[lasker]

Are we all talking about the same fighters? In looking at Silva's last few fights, it would seem even more likely he wins. If Demian Maia can't get him down (the same Maia that took Sonnen down right away) there is no way George is going to.

[Poppa Catfish]

It makes perfect sense

Maia can't take Silva down: Silva has great wrestling (or counter wrestling, whatever). Maia takes Sonnen down one time out of once, great sample size, and thus has superior wrestling. Sonnen takes down Silva and proves that he has the greatest wrestling of all. Which leads us right back to the time where Maia was able to take Sonnen down, proving that he has the greaterest wrestling, except he wasn't able to take down Silva....

And there we have it, the circle is complete!

[Vaughany]

It makes perfect sense

Maia can't take Silva down: Silva has great wrestling (or counter wrestling, whatever). Maia takes Sonnen down one time out of once, great sample size, and thus has superior wrestling. Sonnen takes down Silva and proves that he has the greatest wrestling of all. Which leads us right back to the time where Maia was able to take Sonnen down, proving that he has the greaterest wrestling, except he wasn't able to take down Silva....

And there we have it, the circle is complete!

haha reminds me of the Doerksen, Dolloway, Lawler triangle of MMAmath! Lawler choked out Dolloway, then Doerksen choked out Lawler, then somehow Dolloway choked out Doerksen...even though Doerksen choked out Lawler who had choked out Dolloway! So who's the best/biggest choker?!

[Buddy Huggs]

I was the first to admit mmath is generally bad, if you delve further than name and reputation maybe you would understand my point. The best grappler in MW (maia) took down the best wrestler easily, couldnt work it on andy due to his striking. That was my point that you basically went around without answering. Maybe bringing up Chael is an answer, but you don't believe in giving andy credit for the rib injury, so what do I say about that?

Maybe we're just way too far apart, considering I think Maia would tool GSP in a fight. Sorry size/reach matters too much to me.

The reason I brought up Serra is because GSP keeps bringing up Serra. The guy is still bothered by it, not saying he shouldnt be mad at the mistake he made, just that ever since he has been afraid to get hit. He used a little striking on Alves later in the fight (IMO to zig when Alves thought he'd zag, i.e. kick you when you think TD, TD when you wanna box) but other than him and Kos GSP has basically treated the WW title like a grappling tournament. As the great Dekkard Cain would say, 'this does not bode well, my friend.'

I've had my fair share of involvement in sports, I realize nobody is ever 100%. What I also realize is there is a big difference between pain and injury. There an interesting story I read about Joe Rogan bumping into Andy at the Hotel after the Lutter fight. Said Silva was hobbling around because his knees were still so bruised and swollen from the surgery and subsequent fight. Yeah I think the 'MJ of BJJ' thing is funny too, but it doesn't take away from my arguement that exactly ONE guy has gotten past Andy's guard in what, 13 UFC fights? I agree Lutter blew it in that fight, well I think thats what you are saying (conditioning/weight cut). Doesn't take away from what silva did.

And you didn't respond to my accusation that GSP had been ducking this fight up until Andy threatened to drop to WW to challenge him. I believe it was in one of the countdown videos, where andy said two weeks before the fight hes at 185, and could cut to WW if he wanted. correct me if im wrong here.

BTW I appreciate that everyone on this board is pretty courteous. makes it a lot easier to have a discussion.

[Poppa Catfish]

I was the first to admit mmath is generally bad, if you delve further than name and reputation maybe you would understand my point. The best grappler in MW (maia) took down the best wrestler easily, couldnt work it on andy due to his striking. That was my point that you basically went around without answering. Maybe bringing up Chael is an answer, but you don't believe in giving andy credit for the rib injury, so what do I say about that?

Maybe we're just way too far apart, considering I think Maia would tool GSP in a fight. Sorry size/reach matters too much to me.

The reason I brought up Serra is because GSP keeps bringing up Serra. The guy is still bothered by it, not saying he shouldnt be mad at the mistake he made, just that ever since he has been afraid to get hit. He used a little striking on Alves later in the fight (IMO to zig when Alves thought he'd zag, i.e. kick you when you think TD, TD when you wanna box) but other than him and Kos GSP has basically treated the WW title like a grappling tournament. As the great Dekkard Cain would say, 'this does not bode well, my friend.'

I've had my fair share of involvement in sports, I realize nobody is ever 100%. What I also realize is there is a big difference between pain and injury. There an interesting story I read about Joe Rogan bumping into Andy at the Hotel after the Lutter fight. Said Silva was hobbling around because his knees were still so bruised and swollen from the surgery and subsequent fight. Yeah I think the 'MJ of BJJ' thing is funny too, but it doesn't take away from my arguement that exactly ONE guy has gotten past Andy's guard in what, 13 UFC fights? I agree Lutter blew it in that fight, well I think thats what you are saying (conditioning/weight cut). Doesn't take away from what silva did.

And you didn't respond to my accusation that GSP had been ducking this fight up until Andy threatened to drop to WW to challenge him. I believe it was in one of the countdown videos, where andy said two weeks before the fight hes at 185, and could cut to WW if he wanted. correct me if im wrong here.

BTW I appreciate that everyone on this board is pretty courteous. makes it a lot easier to have a discussion.

A whole lot to respond to, but first and foremost a Deckard Cain reference

Yes, yes we are miles apart and that is why I'm not investing too much into this discussion because we can't even seem to agree on common ground, seems like this is headed on a train to nowhere.

My theory about GSP, and its just a theory since we don't really know these guys we only get a glimpse so its really dangerous to cast somebody as cowardly, is that the guy is a perfectionist. I mean bordering on OCD. Wearing the same suit, perfectly groomed, running through his perfectly scripted talking points. Everything he does outside of the cage is measured and robotic, and everything he does inside the cage seems to fit that as well.

I think it bugs the ever loving shit out of him that he made that mistake against Serra, just like it seemed to really affect him after the Hardy fight. He seemed distraught over his poor form on that armbar, and that was after a win! So yes maybe he is afraid, but it isn't of getting hit or fighting in general, its a fear of making the same mistake again. I think that is clearly a positive.

Same theory applies to him moving up in middleweight, he wants everything to be perfect.

I think you would agree that 13 is a tad bit bloated number though, for example from what my brother told me James Irvin doesn't exactly fine tune his BJJ skills. Though I doubt you would need an insider to tell you that. Shame BJJ guys Maia and Leites don't work on their take down skills would have liked to see how Silva's guard stood up to them, but instead we are left to weigh this matter largely based on the efforts of Sonnen and Henderson. I don't think either really puts up a great challenge, and would go so far as to say Chael works in reverse.

[urge2kill]

GSP isn't ducking anybody. He's said if he goes up to MW he's not going back down to WW and needs to put on weight to do it. He can't really put on much more and still have a good cut to 170. Is it his fault they've kept giving him fights at WW?

[Buddy Huggs]

Holy Cow I think I agree with pretty much all of that.

The GSP being OCD as shit thing is not new, and I acknowledge it. Likewise with his harsh self assessments. I also agree with your sentiments regarding the state of Brazilian wrestling.

If somebody put a gun to my head and asked me for my honest prediction of GSP at middleweight, I would say he will likely mirror BJ Penn's run at WW. Anybody with less skill than Penn will likely lose to him regardless of size, but when he fought Georges size was the essential neutralizer. I'm looking at the USA TODAY/SB Nation consensus MW rankings right now. Here's who I think GSP can beat with their ranking

Nate Marquardt - 4 - likely wouldn't fight his teammate
don't know enough about #7 Jorge Santiago
#8,9, being Bisping, Jacare

10 is Hendo but he said no more 185

Here's who I have beating GSP -
#1,2,3, Andy, Chael and Yushin
#5 Demian Maia - although I admit GSP might just jab him out
#6 Vitor Belfort - Lay N Pray or end up like Lindland? it would break my heart to see GSP starched like that

hahahaha now I just need to find a Diablo Avatar. Preferably Ilzan, the Ill One, comin hard reppin the sandy streets of Lut Gholein, rockin Spear showin NO FEAR...... Pick it up Kiefy

[Poppa Catfish]

Vitor

I know he had a title shot and all, but that is over, we can stop pretending. He was awfully good in the late 90's, but at the moment getting a middleweight title shot involves having a pulse and fighting one or two fights at the current weight and or at a catch weight slightly close to the actual weight.

BJ fought Machida at a much higher weight class and wasn't stopped, maybe you aren't giving GSP the credit he deserves. I don't see many fighters outside of Fitch beating Penn at welter, I don't think it is a weight/ reach issue, I think its GSP just being strictly better issue.

[Poppa Catfish]

Plus I got to add, because I'm a punk, how did BJ do against the 145'r with the name that starts with an E? Naturally I expect that he used his weight and reach advantage to dominate.


Regards,
The Wanderer

[jin2daj]

lol at the MMAth. maia's takedowns are garbage.

GSP CAN DEFINATELY takedown silva.

but can he survive the 1 or 2 punches on his way in?

[Poppa Catfish]

lol at the MMAth. maia's takedowns are garbage.

GSP CAN DEFINATELY takedown silva.

but can he survive the 1 or 2 punches on his way in?

MMAth is no good here, damn I was working on this little gem,

GSP submitted Matt Hughes
who submitted Almeida
who submitted Nate
who submitted Todd Carney
who submitted Jason Miller
who submitted sakuraba
who submitted Minowa

who submitted
Daiju Takase

who we all know as the 9-13 fighter that submitted Spider

Silva had better watch out for GSP triangle choke, that is what my research tells me

[urge2kill]

haha that's some pretty good MMAth.

[omalley21]

GSP will definitely get takedowns and he will be very "slippery" for this fight, I dont see him getting submitted. Im really excited for this fight.

[FindTheLock]

I don't think this fight will come close to living up to expectations. Silva should win easily. He is too big and too long with too much striking ability. He can also work wonders from his back. He might get a crazy sub with his reach and length, if he doesn't get the KO first on the take down attempt.

[Poppa Catfish]

Over half the forum thinks fights should end after they measure height and reach, why even go through the motions with the actual fights?

What a bunch of size queens, imo