[Mr Handicapable]

Don't understand this line at ND +8.5?? Obviously the Spartans have had their number over the years but I was expecting maybe 4.5-6 pts at most? MSU doesn't look particularly good on defense or in their passing game.....granted you can throw out last Saturdays results in the driving rain! Their offensive focal point RB Javon Ringer looks like a 4th round NFL pick at best to me....not a special talent that can beat you by himself! Phil Steele/Northcoast Sports has the Irish as the most improved team in NCAA? I don't get that at all but +290 ML for the Irish is a great value here imo? Thoughts are appreciated!
GL

[teaserpleaser]

Michigan State has the potential at home to beat the Irish by double digits... Flat out the Spartans can score. I think thats why the line is that way and the Irish had some gifts last week ie turnovers from Michigan and the oddsmakers know that. (phil steele isnt always on point about his improved teams look at his write up in his college football preview on Vanderbilt! I went to vanderbilts football website and read the roster bios and you could tell they were going to be better this year. I ask you this, do the Irish look like the most improved team in NCAA? I dont think so and from what i've seen through week 3 Vanderbilt would roll all over Notre dame and their back 2 back top 25 recruiting classes.)

[Red Man Spit]

Doing some box score numbers crunching, I came up with 69 total plays from scrimmage for the Spartans last week. Of those 69 plays, 54 were on the ground, and 43 of those were to Ringer. I can't see Hoyer beating the Irish through the air. Can Notre Dame stop Ringer? No. Can they load up the front to SLOW Ringer? I think they can and will, and that's why I'll take the 8' points.

[teaserpleaser]

Doing some box score numbers crunching, I came up with 69 total plays from scrimmage for the Spartans last week. Of those 69 plays, 54 were on the ground, and 43 of those were to Ringer. I can't see Hoyer beating the Irish through the air. Can Notre Dame stop Ringer? No. Can they load up the front to SLOW Ringer? I think they can and will, and that's why I'll take the 8' points.

Bryan Hoyer is a returning starting sr. who threw for 2,725 yards last year why couldnt he beat the irish through the air? Michigan QB's arent nearly as good as Hoyer and they threw 229 yards last week against the irish.

[$$POOLCRAZY$$$$]

looks like a trap!! Mich St. will win by 21

[Red Man Spit]

A small play for me, but a play just the same. Go Irish.

[teaserpleaser]

Doing some box score numbers crunching, I came up with 69 total plays from scrimmage for the Spartans last week. Of those 69 plays, 54 were on the ground, and 43 of those were to Ringer. I can't see Hoyer beating the Irish through the air. Can Notre Dame stop Ringer? No. Can they load up the front to SLOW Ringer? I think they can and will, and that's why I'll take the 8' points.

Im thinking you know something I dont here could you answer my question about how Michigan's green qb's can throw for 229 yards and they arent very good but a returning starting QB that threw for over 2,700 yards wont be able to pass on the Irish.

[Red Man Spit]

Im thinking you know something I dont here could you answer my question about how Michigan's green qb's can throw for 229 yards and they arent very good but a returning starting QB that threw for over 2,700 yards wont be able to pass on the Irish.

Brian Hoyer's numbers are much lower this season. In 2007, he completed 59.3 % of his passes, threw for 2725 yds, 20 TD's, 11 INT's. In his first 3 games this year, he has a 44% completion pct., 1 TD, 2 INT's and 557 total yds. Eastern Michigan and Fla Atlantic don't have A-1 secondaries in my book....so you tell me who the workhorse is? It is Javon Ringer. That is MSU's gameplan, pure and simple. Brian Hoyer WILL NOT beat the Irish. Ringer can. That's why I feel if you slow down Ringer, you slow down the Spartan offense.

[Mr Handicapable]

Doing some box score numbers crunching, I came up with 69 total plays from scrimmage for the Spartans last week. Of those 69 plays, 54 were on the ground, and 43 of those were to Ringer.

This was in a driving rain! Easiest Under ever and I just missed it....17-0 final...total was 61! Hoyer is decent but I know they lost that giant TE(name escapes me..he's on the Bears)! I haven't researched their WRs yet? My point is that Ringer is not a special RB imo and the Spartans haven't been particularly good on defense in the last several years! The Irish could be 3X better than last year as far as most improved but they could still suck! They were that bad last year! I've just done this long enough to be able to guess within a point or two of the line in my head before it comes out and 8.5 was way off? Didn't ND beat them in Lansing in 2006? Need more research but I think the Irish are the play here!

[teaserpleaser]

If Hoyer has to pass on the Irish he can and will he threw for 321 on Cal (there secondary is pretty good )San diego st. QB a freshman threw for 274 on that irish secondary 229 for michigan qbs. we'll see what happens Hoyer may not have to throw If michigans fr. RB Sam mcguffie can run for 131 and 5.2 yards a carry... Ringers is going to have a field day if they stuff the box Hoyer will have a field day. GL

[Red Man Spit]

If Hoyer has to pass on the Irish he can and will he threw for 321 on Cal (there secondary is pretty good )San diego st. QB a freshman threw for 274 on that irish secondary 229 for michigan qbs. we'll see what happens Hoyer may not have to throw If michigans fr. RB Sam mcguffie can run for 131 and 5.2 yards a carry... Ringers is going to have a field day if they stuff the box Hoyer will have a field day. GL

Those are good points. GL to you as well.

[teaserpleaser]

that was the game that michigan st. had a 16 point lead and blew it in the 4 th qtr... Michigan state's coach decided to pass and try and extend the lead and it blew up on them Notre dame scored 19 unanswered points in the 4th qtr.

[MartinBlank]

The focus on this discussion seems to be ND's defense against MSU's offense.

I don't think you can look at Michigan's passing numbers without having watched the ND-Michigan game. Let me break it down for you. Michigan threw for 219 yards on 19-28 passing.

A closer look though, sees that Michigan completed 7 screen passes for 104 yards, including McGuffie's 40 yard touchdown.

Take the screen passes away and Michigan's numbers become 12 of 21 for 115 yards. Now....Michigan had two big plays...one to Babb to for 38, and one to Matthews for 27. That is an additional 65 yards on big plays.

Threet played an exceptional game for Michigan.

Something else to consider for those of you who have not seen ND's games this year.

San Diego State and Michigan used a no-huddle offense the entire game forcing ND into their weakest personnel groupings, taking Ian Williams off the field and forcing ND into a game long nickel package. Michigan State won't do that, in fact, the way they play will actually favor ND. Jon Tenuta has changed ND's defense, they are good between the tackles, and they bring relentless pressure. Of Michigan's 50 offensive plays, ND brought pressure on 38 of them. Comparisons to last year's ND defense don't hold much water because of that fact alone.

More, ND has an edge a safety. The Bruton kid who caused a Michigan fumble, and had a pick against Michigan is best when he is inside the box, and again, that is a matchup that Michigan State will show them.

I urge you guys to get some video on this, you can watch all of ND's games on nbcsports.com, and you can see what I am talking about with respect to ND's defense.

[sweetpete57@]

I think this is the hardest game to pick this week. ND underachieved in Week 1 but it's hard to gauge their performance in Week 2 because Michigan was so awful. Mich. St. played OK vs. what appeared to be a superior Cal team, but who knows if Cal's any good after their loss to Maryland! I'm not touching this game. If someone were to put a gun to my head and forced me to pick this game, I'd just tell him to pull the trigger.

[McRich]

Doing some box score numbers crunching, I came up with 69 total plays from scrimmage for the Spartans last week. Of those 69 plays, 54 were on the ground, and 43 of those were to Ringer.

This was in a driving rain! Easiest Under ever and I just missed it....17-0 final...total was 61! Hoyer is decent but I know they lost that giant TE(name escapes me..he's on the Bears)! I haven't researched their WRs yet? My point is that Ringer is not a special RB imo and the Spartans haven't been particularly good on defense in the last several years! The Irish could be 3X better than last year as far as most improved but they could still suck! They were that bad last year! I've just done this long enough to be able to guess within a point or two of the line in my head before it comes out and 8.5 was way off? Didn't ND beat them in Lansing in 2006? Need more research but I think the Irish are the play here!

I live in Spartan country and I follow them closely. I bet the under last week because the rain was one of the worst downpours we have ever had in this area. I wish I had the guts to bet larger than I did.

MSU has two very talented young receivers. Cunningham and Dell. I think these two guys are excellent WR's that have saved Hoyer a few times already this year.

I will be betting the Spartans.

[MartinBlank]

It comes down to value, value, value.

Things to consider. Even though ND sucked balls last year, guess which team they had the most success running the ball against outside of Duke?

You guessed it Michigan State. ND ran for 117 yards last year on MSU, and in the three game prior to MSU they rushed for -14 TOTAL. Additionally, Clausen didn't start for ND in last year's MSU game. He did play, but he didn't start.

ND did what teams are supposed to do last week...they took advantage of Michigan turnovers. I just don't see Michigan State having anywhere near the depth and talent Michigan has on defense.

Close game here, Michigan State by a late FG.

[Mr Handicapable]

Hoyer has a grand total of 1 TD pass this year and they haven't exactly faced murderers row either (E. Michigan, Fla. Atlantic). Phil Steele has the Irish as one of the most improved teams in the nation? (jury is out on that one ). He also has MSU by a field goal! I took the Irish +9 & +290 ML...riding that 7 game winning streak for the visitor in this series! Nice thing about a streak...you can win many times in a row but you can only lose once!