[THE_LOCKSMITH]

Spike TV, 9 p.m. ET
Stephan Bonnar vs. Tito Ortiz
Will Brooks vs. Michael Chandler (for lightweight title)
Muhammed Lawal vs. Joe Vedepo
Melvin Manhoef vs. Joe Schilling
Nam Phan vs. Mike Richman

Spike.com, 7 p.m. ET
Kyle Bolt vs. A.J. Matthews
Ron Henderson vs. Jonathan Santa Maria
Jordan Bailey vs. Alex Higley
Nick Garcia vs. Matthew Ramirez
Andy Murad vs. Bubba Pugh
Rolando Perez vs. Mark Vorgeas
Ian Butler vs. Joao Faria

[JIBBBY]

Bonnar, Brooks, King Mo, Manhoef and Richman for me...

My 5 buck special... Not a big payout this time around.. lol..

11/12/14 11:45pm	$5.00	$65.98	Pending	5 Team Parlay
				Pending	11/15/14 11:00pm Bellator Fighting 3002 Stephan Bonnar +125* vs Tito Ortiz
				Pending	11/15/14 10:30pm Bellator Fighting 3101 Will Brooks +175* vs Michael Chandler
				Pending	11/15/14 10:00pm Bellator Fighting 3202 Muhammed Lawal -900* vs Joe Vedepo
				Pending	11/15/14 9:30pm Bellator Fighting 3302 Melvin Manhoef -165* vs Joe Schilling
				Pending	11/15/14 9:00pm Bellator Fighting 3402 Mike Richman -350* vs Nam Phan

[Ron_Paul_2012]

Bonnar, Brooks, King Mo, Manhoef and Richman for me...

Looking good except your Bonnar play Jibs.

[Ron_Paul_2012]

Spike TV, 9 p.m. ET
Stephan Bonnar vs. Tito Ortiz
Will Brooks vs. Michael Chandler (for lightweight title)
Muhammed Lawal vs. Joe Vedepo
Melvin Manhoef vs. Joe Schilling
Nam Phan vs. Mike Richman

Spike.com, 7 p.m. ET
Kyle Bolt vs. A.J. Matthews
Ron Henderson vs. Jonathan Santa Maria
Jordan Bailey vs. Alex Higley
Nick Garcia vs. Matthew Ramirez
Andy Murad vs. Bubba Pugh
Rolando Perez vs. Mark Vorgeas
Ian Butler vs. Joao Faria

I can't wait for this card!!!!!!!!!

[JIBBBY]

Yep Ron, I may be watching this Bellator card live over the UFC if the times conflict with the top 3 fights on both cards.. I won't miss the Mark Hunt fight though..
This is gonna be an action packed Saturday night for sure!!!


As far as the Bonnar/Ortis fight goes -

I don't think Tito can out strike or out grapple Bonnar.. Tito hasn't looked good with his take down attempts in years. He gasses and slows down in a hurry.. I expect the fight to stay standing and if Bonnar is remotely the same fighter that he use to be I think he can beat Tito up standing round to round. Out cardio him as well.. As the dog I gotta play Step Bonnar..

[JIBBBY]

Combat Press breakdown - http://combatpress.com/2014/11/bella...d-predictions/

Bleacher report with vids - http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2...-131-main-card

[JIBBBY]

Bad blood and harsh words are flying now with Bonnar and Ortis.. Los Angeles Times reports.. This might just be a good fight after all..http://www.latimes.com/sports/sports...112-story.html


My common logic breakdown -

Stephan Bonnar is only 37 years old and remember he was winning fights in the UFC until he got creamed by Anderson Silva in his last scrap http://www.sherdog.com/fighter/Stephan-Bonnar-3014

Tito age 39 now.. Besides the undersized Russian who has he beat in recent years?? Nobody.. http://www.sherdog.com/fighter/Tito-Ortiz-158

Just pointing out the facts. I believe Bonnar is a live dog play in this one fellas.

[Rubber Guard]

Not sure how to cap Tito.

I had schlemenk via Tito being awful and throwing the fight possibly anyway. Had MD telling me Schlmenk was thr next Fedor and cash cow for Bellator. Firmed my opinion up more.

Then Tito runs through the 185er and Tito is now back on the p4p lists.

Flip a coin. Id say Bonnar but I cant cap roid withdrawls and outside masked man possibly coming to someones side. Too many variables like a wwe throw down.

[Sacrelicious]

Then Tito runs through the 185er and Tito is now back on the p4p lists.

Which p4p list is Tito on?

[mirinquads]

Which p4p list is Tito on?

P4p worst actor
P4p biggest head
P4p smallest hog
P4p most henious ex wife

Which lists isn't he on?

I have Tito by the gimp man turn coating and bashing Boner in the head with a steel chair, for the record.

[Jim_Gunn]

I think Tito can win this using his wrestling by grinding out Stephan Bonnar to a decision. I bet him straight and I also like the over 2½.

[Vaughany]

Md will be all in on Will Brooks

[Vaughany]

P4p worst actor
P4p biggest head
P4p smallest hog
P4p most henious ex wife

Which lists isn't he on?

I have Tito by the gimp man turn coating and bashing Boner in the head with a steel chair, for the record.

Lol im expecting Coker to come running out and hit Bonnar on back of head with thr aluminium chair saving Tito. Kinda like when vince macmahon came out and hit The Rock so tht Stonecold could win!

[Vaughany]

Bad blood and harsh words are flying now with Bonnar and Ortis.. Los Angeles Times reports.. This might just be a good fight after all..http://www.latimes.com/sports/sports...112-story.html


My common logic breakdown -

Stephan Bonnar is only 37 years old and remember he was winning fights in the UFC until he got creamed by Anderson Silva in his last scrap http://www.sherdog.com/fighter/Stephan-Bonnar-3014

Tito age 39 now.. Besides the undersized Russian who has he beat in recent years?? Nobody.. http://www.sherdog.com/fighter/Tito-Ortiz-158

Just pointing out the facts. I believe Bonnar is a live dog play in this one fellas.

So Bonnar is "only 37 implying tht he isnt old, but Ortiz who is only two years older is past it?!

[Beelzebubzy]

So Bonnar is "only 37 implying tht he isnt old, but Ortiz who is only two years older is past it?!

I thought the same thing. You beat me to the punch.

One could make the argument that Tito has been "training" and that Stephan has taken a year off.

[Vaughany]

I imagine Bonnar getting thai-clinch after some grinding against cage and landing a couple knees to tito's fragile stomach and dropping him

[MD]

I imagine Bonnar

I imagine boner.

[Vaughany]

Will Brook's boner at tht

[MD]

Will Brook's boner at tht

Who's Will Brook?

[JIBBBY]

So Bonnar is "only 37 implying tht he isnt old, but Ortiz who is only two years older is past it?!

I do actually think it makes a difference.. Maybe not a huge difference but a difference.. Every 2 years around that 40 year mark is big for most MMA fighters in those middle weight classes. Anderson Silva is a good example of that.. Chuck Liddell and Rich Franklin to mention a few others..

Don't laugh to hard as my logic is sound and backed by physical facts....

[MD]

I do actually think it makes a difference.. Maybe not a huge difference but a difference.. Every 2 years around that 40 year mark is big for most MMA fighters in those middle weight classes. Anderson Silva is a good example of that.. Chuck Liddell and Rich Franklin to mention a few others..

Don't laugh to hard as my logic is sound and backed by physical facts....

"Lots of fighters decline around X age, so if a fighter is past X age, they're declining" is not sound logic. Fighters do not all decline linearly, and you are using examples of fighters who declined in that particular age range to support the idea that it's the number of years that matters in a fight in which we have abundant information about both competitors, which is patently untrue.

[JIBBBY]

"Lots of fighters decline around X age, so if a fighter is past X age, they're declining" is not sound logic. Fighters do not all decline linearly, and you are using examples of fighters who declined in that particular age range to support the idea that it's the number of years that matters in a fight in which we have abundant information about both competitors, which is patently untrue.

Well MD, I named 3 former UFC champions that had a big fall off from age 37 to then age 40... Tito can be mentioned in that same category.. Sure though as everyone has a different biologic time clock but those ages seem to really make a difference in the fighting world in those weight classes..

Tito Oriz turns 40 in January, 2 months away..

It's really a 2 1/2 year difference to be more clear. I think Bonner has a slight edge with that being considered and I'm sure many other aging athletes would agree with me.. Especially if both are not using PED's...

[Vaughany]

Who's Will Brook?

Good question

[MD]

Well MD, I named 3 former UFC champions that had a big fall off from age 37 to then age 40... Tito can be mentioned in that same category.. Sure though as everyone has a different biologic time clock but those ages seem to really make a difference in the fighting world in those weight classes..

Tito Oriz turns 40 in January, 2 months away..

It's really a 2 1/2 year difference to be more clear. I think Bonner has a slight edge with that being considered and I'm sure many other aging athletes would agree with me.. Especially if both are not using PED's...

I already made that joke a few posts up.

[marzwoody]

Bernard hopkins 49. still going 12 twelve rounds with russian killers. your age theory can suck it.

[areallycoolguy]

^ one outlier doesnt mean shit bro

[Sacrelicious]

^ one outlier doesn't mean shit, bro.

[MD]

^ one outlier doesnt mean shit bro

There's context to this discussion. He's not suggesting that age doesn't cause a decline in performance, that was never in question. The question, which JIBBBY still doesn't (and seemingly will never) understand, is whether or not age is a reliable measure of where an individual fighter is in their career in a sport in which we have so much performance data for that fighter.

[areallycoolguy]

There's context to this discussion. He's not suggesting that age doesn't cause a decline in performance, that was never in question. The question, which JIBBBY still doesn't (and seemingly will never) understand, is whether or not age is a reliable measure of where an individual fighter is in their career in a sport in which we have so much performance data for that fighter.

age is definitely a factor either way you cut it, but physical condition and other things are separate from it, yeah? bernard hopkins is a major outlier. he makes age seem like not such a big deal because he takes a rare amount of care in protecting his body and has for a long time. also i'd imagine he has some pretty sturdy genes. he's far from being remotely like most people or fighters. on the other hand, obviously age doesnt speak entirely for a fighters condition or other things... but its not like its entirely relative as long as you're talking about guys like... 21-40 lets say

jibbby's a bit ignorant on this, sure, but he is on most things. i think everyone has good points. age is a really interesting thing

[mirinquads]

Boxing training is also very very different from MMA training. I think Bernard Hopkins is at the state that he can do mostly technique and cardio training and very little hard sparring / other damage inflicting training. You can't really do that with MMA, as grappling and especially wrestling will always be hard on the body. You basically won't find any wrestlers with an intact body after a long career, Randy Couture maybe being the abnormality, but he started his MMA career late.

[mmaed]

Bonnar wins both the age and mileage war. I wish this were a five round fight because that would heavily favor bonnar in my opinion. Given that the fight is only three rounds i find it somewhat difficult to call. I do favor bonnar slightly though, making his odds attractive.

[ufcmma36]

I think Tito could beat Mark Coleman! an Coleman's old ass whipped bonnar all night long!!!!!!

[JIBBBY]

Ok, I'm ignorant, wrong, Tito is a young stallion and not slowing down at 40... What ever....

Until you guys have reached age 40 yourselves some of you guys should put a lid on it seriously.. Mark Hunt, Hendo and Randy C all have slow paced or elite wrestling based fighting styles that complement an aging fighter.. If Tito can't get this fight to the ground he will become a punching bag standing after a round that is if Bonner is the same Bonner we've seen in past fights..

Stephan Bonner is my biggest straight play of the night.. Let it be known....

[MD]

Ok, I'm ignorant, wrong, Tito is a young stallion and not slowing down at 40... What ever....

Until you guys have reached age 40 yourselves some of you guys should put a lid on it seriously.. Mark Hunt, Hendo and Randy C all have slow paced or elite wrestling based fighting styles that complement an aging fighter.. If Tito can't get this fight to the ground he will become a punching bag standing after a round that is if Bonner is the same Bonner we've seen in past fights..

Stephan Bonner is my biggest straight play of the night.. Let it be known....

No one is saying that fighters don't slow down with age, I'm saying that the age of an individual fighter is not relevant in this sport in the way that it is to demographics, because we have so much performance data with which to judge how much an individual has declined. Do you see?

[FightFightFight]

Mark. Coleman.