[Dirty Sanchez]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/hors...g/13470178.stm

Interesting article on a group of jockeys/trainers in the UK who were allegedly "communicating" to help along the outcomes of races. I know if I had bets on some of these horses I would be pissed. But it's a reason the industry as a whole is in the dumps.

There are many tracks/organizations who have gone into bankruptcy or have closed all together. The horse racing industry needs a shot in the arm, because if it stays on the current course it's on, the amount of tracks/seasons may dwindle even more.

[str]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/hors...g/13470178.stm

Interesting article on a group of jockeys/trainers in the UK who were allegedly "communicating" to help along the outcomes of races. I know if I had bets on some of these horses I would be pissed. But it's a reason the industry as a whole is in the dumps.

There are many tracks/organizations who have gone into bankruptcy or have closed all together. The horse racing industry needs a shot in the arm, because if it stays on the current course it's on, the amount of tracks/seasons may dwindle even more.

Anywhere there is gambling within a sport , there will be people on the take. Not many, but sadly, there will be. Hope this case is not true but we will find out .
As for the tracks, the biggest problem today is the population of available horses running to the number of races carded. 5-6 horse fields , usually with one prohibitive favorite, is a terrible betting opportunity in most cases. So the handle goes down. Eventually , due to the cost of having live racing, and/or the greed of track management the takeout is increased and things go from bad to worse. Horseman at any particular track do not want to give up there racing dates. It would put them out of business or make them move long distances with no guarantee of stall space.. As a result, it becomes a vicious cycle.
Only way to deal with this is to cut racing dates . No other way around it.
Back in the 70s most tracks shut down for several months in the winter.
Meets were shorter. Md. ran in the winter( pretty sure the only track that did) on the East coast, but would close in the summer. Delaware and Monmouth or Liberty Bell ran then.
Full, competitive fields with low takeout will bring players back but I don't see that happening anytime soon.

[mrginandtonic]

I think it's not a bad idea to cut down racing dates. Like Hong Kong racing, they only hv racing twice a week and it is such a big event that every race has full field and big paid outs. Definitely worth looking into.

[TonyP]

anywhere there is money there are thieves.

[TonyP]

I think it's not a bad idea to cut down racing dates. Like Hong Kong racing, they only hv racing twice a week and it is such a big event that every race has full field and big paid outs. Definitely worth looking into.

then what do all of us everyday players do?

[thezbar]

Horse racing is fixed in certain ways. Not all horses are in a given race to win it. Its part of the handicapping puzzle. Barry Irvin addresses the medication issue during the Preakness broadcast. This is a big black eye for the sport. Until things become more standardized with regards to testing and penalties the perception of cheating will remain in the minds of the average public.

[Art Vandeleigh]

Wow, the article says that punishment for deliberately holding back horses to lose is 5 -25 years suspension, no mercy there.

[str]

Horse racing is fixed in certain ways. Not all horses are in a given race to win it. Its part of the handicapping puzzle. Barry Irvin addresses the medication issue during the Preakness broadcast. This is a big black eye for the sport. Until things become more standardized with regards to testing and penalties the perception of cheating will remain in the minds of the average public.

With all due respect to you, Barry Irwin is nothing more than a loud mouth blow hard that does not know shit from shinola about medication. It is the constant misuse of medication by vets as well as trainers that have stained the game. Not by all , but by way to many.
ALL the other nonsense is shameful and I will be doing a write up on drugs and racing commissioners in the next day or 2 in my Q and A thread .
Racing opened up a huge can of worms in the 70s with Lasix. They along with the Breeding industry are now paying the price for that mistake.

[str]

Wow, the article says that punishment for deliberately holding back horses to lose is 5 -25 years suspension, no mercy there.

If guilty, they should get life!

[DaHoss]

thats why there are supertrainers out there... all you have to do is follow the pharmaceutical trail

[scratbandit]

LOL... Always follow the lasix////

[sq764]

there are tons of point skimming scandals in college basketball too..
then there's the ref scandal in the nba...

where money can be won, there is corruption

[thezbar]

thats why there are supertrainers out there... all you have to do is follow the pharmaceutical trail

There was a trainer at Los Alamitos in the late 70's that was winning at 30%+ for several years. Then all of the sudden he disappeared! As it turned out his father in law was a chemist
The list of California trainers that used co2 before testing was introduced several years ago is a long one, including some hof trainers. Some have admitted to it. "My owners want to win and I need to stay competitive with the other trainers that use it. Co2 is used to delay the onset of lactic acid build up in muscles.
The pharmaceutical trail still exists. Only the names of the drugs have changed to protect the guilty.

[thezbar]

With all due respect to you, Barry Irwin is nothing more than a loud mouth blow hard that does not know shit from shinola about medication. It is the constant misuse of medication by vets as well as trainers that have stained the game. Not by all , but by way to many.
ALL the other nonsense is shameful and I will be doing a write up on drugs and racing commissioners in the next day or 2 in my Q and A thread .
Racing opened up a huge can of worms in the 70s with Lasix. They along with the Breeding industry are now paying the price for that mistake.

Barry Irwin is the front man for Team Valor a racing partnership that has been in the game nearly twenty years. The group has raced many top race horses including divisional champions. Included in their group is Jeff Siegal HRTV racing personality and handicapper. I would agree with the term blow hard. But disagree with the implication he is ignorant with the issues regarding horse medication.
I've played poker with someone who invested in the group in the 90's. He described Mr. Irwin as a clever businessman and a jerk. His investment yielded nothing. The horses never raced.

[Statman]

Thanks for prompting this discussion. Have there been any incidents in North America at the so called "A" tracks recently where fixing has been going on? I've always wondered about this but it seems there is not much to be found. During the Preakness broadcast on last Saturday, Barry Irwin mentioned he'd like to see the "FBI" brought in to regulate the use of drugs in the sport. Seems like pretty strong words on his part and I chuckled when he was asked by Costas on why he has hired extra security as he feels he is a "target". I thought he might have been referring to Rick Dutrow who has been suspended a number of times for drug violations with his horses. I'd like to see these dialogues more "out in the open" instead of being behind closed doors.

[str]

Barry Irwin is the front man for Team Valor a racing partnership that has been in the game nearly twenty years. The group has raced many top race horses including divisional champions. Included in their group is Jeff Siegal HRTV racing personality and handicapper. I would agree with the term blow hard. But disagree with the implication he is ignorant with the issues regarding horse medication.
I've played poker with someone who invested in the group in the 90's. He described Mr. Irwin as a clever businessman and a jerk. His investment yielded nothing. The horses never raced.

I know Barry Irwin very well from the racing end of things and I know all about Team Valor. He pays his vet bills. As far as I am concerned his expertise starts and ends there. I have no evidence from by time in the game that supports him being anything but what I said he is. Again, I have no bone to pick with you and will politely agree to disagree but I could count thousands of people within the industry that have forgotten more about racing medication than he will ever know. I am positive that I am one of those and I have been out of it for over 10 years.

[Statman]

I know Barry Irwin very well from the racing end of things and I know all about Team Valor. He pays his vet bills. As far as I am concerned his expertise starts and ends there. I have no evidence from by time in the game that supports him being anything but what I said he is. Again, I have no bone to pick with you and will politely agree to disagree but I could count thousands of people within the industry that have forgotten more about racing medication than he will ever know. I am positive that I am one of those and I have been out of it for over 10 years.

Intersting thoughts..

[gtkid911]

Horse racing is fixed until they get rid of lasix. also exchange betting will kill horse racing since you can bet a horse to lose. losing a race is a lot easier than winning one

[canuck]

Any opinions on the common perception that standardbred are more likely to be fixed?

[str]

Horse racing is fixed until they get rid of lasix. also exchange betting will kill horse racing since you can bet a horse to lose. losing a race is a lot easier than winning one

Horse racing is fixed until they get rid of lasix.



That is ridiculous. But with having to draw your own conclusion based on limited resources, I can understand why you might think that. I do not blame you, I blame racing and the beat writers that try to cover it.

[str]

Any opinions on the common perception that standardbred are more likely to be fixed?

I do not know anything about standardbred racing.

[MrExacta]

...DRF screenshot from a few years ago.

MrExacta -`

[thezbar]

Any opinions on the common perception that standardbred are more likely to be fixed?

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/mo...o_big_m-2.html

[mtneer1212]

I think it is important to discern the difference between fixing and performance enhancing. Lasix does mask many performance enhancing drugs.

Fixing is an act by a jockey not making an effort to win.

[jim]

it's a rare harness race that doesn't have some degree of ''holding back'' or
''not trying'' while betting the others in the race that you know are.

not fixing per se but works out about the same.

[thezbar]

It was the Holiday season and I'd studied the night before looking to pay for my shopping that coming afternoon. The favorite in the first at Aqueduct looked solid. Listed at 6/5 in Sweep's drf handicap, I was surprised to see his odds 5/2 as I entered the local O.T.B. The current favorite was 6/5 bet down from a morning line of 4/1. This horse A One Jet had just won for 7500 and was being double jumped in class after racing just five days before. He'd been claimed by a high % trainer named Greg Martin. Still I planed to play the horse I came to bet in the first place. I hesitated once a saw the horses in the post parade. As a capping tool I always try to look at a horse before wagering. A One Jet was doing an Irish Jig as they paraded in front of the stands. He looked really good. I decided to watch the odds and sure enough money started to come in on the morning line favorite. As the horses neared the starting gate I got another look at A One Jet. He was dancing and looked as if he was a coiled spring ready to expand outwards. Against my better judgment I changed my betting plan and put 50 to win on A One Jet and two ten dollar doubles keying him to two horses in the second race. All based on the betting action and the way the horse looked and acted pre race. As the gates open he was the second favorite at 9/5 with the favorite settling in at 7/5.
A One Jet opened up on the far turn and won by 10 posing an improved Beyer # of 30 points. I hit the double, lost a couple races after that, then took care of my shopping responsibilities. I'll never forget that race!
In the months to come trainer Martin was charged and later convicted of fixing A horse race. He was sentenced to five years in prison. He and others conspired to administer a Co2 milkshake which delays the onset of lactic acid in the muscles. A One Jet never repeated that effort again during his racing career.
Its experiences like this that makes me think some horse races can and have been fixed.

[str]

I think it is important to discern the difference between fixing and performance enhancing. Lasix does mask many performance enhancing drugs.

Fixing is an act by a jockey not making an effort to win.

While Lasix DID help mask SOME drugs back when testing could not keep up with new drugs flooding the scene because of crooked trainers and even more crooked vets, this problem no longer exists. Lasix no longer is the mask it once was.

[str]

It was the Holiday season and I'd studied the night before looking to pay for my shopping that coming afternoon. The favorite in the first at Aqueduct looked solid. Listed at 6/5 in Sweep's drf handicap, I was surprised to see his odds 5/2 as I entered the local O.T.B. The current favorite was 6/5 bet down from a morning line of 4/1. This horse A One Jet had just won for 7500 and was being double jumped in class after racing just five days before. He'd been claimed by a high % trainer named Greg Martin. Still I planed to play the horse I came to bet in the first place. I hesitated once a saw the horses in the post parade. As a capping tool I always try to look at a horse before wagering. A One Jet was doing an Irish Jig as they paraded in front of the stands. He looked really good. I decided to watch the odds and sure enough money started to come in on the morning line favorite. As the horses neared the starting gate I got another look at A One Jet. He was dancing and looked as if he was a coiled spring ready to expand outwards. Against my better judgment I changed my betting plan and put 50 to win on A One Jet and two ten dollar doubles keying him to two horses in the second race. All based on the betting action and the way the horse looked and acted pre race. As the gates open he was the second favorite at 9/5 with the favorite settling in at 7/5.
A One Jet opened up on the far turn and won by 10 posing an improved Beyer # of 30 points. I hit the double, lost a couple races after that, then took care of my shopping responsibilities. I'll never forget that race!
In the months to come trainer Martin was charged and later convicted of fixing A horse race. He was sentenced to five years in prison. He and others conspired to administer a Co2 milkshake which delays the onset of lactic acid in the muscles. A One Jet never repeated that effort again during his racing career.
Its experiences like this that makes me think some horse races can and have been fixed.

This type of example is one of a short list of reasons why I retired from racing in my 40s. 5 years was not nearly enough in my opinion.

[thezbar]

This type of example is one of a short list of reasons why I retired from racing in my 40s. 5 years was not nearly enough in my opinion.

Understandable! Its difficult enough as it is without having to compete with cheaters.

[sq764]

ive found a lot of the time people who cant win say everything is fixed..

[unusialsusp5]

fixed or not fixed how do you define it...harness racing is a game that trainers/drivers use actual races for work miles (do not try) is that fixing? t-breds don't run that many lifetime races to fix them and no one really knows how a horse feels on a given day...just bet and spread and hope...remember to throw out the chalk and go from there...just try to win the money that people lose betting on favorites...

[thezbar]

It was a Friday night with a double carryover at Los Alamitos. I'm not a big pick six player by any means but I drove out in time to play a $96.00 ticket. I liked the card and thought going in I could hit this thing. The first, third and fifth legs were Arabian races, the second fourth and last legs were quarter horse events. I singled a 3/5 shot in the first leg. Right away I was in trouble on the back stretch when the track announcer called "and the favorite has a lot of running to do". Odd as the animal had shown speed in the pp.lines. In the stretch the favorite rallied late to snag third but was beaten a good ten lengths. He would return to win his next race. I hit the second leg. The third leg a used two horses, a 6/5 favorite who finished a bottled up fifth with no racing room and a 9/5 second choice who lost a tight photo to the # one entry that was 5/1. That photo lost cost me the pick 5.
I hit the next QH race and the final Arabian race with a 6/1 shot who beat another 3/5 shot who got pounded late at the windows. As the fireworks from Disneyland were visual in the eastern horizon I listened to a chorus of boo's for the rider of the beaten favorite, a leading rider named Richard Pfau. In fact he had lost on all three favorite he'd ridden in this pick six sequence. I had the final Qh race but 4/6 pays nothing.

As things would surface later Jockey Phau had been paid $2100 to stiff those favorites. A betting runner bet a Pick six in the off track center in T.J. Mexico. They left out one winner on their ticket. Even with the knowledge they had they screwed up and couldn't capitalize.

The horse racing radio shows were on this story soon after. The press there that night was quoted as saying " Not only was Mr. Pfau not trying, he was a unconvincing actor in his attempts to appear as if he was trying. He was sued in civil court by the owner of the one Arabian and forced to pay damages. He was barred from ever riding again. In addition he was sentenced to five years in prison.

Sadly his riding career had promise and he was doing well. To this day he remains near the top of all Los Alamitos race riders in certain categories. What a learned that night is when you bet your monies you're taking a chance. And they are no guarantees.

[sq764]

fixed or not fixed how do you define it...harness racing is a game that trainers/drivers use actual races for work miles (do not try) is that fixing? t-breds don't run that many lifetime races to fix them and no one really knows how a horse feels on a given day...just bet and spread and hope...remember to throw out the chalk and go from there...just try to win the money that people lose betting on favorites...

you cant just blindly say toss the chalk and people lose betting on favorites..plenty of people win playing on favorites.. as long as they are seletive