[JBEX]

looked up Frank Whiteley on equibase..He had over 40% winners from 2000+ starts
..had no idea he won at that rate..incredible

[str]

[QUOTE=JBEX;31122070]looked up Frank Whiteley on equibase..He had over 40% winners from 2000+ starts
..had no idea he won at that rate..incredible





Incredible stats JBEX.


We all talk or hear about a Mt. Rushmore of this or that. There had only been 32 presidents when it was built. So to say having a Mt. Rushmore of many players, etc. really does exclude a ton of greatness no matter the list.
That said, if someone had to try and do that with trainers, which would REALLY exclude a lot of GREAT trainers, I can't imagine a list that would not include Mr. Whiteley. He was the old school trainer in the early seventies. If you wonder what he was like day to day, look at Barcley Tagg. He cloned himself with the same style of old school , no nonsense, dedication to his craft style of training that he learned from Mr. Whiteley.

As I eluded to in previous posts, I did not realize the magnitude of greatness I was around at the time. I carried on a couple of short conversations with him when I was soooo young and inexperienced. Looking back, I realize what an honor it was. Something I will always be a bit in awe of. But when I was doing it, I was just talking or listening. Like no big deal.

Conversely, when I was a trainer, probably late 70's or early 80's, I was lucky enough to meet Mickey Mantle at Pimlico in the winners circle for some race I won during Preakness week. Being my and many peoples childhood hero, I knew exactly what an honor that was. Gotta admit, I could barely speak. Totally in awe. Must have acted like a fool. Lol.

[JBEX]

yes you've talked about meeting him near the early in your career and can certainly understand that being a thrill..I wasn't aware he could be considered amongst the top 4 and that's obviuosly real impressive

looked up allen jerkens who is also considered one of the all-time greats (maybe not on the level of Frank but up there) and in stark contrast he had over 20k starts and came in @ 18%..

one of the things I noticed when looking at both of their careers besides the disparity in starts was that they both started to have there biggest years later in their life..Whiteley around 1965 (he was 50) and pretty much through the late 70's (last year 1986)..Jerkens almost 20 years later 1985 (he was 56) and was very successful through the 00's and tailed off a lot by the 10's..looks like the former started in the late 1940's and latter early 1950's..I'm going by earnings on the equibase page and not saying they may not have had good horses before that..Both of them it took a while especially for Jerkens..Maybe in Whiteley's case that's not so long ..Besides talent of the trainer guess a lot has to do with the clients you acquire..Always remember Jerkens being associated with Hobeau Farm when I was aware of him and think if I remember correctly they were the principles of Dreyfuss mutual funds



Can imagine getting a chance to meet Mickey Mantle back then..He was around the conclusion of his career before I was aware what baseball was (not complaining about that)..A real icon of the game and in general as everyone knows..seems like a lot of ballplayers really liked the races as you've mentioned many times meeting hometown and visiting players at the maryland tracks..
think I brought up once before ,I'd guess mid 90's but late 80's wouldn't surprise me ..Lou Piniella and a few other Yankees having a real good time at the Meadowlands (can't remember who the others were)..He just missed a triple that would've got him out as he put it lol

[str]

yes you've talked about meeting him near the early in your career and can certainly understand that being a thrill..I wasn't aware he could be considered amongst the top 4 and that's obviuosly real impressive

looked up allen jerkens who is also considered one of the all-time greats (maybe not on the level of Frank but up there) and in stark contrast he had over 20k starts and came in @ 18%..

one of the things I noticed when looking at both of their careers besides the disparity in starts was that they both started to have there biggest years later in their life..Whiteley around 1965 (he was 50) and pretty much through the late 70's (last year 1986)..Jerkens almost 20 years later 1985 (he was 56) and was very successful through the 00's and tailed off a lot by the 10's..looks like the former started in the late 1940's and latter early 1950's..I'm going by earnings on the equibase page and not saying they may not have had good horses before that..Both of them it took a while especially for Jerkens..Maybe in Whiteley's case that's not so long ..Besides talent of the trainer guess a lot has to do with the clients you acquire..Always remember Jerkens being associated with Hobeau Farm when I was aware of him and think if I remember correctly they were the principles of Dreyfuss mutual funds



Can imagine getting a chance to meet Mickey Mantle back then..He was around the conclusion of his career before I was aware what baseball was (not complaining about that)..A real icon of the game and in general as everyone knows..seems like a lot of ballplayers really liked the races as you've mentioned many times meeting hometown and visiting players at the maryland tracks..
think I brought up once before ,I'd guess mid 90's but late 80's wouldn't surprise me ..Lou Piniella and a few other Yankees having a real good time at the Meadowlands (can't remember who the others were)..He just missed a triple that would've got him out as he put it lol

Q. looked up allen jerkens who is also considered one of the all-time greats (maybe not on the level of Frank but up there) and in stark contrast he had over 20k starts and came in @ 18%..

A. IMO, he was up there with Mr. Whiteley. If I picked four , off the top of my head, with not a lot of thought, it would be Ben Jones, Charlie Wittingham, Frank Whiteley and Allen Jerkins . But I would probably be shocked when some one said " hey what about .....".
That is why 4 is way too small a number IMO. And I'm leaning on MY era pretty much. Like in baseball if I named players from the 50s,60s,70s, 80s and Babe Ruth, well what about Cobb, Walter Johnson, Gerhig, and those guys. Again, 4 just isn't enough I don't think.


Q. one of the things I noticed when looking at both of their careers besides the disparity in starts was that they both started to have there biggest years later in their life..Whiteley around 1965 (he was 50) and pretty much through the late 70's (last year 1986)..Jerkens almost 20 years later 1985 (he was 56) and was very successful through the 00's and tailed off a lot by the 10's..looks like the former started in the late 1940's and latter early 1950's..I'm going by earnings on the equibase page and not saying they may not have had good horses before that..Both of them it took a while especially for Jerkens..Maybe in Whiteley's case that's not so long ..Besides talent of the trainer guess a lot has to do with the clients you acquire..Always remember Jerkens being associated with Hobeau Farm when I was aware of him and think if I remember correctly they were the principles of Dreyfuss mutual funds.


A. The game has certainly changed over the last 50 years with many more opportunities afforded to younger trainers. Even in 76 when I started, I was 21/22. I did not know anyone else that was a trainer near my age. All the trainers of the really nice horses were at least in there mid 40's if I recall correctly and guys like Mr. Henry Clark were late 60'or 70's. Young trainers just did not get big name owners .
It was very much like that in Md. and seemingly in NY as well. Seemed as though when I was at Monmouth as a groom early 70's most of the trainers were in there 40s, 50s or 60s. The ones with the high money owners were. Hope I'm not forgetting someone who was pretty young. But that's how it seemed. Training claimers was one thing but training for the big name owners and breeders was another.



It was fun to see the out of towners at the track before they went to the ballpark. Piniella, Nettles, Rivers, and I can't remember a couple others. They were at Timonium in the summer for the first 5 races all the time when they were in town. And yes, they would sit together and it always looked like they were having a lot of fun busting one another's chops and betting.

[JBEX]

think you have to throw bobby frankel in there too..after that I think it's a steep cliff to the next best (just considering 1970-2000) ..think shug and Bill mott are knocking at the door and both of them had a significant part of their career in that time period..todd and chad a little too young but they'll be in consideration when they call it quits..think the latter two are a level above the prior 2 (mott,shug)

on a separate note if I had to name the 5 (ok 7) trainers who stick out (to me) in ny in the above time period (70-00).. excluding shug,mott and the chief

no particular order

mike hushion
gasper moschera
rick schossberg
flint schulhoffer
woody
frank martin
your mentor



.

[str]

[QUOTE=JBEX;31124836]think you have to throw bobby frankel in there too..after that I think it's a steep cliff to the next best (just considering 1970-2000) ..think shug and Bill mott are knocking at the door and both of them had a significant part of their career in that time period..todd and chad a little too young but they'll be in consideration when they call it quits..think the latter two are a level above the prior 2 (mott,shug)

on a separate note if I had to name the 5 (ok 7) trainers who stick out (to me) in ny in the above time period (70-00).. excluding shug,mott and the chief

no particular order

mike hushion
gasper moschera
rick schossberg
flint schulhoffer
woody
frank martin
your mentor
./[QUOTE]



Totally agree with Bobby Frankel. And those other names won a lot of races back then didn’t they?
The HOF seems to take a dim view of claiming trainers. That’s why it was so nice to see King Leatherbury get in. He did deserve it.

Mott and Shug, of course. Sooo good.

My mentor. He died young. And what he did with Kings Swan really took people by surprise. But honestly, if you knew his work, you just shrugged your shoulders and said, that sounds about right.

We saw it with Lexington Park. Claimed for 14,500 and beats Halo on the grass in the Oceanport and beats Preakness winner Bee Bee Bee at Pimlico.
He turned Double Edged Sword from a underachieving maiden into a monster who won the Westchester Mile in super fast time with Cordero.
Dicky crushed the claiming box for many years. But when he got the opportunity to train better horses, he shined there as well. Lite The Fuse. His first start was a non winners of two because Dicky knew the only way he losses is if a freak First timer happens to show up. He won.
And I could go on and on . What an honor it was to be his asst. trainer in 1975 .
So lucky To have been a part of all that including a part of his family when the boys were young. Man we had fun.

His sons. Tony is a really good trainer who has trained some very nice horses. We’ve talked about that. Rick did things that were incredible as well as winning the Derby and Preakness. And regardless of what “ people” say, he did NOT cheat. Sorry folks. Ricky was a taught machine. He did horses. That’s it. And there was never a place in his dads teachings that had anything to do with drugs and cheating. If ANYONE would know that it would be someone that was taught the exact same things at the exact same time. Illegal drugs, giving shots, needles in the barn , were never any part of that barn. But we’ve been through that before as well.

Chip trained on his own a little but worked for both brothers the majority of the time.
Rick is eligible to apply for his license real soon. I sure hope he gets to have his trainers license back. It’s all he has ever wanted his entire life.

Thanks as always.


All the best JBEX!

[JBEX]

[QUOTE=str;31125630][QUOTE=JBEX;31124836]think you have to throw bobby frankel in there too..after that I think it's a steep cliff to the next best (just considering 1970-2000) ..think shug and Bill mott are knocking at the door and both of them had a significant part of their career in that time period..todd and chad a little too young but they'll be in consideration when they call it quits..think the latter two are a level above the prior 2 (mott,shug)

on a separate note if I had to name the 5 (ok 7) trainers who stick out (to me) in ny in the above time period (70-00).. excluding shug,mott and the chief

no particular order

mike hushion
gasper moschera
rick schossberg
flint schulhoffer
woody
frank martin
your mentor
./

Totally agree with Bobby Frankel. And those other names won a lot of races back then didn’t they?
The HOF seems to take a dim view of claiming trainers. That’s why it was so nice to see King Leatherbury get in. He did deserve it.

Mott and Shug, of course. Sooo good.

My mentor. He died young. And what he did with Kings Swan really took people by surprise. But honestly, if you knew his work, you just shrugged your shoulders and said, that sounds about right.

We saw it with Lexington Park. Claimed for 14,500 and beats Halo on the grass in the Oceanport and beats Preakness winner Bee Bee Bee at Pimlico.
He turned Double Edged Sword from a underachieving maiden into a monster who won the Westchester Mile in super fast time with Cordero.
Dicky crushed the claiming box for many years. But when he got the opportunity to train better horses, he shined there as well. Lite The Fuse. His first start was a non winners of two because Dicky knew the only way he losses is if a freak First timer happens to show up. He won.
And I could go on and on . What an honor it was to be his asst. trainer in 1975 .
So lucky To have been a part of all that including a part of his family when the boys were young. Man we had fun.

His sons. Tony is a really good trainer who has trained some very nice horses. We’ve talked about that. Rick did things that were incredible as well as winning the Derby and Preakness. And regardless of what “ people” say, he did NOT cheat. Sorry folks. Ricky was a taught machine. He did horses. That’s it. And there was never a place in his dads teachings that had anything to do with drugs and cheating. If ANYONE would know that it would be someone that was taught the exact same things at the exact same time. Illegal drugs, giving shots, needles in the barn , were never any part of that barn. But we’ve been through that before as well.

Chip trained on his own a little but worked for both brothers the majority of the time.
Rick is eligible to apply for his license real soon. I sure hope he gets to have his trainers license back. It’s all he has ever wanted his entire life.

Thanks as always.


All the best JBEX!

thanks str

agree with you that claiming trainers should be considered more when it comes to HOF
nominations..they (you) are the backbone of this industry and probably make up (on avg) at least half the races run on any particular race card..simply not right

I will always remember king's swan as it was my early days playing the game..looked up and he ran from 1980-90 ..107 ..38-19-18 with $1.9M + in earnings..without looking at his record believe he could get it done at all distances..a remarkable horse


lite the fuse I also remember as a top sprinter..lexington park really an amazing feat..claimed for that price and win a stakes on the grass and beat a preakness winner on the dirt ..wow..halo wound up being an excellent sire in his own right and if i remember correctly could get runners on either surface..also the sire of one of the all time great sires and derby and preakness winner sunday silence

had to be great learning under rick sr. and based on what you said i find it hard to believe his son did the things he was accused of..a shame (an understatement) that he's had to miss this much time but as you said hopefully he's allowed back in soon

[JBEX]

not a lot of army mule activity this week although there is one running in the holy bull stakes (R12,saturday) at gulfstream..believe that's the first leg of their derby prep series

shadow dragon


$375k 2yo purchase who broke his maiden first out at aqueduct (sb msw)on 9/29 at 6f .. closed from 14 lengths out at the quarter pole to win by < 1 length..tried him in a sb stakes at a mile (1 turn) @ aqu about a month later and did nothing (6th by 15) with no apparent excuse

interesting bill mott will run him in a 2 turn open graded stakes off his last race.. he must think a lot of him to try that





.

[str]

not a lot of army mule activity this week although there is one running in the holy bull stakes (R12,saturday) at gulfstream..believe that's the first leg of their derby prep series

shadow dragon


$375k 2yo purchase who broke his maiden first out at aqueduct (sb msw)on 9/29 at 6f .. closed from 14 lengths out at the quarter pole to win by < 1 length..tried him in a sb stakes at a mile (1 turn) @ aqu about a month later and did nothing (6th by 15) with no apparent excuse

interesting bill mott will run him in a 2 turn open graded stakes off his last race.. he must think a lot of him to try that





.

He would not do that unless he felt the last race was a throw out for whatever reason.

Something happened . Just probably not visible from the grandstand.

I would look for an improved overall effort.

[JBEX]

He would not do that unless he felt the last race was a throw out for whatever reason.

Something happened . Just probably not visible from the grandstand.

I would look for an improved overall effort.

what makes it even more intriguing is the beyer for his debut came up extremely low
and mott has what will probably be the 2nd choice in the race ..found out both after i posted as I was initially just searching for a replay of the debut..tempers my enthusiasm a bit but what you said makes sense and he'll be big odds


thanks str

[JBEX]

what makes it even more intriguing is the beyer for his debut came up extremely low
and mott has what will probably be the 2nd choice in the race ..found out both after i posted as I was initially just searching for a replay of the debut..tempers my enthusiasm a bit but what you said makes sense and he'll be big odds


thanks str

just want to clarify that this is another horse
(#8 rocket can @ 7-2) but the probable odds spoke to that anyway


ml and posts are out

#3 shadow dragon (15-1)

[JBEX]

something about the pedigree
of shadow dragon

2nd dam was a 6 time graded stakes winner which usually attracts an elite dam sire and that is the case here..dam was an ok runner who's had a winner from 2 other (besides sd) runners and that one was nothing special

sure the horse looked good/worked fast or both and then you probably add the 2nd dam to get to his high price..Army Mule himself is an inexpensive sire so the price is a big multiple

how fast they've run still takes precedence and his debut win in spite of the big close was slow by speed figure standards

[str]

something about the pedigree
of shadow dragon

2nd dam was a 6 time graded stakes winner which usually attracts an elite dam sire and that is the case here..dam was an ok runner who's had a winner from 2 other (besides sd) runners and that one was nothing special

sure the horse looked good/worked fast or both and then you probably add the 2nd dam to get to his high price..Army Mule himself is an inexpensive sire so the price is a big multiple

how fast they've run still takes precedence and his debut win in spite of the big close was slow by speed figure standards

Agree. The indication is the figure for the winning race played true in the losing race. It will be interesting to see if today, SD runs a better figure than when he won. The others should carry that time to be a decent figure so it comes down to can this horse compete against this kind.
Should be interesting to monitor.

Thanks for the details JBEX.

[trytrytry]

holy bull today I very very very much like this #1 as a horse today and as we progress towards Triple crown.

[JBEX]

Agree. The indication is the figure for the winning race played true in the losing race. It will be interesting to see if today, SD runs a better figure than when he won. The others should carry that time to be a decent figure so it comes down to can this horse compete against this kind.
Should be interesting to monitor.

Thanks for the details JBEX.

np str

there's enough interesting elements to take a shot imo..normally a deep closing sprinter with a slow figure and a poor follow-up at a distance close to today's would be a turn off for me..but with the other things going on it's a little intriguing

[JBEX]

holy bull today I very very very much like this #1 as a horse today and as we progress towards Triple crown.

by curlin so 2 turns what he's meant to do ..benefitted from a really fast pace last out (brisnet figs) but could be one in here also if the ml fav #4 cyclone mischief chases #6 legacy isle..mott's other #8 looks talented too so tough call for me..just be rooting for shadow dragon..Mott would probably be happy with a 3rd from him today

[JBEX]

2 of them going in R5 @ laurel tomorrow ..
maiden claiming $30k

#2 major houlihan (7-2)
#6 elle victorina (20-1)



no pp's anymore .. watched replay of #2 mh last race and it was pretty decent 3rd on a sloppy sealed track ..3rd career start today ..debut msw lrl..2nd start aqu 40k mcl so drops another notch

[str]

np str

there's enough interesting elements to take a shot imo..normally a deep closing sprinter with a slow figure and a poor follow-up at a distance close to today's would be a turn off for me..but with the other things going on it's a little intriguing

I watched this race yesterday. A couple of observations. I assume the J. Ortiz had ridden this horse in his first two races? If so, for him to stay on yesterday after a poor showing in an allowance race would speak loud and clear that the horse had hidden talent. Again, I assume he rode him. This time of year, a premier rider won't stay with a 30-1 shot for no reason. Jockey's are also trying to find talent on the Triple crown trail.

As for the horse himself, he is just starting to figure this out. He stayed on his left lead through the stretch much longer than he will down the road. Also, with the very short stretch yesterday with the " first" wire he was at a sizeable disadvantage. Not because it was just a short stretch but because he does not know how to run yet. Would he have won? Not sure. But it would have been closer than it was for sure IMO.

I cannot begin to express how crazy in all the good ways a sire that stood for 10K or less in his first year, has thrown so many gutsy, hard knocking and most of all, talented horses in such a short time. It's pretty incredible JBEX.

Hope you played him at 30-1. He was well worth it. And we kind of knew that before the race if for no other reason, the trainers placing him in there after such a poor effort. And If Jose Ortiz stayed on him from that same poor race, that would be icing on the cake.

Great job of reading between the lines JBEX. That's what the games all about.

[str]

holy bull today I very very very much like this #1 as a horse today and as we progress towards Triple crown.

I watched him warming up as they showed him quite a bit prior to the race. The rider kept him moving and was still jogging him up until the last minute. We see that often with an older horse as they are maybe a bit muscle sore behind and are trying to get them as loose as possible for the race. We also see it if the rider wants to be sure and show some speed and not get trapped inside on a short run to the 1st turn with an inside post like it was yesterday.
For him to jog all the way until post time and break and lay next to last and never fire was very odd. I do not know a thing about his form and did not watch Irad ride him as I was busy watching his brother riding but something just does not add up right with how he warmed up and how he performed. I said to myself as they were loading, "I guess the 1 horse will be on or with the lead early". Obviously that never happened.

Maybe we will hear something next week if something shows up. It will be interesting to see if Irad rides him again in these prep races. If so, you might want to give him a long look next out. If not, that could be a signal as well.

GL Try.

All the best.

[JBEX]

I watched this race yesterday. A couple of observations. I assume the J. Ortiz had ridden this horse in his first two races? If so, for him to stay on yesterday after a poor showing in an allowance race would speak loud and clear that the horse had hidden talent. Again, I assume he rode him. This time of year, a premier rider won't stay with a 30-1 shot for no reason. Jockey's are also trying to find talent on the Triple crown trail.

As for the horse himself, he is just starting to figure this out. He stayed on his left lead through the stretch much longer than he will down the road. Also, with the very short stretch yesterday with the " first" wire he was at a sizeable disadvantage. Not because it was just a short stretch but because he does not know how to run yet. Would he have won? Not sure. But it would have been closer than it was for sure IMO.

I cannot begin to express how crazy in all the good ways a sire that stood for 10K or less in his first year, has thrown so many gutsy, hard knocking and most of all, talented horses in such a short time. It's pretty incredible JBEX.

Hope you played him at 30-1. He was well worth it. And we kind of knew that before the race if for no other reason, the trainers placing him in there after such a poor effort. And If Jose Ortiz stayed on him from that same poor race, that would be icing on the cake.

Great job of reading between the lines JBEX. That's what the games all about.

thanks str

junior alvarado rode him in his first (and only)2 races at aqueduct and he rode the winner (the other mott) in his first 2 races at saratoga ..then johnny v and luis saez (that order) rode the other mott at churchill downs in his next 2 starts (4 race career) ..a win and half length loss respectively ..my guess is junior alvarado is not riding at churchill and he's definitely one of mott's main guys in ny and probably gulfstream also

the 2nd race for shadow dragon was a statebred stakes which these days and probably for last 15-20 years can be tough races ..30-40 years ago ny breds were a joke but then came the breeding and purse incentives and that changed



i thought i saw him on his left lead and they even mentioned it in the recap in the chart..saw he really picked it up after switching and as you said the short stretch and lack of experience probably cost him..mott seemed happy with both (and why not) in the post race interview which they show on the you-tube recap of the day's races


the sire really is unbelievable for a freshmen and at $12.5k this year probably offers a lot value..the 2yo's this year will be for his 2nd year fee of $7.5k and before breeders could see what he did this year..if he has at least a decent year (with 2yo) i think next years 2yo group have the potential to be really good


i rarely play and over the long haul probably not a bad thing lol .. i didn't but i still love the process ..forum makes it more enjoyable from that perspective. no regrets

[JBEX]

hey str

an army mule won a listed stakes at oaklawn yesterday..5 career starts with 3 wins and 2 2nds including 3 straight wins

#2 klassy bridgette (5-2)

https://youtu.be/CuWSYl5wl2o

trainer interview after

[JBEX]

amazing I wasn't watching tvg all day and I turn it on and it's the middle of a race kingsbarns is in at tampa bay..it was a n1x or n2l @ 1 mile ⁴⁰ yds which of course is a condition he's eligible for..won easy by 5 or 6 lengths and paid $3.00..29 days since his maiden breaking debut and have to think they might be shooting for the tampa bay derby on 3/11

[JBEX]

amazing I wasn't watching tvg all day and I turn it on and it's the middle of a race kingsbarns is in at tampa bay..it was a n1x or n2l @ 1 mile ⁴⁰ yds which of course is a condition he's eligible for..won easy by 5 or 6 lengths and paid $3.00..29 days since his maiden breaking debut and have to think they might be shooting for the tampa bay derby on 3/11

7¾ lengths

[JBEX]

derby future pool 4 final odds

shadow dragon @ 46-1 **
(some respect)

kingsbarns @ 35-1


** wasn't endorsing him as a play but since we talked so much about him figured I'd give his odds

[str]

hey str

an army mule won a listed stakes at oaklawn yesterday..5 career starts with 3 wins and 2 2nds including 3 straight wins

#2 klassy bridgette (5-2)

https://youtu.be/CuWSYl5wl2o

trainer interview after

These Army Mules just keep on coming. This one was capable of sitting and being inside. Always a plus to have that.

They just continue to impress.


Thanks for the link JBEX !

[JBEX]

These Army Mules just keep on coming. This one was capable of sitting and being inside. Always a plus to have that.

They just continue to impress.


Thanks for the link JBEX !

no problem str

might still be able to affect the quality of the broodmares he gets this year with the timing of these races i would think ..definitely has some nice 3yo's

[JBEX]

derby future pool 4 final odds

shadow dragon @ 46-1 **
(some respect)

kingsbarns @ 35-1


** wasn't endorsing him as a play but since we talked so much about him figured I'd give his odds

if you wanted to see it kingsbarns race is shown on tampa bay downs you tube channel as an individual race (2:32 might help you find it)

[str]

amazing I wasn't watching tvg all day and I turn it on and it's the middle of a race kingsbarns is in at tampa bay..it was a n1x or n2l @ 1 mile ⁴⁰ yds which of course is a condition he's eligible for..won easy by 5 or 6 lengths and paid $3.00..29 days since his maiden breaking debut and have to think they might be shooting for the tampa bay derby on 3/11

That’s crazy !

I wonder if it’s a calling or a sign. Lol.

Pretty cool that happened.

[str]

amazing I wasn't watching tvg all day and I turn it on and it's the middle of a race kingsbarns is in at tampa bay..it was a n1x or n2l @ 1 mile ⁴⁰ yds which of course is a condition he's eligible for..won easy by 5 or 6 lengths and paid $3.00..29 days since his maiden breaking debut and have to think they might be shooting for the tampa bay derby on 3/11

Smart, strong, stood in the gate like a champ, broke great, relaxes and switches leads like a pro. So far so good.

All that could go away if he gets mentally flustered running against better horses but if he handles the next step, he is for real.

Nice job JBEX.

[JBEX]

That’s crazy !

I wonder if it’s a calling or a sign. Lol.

Pretty cool that happened.

was really amazed..they were in the middle of the backstretch and heard his name and said must be something close and heard it wrong..nope..maybe is good karma

looked at the field afterwards and think 1-2 was an overlay..really bad..should be fresh for his next start

[JBEX]

Smart, strong, stood in the gate like a champ, broke great, relaxes and switches leads like a pro. So far so good.

All that could go away if he gets mentally flustered running against better horses but if he handles the next step, he is for real.

Nice job JBEX.

thanks str

good signs..tampa derby will be much tougher an understatement


if they go that route..no pun intended

[JBEX]

next step is tough any way they go..maybe they keep him at tampa ..calmer environment and he's familiar with the track
..probably not though as todd wouldn't be hands on with him (if that's the dynamics of him staying there)..out of my area of knowledge and possibly a guess even for you..maybe not even that important ..I've heard trainers like to run there..surface and environment I guess

[JBEX]

getting diarrhea of the brain here lol but will take a crack at it factoring timing..now's the time to have a little fun with this stuff

if they go tampa derby (3/11) and he performs well (understand that's not a cinch) then it'll be the wood or bluegrass next (both on 4/8)..always feel arkansas derby the toughest of them and not a track in Todd's circle..of the two prior I think the latter as I believe the wood has not been a good producer for derby runners and easier to be in kentucky the previous race

[str]

was really amazed..they were in the middle of the backstretch and heard his name and said must be something close and heard it wrong..nope..maybe is good karma

looked at the field afterwards and think 1-2 was an overlay..really bad..should be fresh for his next start

In a situation like that, my entire focus is on the horse. I don’t even see the field.

if he loses, I will see that but no way I am looking for it.

It’s more about watching every aspect of what the horse is doing and more importantly how he is doing it.

Leads are very important but it’s his body language, demeanor and athleticism that I am looking for.

He checked every box for me. And while it was just one race, at least the potential is alive and well.

So far, so good.

[JBEX]

In a situation like that, my entire focus is on the horse. I don’t even see the field.

if he loses, I will see that but no way I am looking for it.

It’s more about watching every aspect of what the horse is doing and more importantly how he is doing it.

Leads are very important but it’s his body language, demeanor and athleticism that I am looking for.

He checked every box for me. And while it was just one race, at least the potential is alive and well.




So far, so good.

sounds good str..thanks