill Benter and a few other stock gurus who used the track as their own market.

[warrant]

its mr needhams post, forgot to add that in, i shot him a pm asking if i could post a few of his things, he agreed

[globetrotter]

its mr needhams post, forgot to add that in, i shot him a pm asking if i could post a few of his things, he agreed

it's good that he agreed. i wouldn't have been able to read it! it's a good post!