Who is manipulating NCAA Basketball totals?

[RonPaul2008]

Ever since the early season basketball tournaments ended I have noticed a pattern of NCAA Basketball totals being manipulated. Lines are moved in one direction and then later moved a lot in the other direction. Is this pinnacle and/or bookmaker orchestrating this or is it a syndicate?

[davidchong]

Ever since the early season basketball tournaments ended I have noticed a pattern of NCAA Basketball totals being manipulated. Lines are moved in one direction and then later moved a lot in the other direction. Is this pinnacle and/or bookmaker orchestrating this or is it a syndicate?

Nop, is from another book in america.

[RonPaul2008]

Just happened again on Maryland/Boston College Game. 144 to 146 to 145 to 146 to 144 all in a short period of time. F*ck these assholes!

[TheMoneyShot]

Probably some hot shots that are laying heavy money one way... and they quickly move the line and get money on the other direction. Fading steam. Then the line goes back to normal. I think this happens a lot in NCAA Basketball

[RichardGeorge]

All it takes is one max bet at BetOnline to move the line 1 point.

Its not rocket science and its not some big syndicate... A 250 dollar bet moves the line. They are just being cautious.

[RonPaul2008]

All it takes is one max bet at BetOnline to move the line 1 point.

Its not rocket science and its not some big syndicate... A 250 dollar bet moves the line. They are just being cautious.

I'm not talking about the games that only BOL and 5Dimes carry. I'm talking about the ones that Pinnacle, Bookmaker, and others also have. The moves at BOL on these CBB totals are just a reflection of the lines at Pinnacle and Bookmaker.

[LVHerbie]

Not new as this has been going on for at least a couple years... Adapt or you will get left behind...

[easyliving]

All it takes is one max bet at BetOnline to move the line 1 point.

Its not rocket science and its not some big syndicate... A 250 dollar bet moves the line. They are just being cautious.

this, in the NBA for example on 5dimes all it takes is 1 max bet to move the line 1/2 point. I always notice lines move 1/2 point after I place a max wager on a total. Once the lines reset 5-10 minutes later the line will usually move back to what it was originally unless they keep getting action 1 way

[ronald]

Not new as this has been going on for at least a couple years... Adapt or you will get left behind...

Herbie is right. Has been happening at Pinnacle for at least 3-4 years.

[RichardGeorge]

I'm not talking about the games that only BOL and 5Dimes carry. I'm talking about the ones that Pinnacle, Bookmaker, and others also have. The moves at BOL on these CBB totals are just a reflection of the lines at Pinnacle and Bookmaker.

Wow... No.

The days of Pinnacle being the leader for CBB is LONG gone. The limits are horrible.. Believe it or not, 5D and BOL are probably the leaders now in CBB. Even Bookmaker is kind of slow these days.

BOL are actually the first ones to post totals now.

i.e.

BetOnline opened Maryland/BC total at 11:12am
Bookmaker opened it at 11:20am
5Dimes opened it at 11:21am
Pinnacle opened it at 11:22am
Heritage opened it at 11:25am

BetOnline moved 5 times before Pinnacle moved a 2nd time.
They all moved from 144 to 145 at 12:05, with Bookmaker moving at 12:06 and Heritage moving at 12:09.

Many times.. these books wait for BOL to release the total.. see which way it gets killed the first 10 minutes, and the rest of the books open after this.

[rolltideroll0]

Now what are some good strategies to take advantage of this? Fade or follow suit?

[RonPaul2008]

Yes, they open first at BOL at low limits and may move there first. But later the big moves are not there first.
In fact, on the games that only BOL and 5Dimes have, mostly 5Dimes moves and BOL follows.

Wow... No.

The days of Pinnacle being the leader for CBB is LONG gone. The limits are horrible.. Believe it or not, 5D and BOL are probably the leaders now in CBB. Even Bookmaker is kind of slow these days.

BOL are actually the first ones to post totals now.

i.e.

BetOnline opened Maryland/BC total at 11:12am
Bookmaker opened it at 11:20am
5Dimes opened it at 11:21am
Pinnacle opened it at 11:22am
Heritage opened it at 11:25am

BetOnline moved 5 times before Pinnacle moved a 2nd time.
They all moved from 144 to 145 at 12:05, with Bookmaker moving at 12:06 and Heritage moving at 12:09.

Many times.. these books wait for BOL to release the total.. see which way it gets killed the first 10 minutes, and the rest of the books open after this.

[Miz]

I am not quick enough with the mouse / too busy at work to hit the BOL lines when they first open. I always get the worst of it by 2pts or so because I get there 5-10 minutes late. They usually keep moving after I place my bets though. I bet using my own model, so I pay no attention to steam. Line follows my projection nearly every time though. I agree that sometimes on the bigger games that other books also post lines for that there is some manipulation going on. No doubt about it.

[RichardGeorge]

Yes, they open first at BOL at low limits and may move there first. But later the big moves are not there first.
In fact, on the games that only BOL and 5Dimes have, mostly 5Dimes moves and BOL follows.

And the point is... I'm not betting thousands and I move lines with a max bet at either site, as everyone does. Its not necessarily sharp money at all.

[Bluehorseshoe]

And the point is... I'm not betting thousands and I move lines with a max bet at either site, as everyone does. Its not necessarily sharp money at all.

It is if they're "Pumping and dumping".

[RonPaul2008]

It only seems to happen when there are not too many games. It has not happened today so far.

[RonPaul2008]

You are totally wrong. Pinnacle may not be the leader on the openers in CBB, but they are still the leaders among the major books for line movement later on.

Wow... No.

The days of Pinnacle being the leader for CBB is LONG gone. The limits are horrible.. Believe it or not, 5D and BOL are probably the leaders now in CBB. Even Bookmaker is kind of slow these days.

BOL are actually the first ones to post totals now.

i.e.

BetOnline opened Maryland/BC total at 11:12am
Bookmaker opened it at 11:20am
5Dimes opened it at 11:21am
Pinnacle opened it at 11:22am
Heritage opened it at 11:25am

BetOnline moved 5 times before Pinnacle moved a 2nd time.
They all moved from 144 to 145 at 12:05, with Bookmaker moving at 12:06 and Heritage moving at 12:09.

Many times.. these books wait for BOL to release the total.. see which way it gets killed the first 10 minutes, and the rest of the books open after this.

[LVHerbie]

You are totally wrong. Pinnacle may not be the leader on the openers in CBB, but they are still the leaders among the major books for line movement later on.

Agreed... It has been awhile since I did a bunch of board watching but while BOL does open first as soon as the big boys open up BOL quickly follows mostly on air...

[RichardGeorge]

You are totally wrong. Pinnacle may not be the leader on the openers in CBB, but they are still the leaders among the major books for line movement later on.

I'm not sharp at all.... When I bet max on a total at 5Dimes, it moves 1 point on average.. sometimes more. Line movements on CBB totals mean absolutely nothing.

[RichardGeorge]

LOL @ you guys thinking its some sharp manipulating totals on something that most books have 250 max...I win more then I lose in totals, but like I said im not sharp and I can easily manipulate a line.

[RonPaul2008]

LOL @ you guys thinking its some sharp manipulating totals on something that most books have 250 max...I win more then I lose in totals, but like I said im not sharp and I can easily manipulate a line.

Bookmaker generally has 1k max on the totals, sometimes 2k. BOL, after it's been out for a while also has 1k max. 5Dimes limits sharps heavily...so their limits don't really mean much.

[rolltideroll0]

LOL @ you guys thinking its some sharp manipulating totals on something that most books have 250 max...I win more then I lose in totals, but like I said im not sharp and I can easily manipulate a line.

If you actually follow college basketball...then u know there has been some extremely sketchy line movements the past month...especially when compared to NBA totals. It should also be noted ... that college basketball is the US sport most exposed to corruption..... (too many threats: refs, players, coaches.....everyone loves money).

[HUY]

I'm not sharp at all.... When I bet max on a total at 5Dimes, it moves 1 point on average.. sometimes more. Line movements on CBB totals mean absolutely nothing.

How exactly does it mean nothing? There was a max bet and the line moved to reflect that. That's how lines move. What else were you expecting?

[tto827]

BOL last year routinely opened totals at 2-3 points off where everyone else did. By offering $250 limits on these early numbers, they can get away with it.

Just cause there first don't mean they are the ones doing the work.

[RonPaul2008]

Just happened on the pepperdine/washington state total.

Shit pisses me off!

[RichardGeorge]

How exactly does it mean nothing? There was a max bet and the line moved to reflect that. That's how lines move. What else were you expecting?

You totally misunderstood the whole point of the thread.

My point isn't that there is some huge syndicate moving lines everyday. All it is is a few max bets by different people...

[RonPaul2008]

I'm just about ready to boycott cbb totals when there is not at least 25 games on the board.

[RichardGeorge]

If you actually follow college basketball...then u know there has been some extremely sketchy line movements the past month...especially when compared to NBA totals. It should also be noted ... that college basketball is the US sport most exposed to corruption..... (too many threats: refs, players, coaches.....everyone loves money).

And if you've actually followed college basketball totals for more then a year, you would realize that totals in cbb move less this year then they have I probably the last 10 years.

It's a volatile market that is very easy to beat. 4-5 years ago, lines moved 10+ points DAILY. 20 point moves were not rare at all...

Nowadays, most lines move around 5 points.. Not much at all anymore in cbb compared to what used to happen. And as for comparing it to nba totals, that's an obvious point: cbb has 300 lined teams.. Nba has 30.. Which do you think is easier for the oddsmakers to get a grip on? Moron.

Finally..,. While there is lots of corruption in cbb, almost every case has been point shaving.. It would take a whole team or referee
To shave a total.. And what's the point? The most u can make is like 5k tops between all outfits on a total in cbb. On a point spread, you could get probably close to 6 figures.

If you don't have a clue what your talking about, don't reply.

[RichardGeorge]

Bookmaker generally has 1k max on the totals, sometimes 2k. BOL, after it's been out for a while also has 1k max. 5Dimes limits sharps heavily...so their limits don't really mean much.

Where the hell are you getting these limits?

I'd be very lucky to get more then 250 on any total in cbb on any book... Wish I had your limits. I make a 250 max bet at 5dimes,.. They don't let me bet more and they change the line. Does this make me a syndicate? Lol

[RonPaul2008]

Where the hell are you getting these limits?

I'd be very lucky to get more then 250 on any total in cbb on any book... Wish I had your limits. I make a 250 max bet at 5dimes,.. They don't let me bet more and they change the line. Does this make me a syndicate? Lol

5Dimes is a pussy book. They delay and limit anyone with a clue.

[RichardGeorge]

5Dimes is a pussy book. They delay and limit anyone with a clue.

I can only get down 250 tops at betonline also.

Bookmaker sometimes 500... Usually 250

[raydog]

Wow... No.

The days of Pinnacle being the leader for CBB is LONG gone. The limits are horrible.. Believe it or not, 5D and BOL are probably the leaders now in CBB. Even Bookmaker is kind of slow these days.

BOL are actually the first ones to post totals now.

i.e.

BetOnline opened Maryland/BC total at 11:12am
Bookmaker opened it at 11:20am
5Dimes opened it at 11:21am
Pinnacle opened it at 11:22am
Heritage opened it at 11:25am

BetOnline moved 5 times before Pinnacle moved a 2nd time.
They all moved from 144 to 145 at 12:05, with Bookmaker moving at 12:06 and Heritage moving at 12:09.

Many times.. these books wait for BOL to release the total.. see which way it gets killed the first 10 minutes, and the rest of the books open after this.

lolz, bol is a leader of nothing...their moves are insignificant to the rest of the main books in industry... when bm and pinny move, most others play follow the leader... bol has always put up early lines that are quickly adjusted as soon as cris openers come out... there are only a handful of places that follow their own money and dont worry 24/7 about what pinny is doing

that being said, i like that bol does their own thing before cris/pinny openers and they usually do their own thing after lines are adjusted... now, if we could just get them to pay in a timely manner..

[rolltideroll0]

Dude u got it backwards.... it takes a whole team with referee help to win or lose a game against the spread. One key player (on either side) can personally keep a point score under for a half. Less money, sure. But not very complicated and any rogue player or ref can pull this off undetected.

[raydog]

it should be known, even though Edward (RAS) only puts out sides, he has a couple of the best Totals modelers working for him...guys that, in previous years, are moving lines with their totals bets... obviously, they are still doing the same and the fact they are in RAS group only gets lines moving faster

[HUY]

I don't think it's too difficult to manipulate results. Remember the NBA ref who manipulated totals simply by calling more fouls on both teams (this raises the expected total). Because he treated both teams the same this didn't generate much reaction. Sure, he didn't win 100% of his bets but you only need to win 53% to break even.