1. #1
    Vaughany
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    Brian Stann +160...

    First of I must concede that I'm a big fan of Stann and this has recently been re-enforced by his autobiography which is an amazing read. With this in mind, I try to avoid betting on fighters that I'm a big fan of as it has stung me in the past. For instance I bet on Mir to beat Lesnar in the rematch more because Im a massive Mir fan and because I just wanted him to seal the deal on Lesner rather than objectively analysing the fight and realising that Mir has trouble with big guys and that Lesnar had improved a lot since their first fight. Needless to say, I'm going against this rule with the upcoming Leben vs Stann fight!

    The Stann vs Cantwell series underpins a lot of my thought process behind backing Stann in this fight. Granted, their last fight was over a year ago and Stann has fought 3 times since their rubber match, however none of the fighters who Stann has faced since have been purely stand-up bangers like Leben is. So it's better to use the Cantwell fights as an indicator of what could happen as he is the closing thing to a striker that can be used to compare with Leben IMO rather than the likes of Wallace, Massenzio and Davis. Firstly, I'm working on the feeling that Cantwell is actually a better fighter than Leben. I feel Cantwell is a more technical version of Leben with better leg kicks and BJJ yet at same time similar power due to him being a LHW. Stann managed to finish Cantwell in their first fight, but granted Cantwell was very young and green and probably suffered from first fight jitters. In the rematch Cantwell got revenge and finished Stann after Stann had a great opportunity to finish Cantwell at the end of the second round. In Stann's book there is a great chapter near the beginning were he discusses his emotional and mental issues prior to the rematch and how he went in the cage with an 'already beaten' attitude. The rubber match is the key indicator of what Stann is capable of and why I feel he can beat Leben. Stann showed that he has decent footwork and head movement and can be elusive and not get drawn in to a brawl...***This is going to be key in the Leben fight***... as I think it's pretty clear that Stann's best chance of winning this fight is to stick and move and outpoint Leben in a similar way to what he did against Cantwell in their rubber match and what Bisping did against Leben. Obviously, their is a chance that Stann gets drawn in to a slug-match with Leben, which I think Leben would come out on top in. However, Stann is not stupid and with Team Jackson behind him it is unlikely that he will adopt such a risky strategy. Stann's camp and preparation is another key aspect, and in contrast with with Leben coming off a DUI there is no telling what condition (both physically and mentally) the Crippler will be in, whilst you can be 99% certain that Stann is going to be coming in the best shape (or at least close to) he's ever been in. Stann's BJJ has improved greatly since working solidly with Roberto Traven, his striking and wrestling improving greatly due to working with Team Jackson, sparring with the likes of Jon Jones is only going to sharpen Stann's skills. I actually wouldnt be surprised to see Stann try and mix in a couple of takedowns if he does get to close to Leben which could be possible seeing as he should be the bigger fighter of the two now that he is fighting at middleweight rather than LHW where he was slightly undersized.

    I feel that '5dimes' and 'Sportbet' actually got it closer to being right by having Leben at -140 and Stann at Evens when the line was first released. I actually think Leben's only chance of winning this by TKO/KO and that this shouldnt warrant him being a big favourite against a guy that Stann who should have superior footwork, head movement, cardio and good enough wrestling and BJJ to prevent Leben being a threat on the ground if it went there.

    Anyway, for now I have 1 unit on Stann at +160 and will be looking to add more on Stann by decision when the prop is available. Im sure some will disagree with my thoughts on this fight and would love to here some analysis and constructive-criticism before I do actually add any more units to a Stann related play!
    Last edited by Vaughany; 12-05-10 at 07:23 AM.

  2. #2
    Poppa Catfish
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    Leben really is developing his over all game, got to give him credit on that.

    I don't have a good read on Stann tbh, I don't think he has a very high strength of schedule. I also don't think he has reached his full potential, so basically I'm saying I'm useless in this thread

    Best of luck with this. I for one will be looking at this a little bit harder since I see it has your stamp of approval

  3. #3
    lasker
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    Great writeup Vaugh, you and I think alike because I just locked in Stann +145 yesterday (wish I could have gotten +160) and included him in some parlays that were busted thanks to Nam Phan's "loss."

  4. #4
    Vaughany
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    Quote Originally Posted by lasker View Post
    Great writeup Vaugh, you and I think alike because I just locked in Stann +145 yesterday (wish I could have gotten +160) and included him in some parlays that were busted thanks to Nam Phan's "loss."
    Good to know you're backing him Lask!

  5. #5
    rocky mattioli
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    i tend to lean more toward poppa`s p.o.v. here(maybe that`s a good thing for stann bettors given last weekend`s debacle for me).....

    leben seems to be on a serious roll...he`s dangerous for 3 rounds...his stamina has been pretty much excellent of late...and his submission game seems better than stann`s...

    looks like a different guy of late......

    stann seems too one dimensional...i haven`t seen much of a ground game from him.....the wrestling and bjj that v alludes to(yeah,i`m aware of massenzio..i think the guy has chronic leg issues...he`s fallemn off the radar).....and i question whether he can hurt leben....

    the "stick and move" part makes sense to me.....a stann via decision prop would be worth a tickle,imo...

    but this new leben worries me...i mentioned on another board that physically,leben looks different of late...more muscular...much stronger...

    i wonder if somethings going on there?...not accusing...just pondering....

    not playing leben...just not real confident in stann...i`ll wait to see where the odds go...leben is a much more high profile guy...might get some seriously long odds on stann closer to post time..
    Last edited by rocky mattioli; 12-06-10 at 08:37 AM.

  6. #6
    Vaughany
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    Well he did test positive after the Bisping fight didn't he, maybe he's just worked out how to cycle it better now!

    With regard to Stann's wrestling and BJJ, I agree Leben is going to have the advantage there, plus Leben has a big experience advantage. He showed that he has takedowns when he beat Jay Silva by decision. However, I doubt Leben will go in to this fight with the intention of taking Stann down, plus if Stann does use the stick and move strategy (which I'm counting on him doing) then it will be difficult for Leben to take Stann down even if he wanted to regardless of whether he has better wrestling or not. Regarding Leben's cardio, Im still not sure whether he has got good cardio or whether it's more that he just had better cardio than Simpson and Akiyama. Simpson was winning that first round but exerted too much energy going for the takedown and was gassed by the second round, and Akiyama arguably won both the 2 rounds against Leben before he gassed and got sloppy in Leben's guard and was choked out. I dont foresee Stann having these cardio issues that Simpson and Sexyama experienced.

  7. #7
    illmatick
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    nice write-up Vaughany, I'm waiting for the Stann by decision prop myself.

    this is like the 5th time I've seen you mention his autobiography, can it really be that damn good?

  8. #8
    Vaughany
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    Quote Originally Posted by illmatick View Post
    nice write-up Vaughany, I'm waiting for the Stann by decision prop myself.

    this is like the 5th time I've seen you mention his autobiography, can it really be that damn good?
    Cheers bro, good to see your on it as well

    ha yeah it's some pretty inspirational shit, beats Liddel's, Hughes', Tito's, Randy's books hands down! He's gone through some crazy stuff in his life, some of his stories about the things he witnessed and what he went through in Iraq are mental, and he also had to deal with a sexual assault charge which almost ruined his military career and made him contemplate suicide. There's some good insight in to Team Jackson as well and stories about his brutal sparring sessions with Villasenor, Jardine and Forest Griffin. Defo recommend it!

  9. #9
    snake11eyes
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    Yea nice write up Vaughany. You and I have been on Stann since they announced this match-up. I remember when I first heard about this I couldn't wait to get my money on Stann. Now after doing a little research and watching some of their previous fights again that Leben is one tough sob. I still think Stann will be able to stay away from Leben and win a decision, but this is going to be closer than I originally thought. I'm going to hold out for the Leben backers and try for +180.

  10. #10
    Vaughany
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    Quote Originally Posted by snake11eyes View Post
    Yea nice write up Vaughany. You and I have been on Stann since they announced this match-up. I remember when I first heard about this I couldn't wait to get my money on Stann. Now after doing a little research and watching some of their previous fights again that Leben is one tough sob. I still think Stann will be able to stay away from Leben and win a decision, but this is going to be closer than I originally thought. I'm going to hold out for the Leben backers and try for +180.
    Cheers dude, yeah u had him against Massezio as well didnt u? I wouldnt be surprised to see it rise back up to +160 to +180 range by fight time. Im just hoping to get Stann by decision at +300 or better

  11. #11
    snake11eyes
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaughany View Post
    Cheers dude, yeah u had him against Massezio as well didnt u? I wouldnt be surprised to see it rise back up to +160 to +180 range by fight time. Im just hoping to get Stann by decision at +300 or better
    Yea I liked him against Massenzio as well. I dont't think we'll get Stann by decision higher than +300 givin Lebens granite chin, but if we do I'll be all over it.

  12. #12
    RaiderNation MMA
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    ur a frank mir fan!?! how can i ever take u seriously again. loll jk jk

    i think he has a good shot, but i dunno if id bet on it

  13. #13
    The HOFF
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    I think a Stann by DEC/Leben ITD or KO stradle would work great for this fight.

  14. #14
    Vaughany
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    Quote Originally Posted by The HOFF View Post
    I think a Stann by DEC/Leben ITD or KO stradle would work great for this fight.
    Ye I will most probably hedge my Stann plays with Leben 'KO of the Night' or something.

  15. #15
    Bankable
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    I think more money will come in Leben. Stann has been winning but Leben is a little better everywhere and definitely better at slugging which is what Stann likes to do.

  16. #16
    Vaughany
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bankable View Post
    I think more money will come in Leben. Stann has been winning but Leben is a little better everywhere and definitely better at slugging which is what Stann likes to do.
    Stann hasnt slugged since the second Cantwell fight which was years ago. This is the misconception that is gonna help drive Stann's line up!

  17. #17
    Vaughany
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    UNITED WE STANN!

  18. #18
    brooks85
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    nice call vaughny


    dam stann said he weighed 205 in the cage tonight, he said with full energy but cant really tell yet. But, adding 20 pounds is impressive.

  19. #19
    lasker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaughany View Post
    UNITED WE STANN!
    Great call

  20. #20
    snake11eyes
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaughany View Post
    UNITED WE STANN!
    Nice job Vaughany. I thought this was one of the easier fights to predict on this card.

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