[wtt0315]

I hate to do it espically after being with them 5 years, but herman refuses to do anything on the issue and i feel I am right as both tracks have consolation payoffs but of course they wont show it because they scratch before their totes were open. I bet with betjam early in the morning and since they are not connected to tote the track wont show the payout. I feel that i shouldnt just lose money for a pick because the horse didnt run. Well we will see how it goes. I think I will use tote related tracks for now on.

here is the link to my problem
http://www.sportsbookreview.com/forum/horse-raci...t-problem.html

[zebra58]

good luck wtt

[mikeyg]

I had the same problem about three years ago, after about six phone calls with Scottie he made it right. Go directly to him and don't bother with Herman

[gtkid911]

SUre they will resolve it since you are in the right. The picks should automatically revert to post time favorite as it is the norm everywhere. Hopefully SBR can resolve this

[BGboothA]

Keep me posted I play a great deal of horses on bet jam. I know I ave been paid in your situation.

[str]

Hi WTT.
I have to ask a question. Did the track have a consolation payoff for these races?
If the scratch occurred before the betting was open at the track , how do they have a consolation payout. I realize the rule about getting the post time favorite if you bet on a horse that is a scratch after the betting is open but it should be impossible to bet on a scratched horse if it was scratched BEFORE the pool was open.
I would think that no consolation occurred with the track and Bet Jam is therefore trying to use there own set of rules OR they are implementing something based on a misinterpretation.

[wtt0315]

ok will. herman isnt doing anything for me and usually he is good but contacted scotty so hoping i can work it out with him, before the complaint gets started. this happened once before with me about a year ago. scotty called me and we talked and he paid me but funny story about that was it was only 13 dollar payout and we were on the phone for 25 minutes and i got a charge on my att cell phone bill for 83 dollars for taking a international call on my phone

[wtt0315]

str you are exactly right. thats what is going on. I bet the pick 3's at 7:32 am at betjam so no scratches were shown. The horses were scratch right before betting started so the track wont show consoliation for the horses because they are not showing anyone bet on them. If it would of occured after it would of shown it. So betjam is going off the fact they cant see it from equibase. I just feel i shouldnt be penalized for betting early. i feel like i bet on horses that didnt run and got nothing for it.

Hi WTT.
I have to ask a question. Did the track have a consolation payoff for these races?
If the scratch occurred before the betting was open at the track , how do they have a consolation payout. I realize the rule about getting the post time favorite if you bet on a horse that is a scratch after the betting is open but it should be impossible to bet on a scratched horse if it was scratched BEFORE the pool was open.
I would think that no consolation occurred with the track and Bet Jam is therefore trying to use there own set of rules OR they are implementing something based on a misinterpretation.

[str]

str you are exactly right. thats what is going on. I bet the pick 3's at 7:32 am at betjam so no scratches were shown. The horses were scratch right before betting started so the track wont show consoliation for the horses because they are not showing anyone bet on them. If it would of occured after it would of shown it. So betjam is going off the fact they cant see it from equibase. I just feel i shouldnt be penalized for betting early. i feel like i bet on horses that didnt run and got nothing for it.

Bet Jam has to be able to see that the horse was a scratch. At least if they try too. Unless they have posted in house rules as to this exact scenario( it has to happen a lot with people just like you who play hours before the windows open. Most of the late scratches occur between 9 and 11 AM. The track vet comes by the barn and looks at the horse trying to be scratched , talks with the trainer and usually allows the scratch to happen probably 3-5 a day per track average at least. ) in my mind the ticket should be a refund of the part of the bet involving the scratch at least .Not the whole ticket , just the amount that the scratch reduced it by.
They must have policies in line for this. Have you checked Bet Jams rules on pick 3s?
Hope it works out for you.

[wtt0315]

pretty vague and dont see anything about this situation
only thing is this
9A. For Pick 3 / 4 / 5 and Daily Double wagers when a horse is scratched in any leg, we follow the official payout results posted by the track. If the track offers a consolation payout, you will receive the post time favorite and that consolation payout. If the track does not offer such a payout, you can request a refund for Pick 3 / 4 / 5 and Daily Double wagers where the other selections in the wager were winners.

[JakeLc]

I've played at BJ in the past and the only issues I've had with them were regarding scratches, consolations etc.
I had a single scratch at the start of a pick 3 the chalk won the first leg of the pick 3, the last legs had the winners and it was graded as a loss. They cited rules 8 and 9A as to the reasons it should be graded as a loss.
It took numerous emails but they eventually did correct the situation.

[strighten]

Thats weird I hope it work out for you.

[str]

There rules are the problem. This is really quite simple if they want to be fair.
There should be a refund of any portion of the ticket that was effected by the scratch. The rest of the ticket should stand on it's own merit.
Similar to what would happen if you boxed 3 horses in an exacta and one of them scratched. the 6.00 ticket ( @ 1.00 per for 6 selections) would be reduced to a two horse box and 2.00. The other 4.00 would be refunded.
So if the pick three was 1,2,3-4,5,6- 7,8,9 , it would be reduced down to a ticket that might read 2,3-4,5,6-7,8,9. The other combination's would be refunded.
It should not matter if the other legs won or not.
Now I see how they have worded there rules but they really do not speak to this problem and they should.
IMO I would ask for the refunded version and let the rest of the ticket stand on it's own merit. Asking for the betting favorite to replace the scratch is , in my mind , a little unfair. Them asking for the other legs to be winners is just as unfair.
I know that I have seen this happen before at the track itself, where some pools were open but not the pick 3 pool yet but I can not remember the circumstances.
Maybe the Preakness or something like that but it would seem to me to be a fair compromise.
I wish you luck and I hope they add a clause in there rules to speak to this situation in the future.

[robmpink]

If you ever clarify anything with Herman over the phone, that isn't good enough. He is a two faced liar. SBR won't back you unless you have something in writing. Sad to say, this A+ book has a liar working for them. I know your case isn't a he said/he said issue, but just a word of caution if Herman tells you something verbally, there is a chance he will lie. SBR won't help you.

[wtt0315]

yeah just talked to herman he said nope rules say if consolation payoff we do it if not we can't sorry nothing i can do

[str]

So if you bet an early scratch in a pick 3 you lose?

[wtt0315]

yes i guess this is the email i just got from herman
They need to 1. either stop wagering until the track has started wagering or fix their rules. I am pretty frustrated with this.

Here are the rules we have at BetJm regarding your scratched horse in your pick 3

8. For Pick 3 / 4/ 5 and Daily Double wagers when a horse is scratched in any leg, we follow the official payout results posted by the track.

There were no consolation payouts posted by the track

[wtt0315]

So if you bet an early scratch in a pick 3 you lose?

yes they do about 7 months ago i had a single in first leg of a pick 3 that scratched. The favorite won and they graded my bet has loss. I didnt really fight it because it was a 2 dollar pick 3 and the payoff was like 6 bucks and it wasnt worth my time

[str]

That's a bad house rule.

Not fair at all.

Sorry man.

[wtt0315]

scotty just sent me a email saying he would look into it and get back with me. hopefully it can be fixed. I really like them and been with them for 5 years.

[robmpink]

Do they use dgs software? The same as SBR horses?

[robmpink]

Common sense is lacking here. He must think you have an advantage, which isn't the case, or just knows shot about horse racing.

[AbeFroman]

I'm sure there is a reason you play on Betjam, but this is a cleat cut case for sites like Twinspires and xpressbet.

[turfnsport]

yes i guess this is the email i just got from herman
They need to 1. either stop wagering until the track has started wagering or fix their rules. I am pretty frustrated with this.

Here are the rules we have at BetJm regarding your scratched horse in your pick 3

8. For Pick 3 / 4/ 5 and Daily Double wagers when a horse is scratched in any leg, we follow the official payout results posted by the track.

There were no consolation payouts posted by the track

WTT,
What was the actual date, race, track, and wager?

[sickeric]

since you bet before the totes opened(the "hub"), you get a refund on all runners(numbers) and not the favorite or consolation payoffs.... totally different story if you placed your wagers after the host track opened its mutuels........ The site (bet jam) in this case shouldn't offer multi race gimmick bets until the host track opens its mutuels.

just my 2 cents but I could be wrong

[wtt0315]

WTT, What was the actual date, race, track, and wager?

sat,
calder race 1,2,3 paid 90

evangline race 1,2,3 paid 46

[Brewers in 7]

You should just get a refund on all scratched runners IMO.. Not that anyone should ever bet pick 6's offshore, but someone once asked if you hit a pick 6 offshore, but no one hits it in the pool what happens since their technically is no pick 6 payout

[wtt0315]

yeah i usually do it for convenance since i usually have money there and just to lazy to go a few miles to track or go to cvs to get a green dot for tvg or other u.s based. Chalk it up to experience i guess. We will see where it goes and I just learn my lesson which ever way it comes out

You should just get a refund on all scratched runners IMO.. Not that anyone should ever bet pick 6's offshore, but someone once asked if you hit a pick 6 offshore, but no one hits it in the pool what happens since their technically is no pick 6 payout

[wtt0315]

well scotty just emailed me and said he talked to herman and since their was no track payout for scratches they have no idea of what a consolation would pay so he understands i am dissapointed but he can't do anything.
oh well
live and learn

[wtt0315]

ok betjam fixed. it they gave me a refund on the two loss wagers which was 25 bucks and then scotty gave me a freeplay for 111.00 for all the trouble and time we went back and forth ,which was the difference of the two. i think this is very generous and i want to say thanks. I think they are going to add a rule about early scratches gets back refunds which will be a big help. Also guys thanks for the feedback

[turfnsport]

Good deal...In dealing with a lot of these guys over the years, they are "sports guys" and not "horse guys" and it takes some time for them to digest the problem. If you deal with them with some patience and explain the issue thoroughly as you did, it will end in your favor.

[robmpink]

Guy, what f'in software do they use? There is a point to why I'm asking.

[wtt0315]

sorry rob. didnt see your post. its the same as the one here at sbr