1. #36
    whipton
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaughany View Post
    ha so you wouldnt make a straight-up play on him at -600 but would put him in a parlay?
    wheres the value in playing something that chalky straight up ?

  2. #37
    Beelzebubzy
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    Quote Originally Posted by whipton View Post
    wheres the value in playing something that chalky straight up ?
    If you think an apple it's worth 2 dollars and the supermarket is selling it for 1.50, wouldn't you buy it?
    Points Awarded:

    Educ8d Degener8 gave Beelzebubzy 2 SBR Point(s) for this post.


  3. #38
    Vaughany
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    Quote Originally Posted by whipton View Post
    wheres the value in playing something that chalky straight up ?
    where's the value in putting something that chalky in a parlay?

  4. #39
    MD
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    Quote Originally Posted by whipton View Post
    wheres the value in playing something that chalky straight up ?
    So you think there's value in a parlay, but not straight up?

  5. #40
    PunisherIND
    myles jewry
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaughany View Post
    ha well you can still listen to Rothwell Jnr's Kamikaze Overdrive while you at the gym!
    LMAO rothwell jr HAHA

  6. #41
    PunisherIND
    myles jewry
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tommy Blingshyne View Post
    well you dont think noons can win a dec. based on the initial bet and you stated it would be a rather unlikely fluke (maybe 10% more chance then a dec.) for him to win by TKO/KO so what youre really betting on is cerrone by dec., sub or tko/ko and i guess noons by sub right? think its a fair enough assumption that noons isnt subbing cerrone and u already have the str8 up cerrone bet...why not look for cerrone ITD then at a much better price then -530 right? cause based on the convo, it seems like thats really what youre betting on...even 2 single bets on cerrone by sub or cerrone by tko/ko would be more lucrative then not noons by dec...idk just throwing ideas out there...
    tommy, maybe I didn't explain it great, but I actually give noons 0% chance of sub. i'd say 10% itd, either in the form of a flash ko, or fluke injury. 10% chance he wins a decision. put it this way, I like cerrone SU most of all. by playing the -530, i'm still getting cerrone SU for all intents and purposes, and I get a little more coverage in case of a flash ko/fluke injury.

  7. #42
    PunisherIND
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    Quote Originally Posted by MD View Post
    So you think there's value in a parlay, but not straight up?
    here we go again, lol. every fockin week we go thru this shit. don't even waste you're time.

  8. #43
    MD
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    Quote Originally Posted by PunisherIND View Post
    here we go again, lol. every fockin week we go thru this shit. don't even waste you're time.
    Nah bro, let's hear him out. There's a lot about parlays that we still don't know, scientists aren't sure exactly how they work. Who knows what kind of wonders and mysteries they hold?

  9. #44
    whipton
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    im not going to debate betting styles.. BOL brotha

  10. #45
    MD
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    Quote Originally Posted by whipton View Post
    im not going to debate betting styles.. BOL brotha
    I don't blame you. All of those value parlays must have really drained your magical energy. I'm sure you're running on empty by now.

    Such is the price we pay for creating value out of thin air.

  11. #46
    Vaughany
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    lol The value when betting straight-up moneyline is ok, but the value when putting in a parlay is average

  12. #47
    Vaughany
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    Quote Originally Posted by PunisherIND View Post
    here we go again, lol. every fockin week we go thru this shit. don't even waste you're time.
    haaahahaha

  13. #48
    Sacrelicious
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    Quote Originally Posted by whipton View Post
    Date: May 25, 2013
    Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
    Venue: MGM Grand Garden Arena
    Broadcast: Pay-per-view, FX, Facebook


    MAIN CARD (Pay-per-view, 10 p.m. ET)
    ==============================
    Cain Velasquez vs. Antonio Silva - for heavyweight title
    Junior dos Santos vs. Mark Hunt
    James Te Huna vs. Glover Teixeira
    T.J. Grant vs. Gray Maynard
    Donald Cerrone vs. KJ Noons


    PRELIMINARY CARD (FX, 8 p.m. ET)
    ============================
    Mike Pyle vs. Rick Story
    Dennis Bermudez vs. Max Holloway
    Colton Smith vs. Robert Whittaker
    Khabib Nurmagomedov vs. Abel Trujillo


    PRELIMINARY CARD (Facebook, 6:35 p.m. ET)
    ===================================
    Nah-Shon Burrell vs. Stephen Thompson
    Brian Bowles vs. George Roop
    Estevan Payan vs. Jeremy Stephens


    @whipthecapper


    Brian Bowles
    ============
    Striker/grappler
    aggressive
    ok striker
    ok punching tech.
    heavy handed
    throws various punching combos
    weak kicker
    rarely kicks
    > avg striker in the clinch
    < avg head movement
    > avg footwork
    ok clinch td
    ok shoot td
    prefers to shoot for td
    > avg clinch tdd
    weak shoot sl or dl tdd
    > avg top control
    > avg jits
    avg guard passing ability
    > avg gnp
    < avg guard
    avg chin
    > avg cardio


    George Roop
    ============
    Striker/grappler
    aggressive
    ok striker
    ok punching tech.
    throws various punch/kick combos/ 1-2 or 1-2 kick mostly
    ok kicker
    > avg leg kicks
    throws kicks to the legs/body/head
    > avg striker in the clinch
    < avg head movement
    ok footwork
    weak clinch td
    avg shoot td
    prefers to shoot for a DL against the cage
    avg clinch tdd
    weak shoot sl or dl tdd
    > avg top control
    < avg jits
    weak guard passing ability
    ok gnp/good elbows
    avg guard/ active w/ strikes
    < avg chin
    ok cardio


    Brian via KO or Dec


    Confidemce meter: 6/10




    What the Odds should be
    =======================
    Brian Bowles -175
    George Roop +140




    Stephen Thompson
    ==================
    switches stance
    striker
    aggressive
    decent striker
    > avg punching tech.
    throws various punch/kick combos
    good kicker
    ok leg kicks
    throws kicks to the leg/body/head
    throws a variety of kicks
    avg striker in the clinch
    < avg head movement
    > avg footwork
    weak clinch td
    weak shoot td
    rarely attempts td
    weak clinch trip tdd
    weak shoot SL or DL tdd
    weak top control
    weak jits
    weak guard passing ability
    weak top control
    weak gnp
    weak guard
    < avg chin
    < avg cardio




    Nah-shon Burrell
    ================
    Striker/grappler
    aggressive
    decent striker
    heavy handed
    decent punching tech.
    throws various punching combos
    avg kicker
    > avg leg kicks
    throws kicks to the legs/body/head
    > avg striker in the clinch
    > avg head movement
    > avg footwork
    ok clinch td/trip
    > avg shoot td
    prefers SL td against the cage
    weak clinch tdd
    weak shoot sl or dl tdd
    > avg top control
    weak jits
    weak guard passing ability
    ok gnp
    < avg guard
    < avg chin
    > avg cardio


    nah-shon burrell via dec


    Confidence Meter: 5/10


    what the odds should be
    ========================


    Stephen Thompson +110
    Nah-shon Burrell -130




    Robert Whittaker (lacked footy)
    ================================
    Striker
    aggressive
    decent striker
    contact striker
    ok punching tech.
    throws various punch/kick combos
    good kicker
    decent leg kicks
    throws kicks to the legs/body/head
    avg striker in the clinch
    avg head movement
    avg footwork
    weak clinch td
    weak shoot td
    doesn't attempt tds
    weak clinch tdd
    weak shoot sl or dl tdd
    top control ???
    < avg jits
    guard passing ability
    > avg gnp
    avg guard
    > avg chin
    ok cardio




    Colton Smith
    =============
    Grappler/striker
    aggressive grappler/tentative counter strike
    avg striker
    contact striker
    avg punching tech.
    throws a 1-2 at most
    avg kicker
    > avg leg kicks
    throws kicks to the legs/body
    avg striker in the clinch/ looks for td
    < avg head movement
    > avg footwork
    good clinch td
    > avg shoot td
    prefers DUH td in the clinch
    < avg clinch tdd
    < avg shoot sl or dl tdd
    decent top control
    ok jits
    > avg guard passing ability
    ok gnp
    avg guard
    < avg chin
    > avg cardio


    colton smith via sub 3rd rd


    Confidence Meter: 5/10


    What the odds should be
    =========================
    Robert Whittaker+155
    Colton Smith -180




    Abel Trujillo
    ==============
    Striker/Grappler
    aggressive
    > avg striker
    > avg punching tech.
    throws various punching combos
    weak kicker
    weak leg kicks
    never kicks
    < avg striker in clinch
    ok head movement
    ok footwork
    decent clinch td
    rarely shoots for td
    prefers SL/DL td against the cage
    avg clinch tdd
    > avg shoot sl or dl tdd
    ok top control
    > avg jits
    avg guard passing ability
    decent gnp
    < avg guard
    > avg chin
    decent cardio


    Khabib Nurmagomedov
    ====================
    aggressive grappler/counter striker
    ok striker
    < avg punching tech.
    throws various punching combos
    avg kicker
    ok leg kicks
    throws kicks to the legs/body/head
    avg striker in the clinch
    > avg head movement
    ok footwork
    good DUH clinch td/trip
    decent shoot SL td
    prefers to shoot for SL td
    > avg clinch tdd
    > avg shoot sl or dl tdd
    ok top control
    good jits
    good guard passing ability
    good gnp
    > avg active guard
    ok chin
    ok cardio


    Khabib Nurmagomedov via sub rd 1 or dec


    Confidence meter:5.5/10


    What the odds should be
    =======================
    Khabib Nurmagomedov -300
    Abel Trujillo +255




    Dennis Bermudez
    ===============
    Striker/grappler
    aggressive
    ok striker
    ok punching tech.
    heavy handed
    throws a 1-2 or 1-1-2 combos
    < avg kicker
    avg leg kicks
    throws kicks to the legs/body/head
    ok striker in the clinch
    > avg head movement
    ok footwork
    decent clinch td
    decent shoot SL td
    prefers DL against the cage
    avg clinch tdd
    > avg shoot sl or dl tdd
    ok top control
    > avg jits
    > avg guard passing ability
    ok gnp
    < avg guard
    < avg chin
    ok cardio


    Max Holloway
    =============
    Striker/grappler
    aggressive
    good striker
    decent punching tech.
    thorws various punch/kick combos
    decent kicker
    ok leg kicks
    throws kicks to the legs/body/head
    good striker in the clinch/ good body puncher
    ok head movement
    ok footwork
    avg clinch td/trip
    never shoots for td
    prefers trips in from the clinch
    weak clinch tdd
    < avg shoot sl or dl tdd
    avg top control
    < avg jits
    < avg guard passing ability
    > avg gnp
    avg active guard
    ok chin
    ok cardio


    dennis bermudez via sub 1st round


    Confidence Meter: 7/10


    What the odds should be
    =======================
    Dennis Bermudez -350
    Max Holloway +290




    Rick Story
    ==========
    southpaw
    Striker/grappler
    aggressive
    decent striker
    heavy handed
    ok punching tech.
    throws various punching combos
    > avg kicker
    ok leg kicks
    throws kicks to the legs/body
    good striker in the clinch/ good body striker
    avg head movement
    avg footwork
    decent clinch td
    decent shoot SL td
    prefers to shoot for a DL/SL td against the cage
    avg clinch tdd
    < avg shoot sl or dl tdd
    ok top control
    ok jits
    > avg guard passing ability
    deent gnp
    > avg active guard
    good chin
    ok cardio




    Mike Pyle
    ==========
    Striker/grappler
    ok striker
    decent punching tech.
    throws a 1-2 mostly
    > avg kicker
    > avg leg kicks
    throws kicks to the legs/body
    > avg striker in the clinch
    < avg head movement
    ok footwork
    ok clinch td/trip
    ok shoot td
    prefers trip td from the clinch
    weak clinch tdd
    weak shoot sl or dl tdd
    ok top control
    decent jits
    ok guard passing ability
    decent gnp
    decent active guard
    weak chin
    ok cardio


    Rick Story via KO/TKO Rd 1


    Confidence meter:6.5/10


    What the odds should be
    =======================
    Rick Story -250
    Mike Pyle +210




    Donald Cerrone
    ===============
    Striker/grappler
    aggressive
    good striker
    decent punching tech.
    throws various punching combos/ 1-2 or 1-2 kick mostly
    good kicker
    good leg kicks
    throws kicks to the legs/body/head
    ok striker in the clinch/ good knees
    weak head movement
    avg footwork
    < avg clinch trip td
    decent shoot DL td
    prefers to shoot for a DL td
    < avg clinch tdd
    < avg shoot sl or dl tdd
    avg top control
    ok jits
    ok guard passing ability
    decent gnp
    decent active guard
    ok chin
    ok cardio




    KJ Noons
    ========
    Striker
    aggressive
    decent striker
    decent punching tech.
    throws various punching combos
    > avg kicker
    ok leg kicks
    throws kicks to the legs/body/head
    > avg striker in the clinch/ good body punches
    decent head movement ???
    avg footwork
    weak clinch td
    < avg shoot td
    rarely goes for td
    prefers to shoot for a DL td
    weak clinch tdd
    weak shoot sl or dl tdd
    weak top control
    avg jits
    weak guard passing ability
    < avg gnp
    < avg guard
    decent chin
    ok cardio


    KJ Noons via Decision


    Confidence meter: 4/10


    What the odds should be
    ========================
    Donald Cerrone -150
    KJ Noons +125




    Gray Maynard
    =============
    Striker/grappler
    aggressive
    decent striker
    decent punching tech.
    heavy handed
    throws various punching combos
    avg kicker ???
    > avg leg kicks
    throws kicks to the legs/head
    ok striker in the clinch/good knees
    > avg head movement
    ok footwork
    good clinch td
    good shoot DL td
    prefers to shoot for a DL td against the cage
    avg clinch tdd
    decent shoot sl or dl tdd
    decent top control
    > avg jits
    > avg guard passing ability
    decent gnp
    < avg guard
    ok chin
    ok cardio




    TJ Grant
    =========
    Striker/grappler
    aggressive
    decent striker
    decent punching tech.
    throws various punching ccombos
    > avg kicker
    ok leg kicks
    throws kicks to the legs/body/head
    good striker in the clinch/good knees & elbows
    > avg head movement
    > avg footwork
    ok clinch td
    ok shoot td
    prefers to shoot for a DL/knee tap td
    < avg clinch tdd
    weak shoot sl or dl tdd
    > avg top control
    decent jits
    decent guard passing ability
    ok gnp
    decent active guard/good sweeps
    good chin
    ok cardio


    Gray Maynard via Decision


    Confidence Meter: 6.5/10


    What the odds should be
    =======================
    Gray Maynard -250
    TJ Grant +200




    Glover Teixeira
    ================
    Striker/grappler
    aggressive
    good striker
    heavy handed
    ok punching tech.
    throws various punching combos
    > avg kicker
    > avg leg kicks
    throws kicks to the legs/body/head
    ok striker in the clinch
    > avg head movement
    avg footwork
    avg clinch td
    decent shoot td
    prefers to shoot for SL/DL td
    > avg clinch tdd
    > avg shoot sl or dl tdd
    decent top control
    good jits
    good guard passing ability
    good gnp
    guard ??? no one has put him on his back in 16 fights
    decent chin
    decent cardio




    James Te Huna
    ==============
    Striker/grappler
    aggressive
    good striker
    heavy handed
    good hand speed
    good punching tech.
    throws various punching combos
    avg kicker
    > avg leg kicks
    throws kicks to the legs/body/head
    avg striker in the clinch
    > avg head movement
    > avg footwork
    decent clinch td
    ok shoot SL td
    prefers high-c td against the cage
    < avg clinch tdd
    avg shoot sl or dl tdd
    decent top control
    ok jits
    ok guard passing ability
    good gnp
    < avg guard
    < avg chin
    ok cardio


    Glover Texiera via KO/TKO/SUB Round 1


    Confidence Meter: 6.5/10


    What the Odds should be
    =======================
    Glover Texiera -250
    James Te Huna +210




    Mark Hunt
    ==========
    Striker/grappler
    aggressive
    good striker
    heavy handed
    decent punching tech.
    throws various punching combos
    ok kicker
    good leg kicks
    throws kicks to the legs/body/head
    ok striker in the clinch/good knees
    avg head movement
    avg footwork
    ok clinch td
    < avg shoot td
    prefers DUH td/trips in the clinch
    weak clinch tdd
    weak shoot sl or dl tdd
    avg top control
    ok jits
    > avg guard passing ability
    decent gnp
    avg guard
    good chin
    avg cardio




    Junior Dos Santos
    ==================
    Striker
    aggressive
    good striker
    heavy handed
    decent punching tech.
    throws various punching combos
    > avg kicker
    ok leg kicks
    throws kicks to the legs/body/head
    rarely kicks
    > avg striker in the clinch/good body punches
    avg head movement
    ok footwork
    > avg clinch td
    > avg shoot td
    prefers DUH trips in the clinch
    rarely attempts tds
    > avg clinch tdd
    avg shoot sl or dl tdd
    < avg top control
    weak jits
    weak guard passing ability
    > avg gnp
    weak guard
    decent chin
    > avg cardio


    Mark Hunt via KO round 3


    Confidence Meter:5/10


    What the Odds Should be
    =======================
    JDS -200
    Hunt +165




    Cain Velasquez
    ===============
    Striker/grappler
    aggressive
    good striker
    good punching tech.
    throws various punching combos/ 1-2 kick favored
    decent kicker
    decent leg kicks
    throws kicks to the legs/body/head
    good striker in the clinch/good activity & variety
    good head movement
    ok footwork
    good clinch td
    good shoot td
    prefers to shoot for a SL/DL td
    > avg clinch tdd
    ok shoot sl or dl tdd
    good top control
    > avg jits
    ok guard passing ability
    plus gnp
    guard ???
    > avg chin
    good cardio




    Antonio Silva
    ==============
    Striker/grappler
    aggressive
    good striker
    heavy handed
    ok punching tech.
    throws various punching combos
    ok kicker
    good leg kicks
    throws kicks to the legs/body/head
    ok striker in the clinch
    weak head movement
    avg footwork
    ok clinch td/trip
    decent shoot td
    prefers to shoot for a DL td
    weak clinch tdd
    weak shoot sl or dl tdd
    decent top control
    decent jits
    decent guard passing ability
    good gnp
    avg guard
    avg chin
    decent cardio


    cain velasquez via tko round 2


    confidence meter: 8/10


    what the odds should be
    ========================
    Cain Velasquez -650
    Antonio Silva +500

    @whipthecapper
    WTF is this?

  14. #49
    whipton
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacrelicious View Post
    WTF is this?
    my thread

  15. #50
    Sacrelicious
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    Quote Originally Posted by whipton View Post
    my thread
    Unreal.


  16. #51
    whipton
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    How can I compete with your ever so informative thread ???

  17. #52
    whipton
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacrelicious View Post
    Unreal.

    How can I compete with your ever so informative thread ???

    Stay positive

  18. #53
    PunisherIND
    myles jewry
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    Quote Originally Posted by whipton View Post
    my thread
    oh shit, I thought this was the event thread. lol. my bad for infiltrating dude. next time try to use a different thread title.

  19. #54
    PunisherIND
    myles jewry
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  20. #55
    Vaughany
    Jibbbeh is my idol.
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    lol

  21. #56
    whipton
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    Quote Originally Posted by PunisherIND View Post
    oh shit, I thought this was the event thread. lol. my bad for infiltrating dude. next time try to use a different thread title.
    Infiltrating ???? Nah bro you're all welcome to post. Why would I care. Positive or negative reactions I love it .

  22. #57
    PunisherIND
    myles jewry
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    Quote Originally Posted by whipton View Post
    Infiltrating ???? Nah bro you're all welcome to post. Why would I care. Positive or negative reactions I love it .
    cool. some people get sensitive about their personal threads.

  23. #58
    mirinquads
    Eat my enormous ballsack boys
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    Quote Originally Posted by MD View Post
    I don't blame you. All of those value parlays must have really drained your magical energy. I'm sure you're running on empty by now.

    Such is the price we pay for creating value out of thin air.
    Rofl whipton gettin' straight whipped on.

  24. #59
    whipton
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    Quote Originally Posted by mirinquads View Post
    Rofl whipton gettin' straight whipped on.
    Am I ?

  25. #60
    sideloaded
    staring into the abyss
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    dude this is a shit show, everyone think this is ufc 160 thread now

  26. #61
    mirinquads
    Eat my enormous ballsack boys
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    Quote Originally Posted by whipton View Post
    Am I ?
    You should find a better way to setup your post my friend, You prob. got some valid insight, but this is just wierd and annoying.

  27. #62
    whipton
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    Quote Originally Posted by mirinquads View Post
    You should find a better way to setup your post my friend, You prob. got some valid insight, but this is just wierd and annoying.
    Is it weird and annoying because I don't see how.

  28. #63
    whipton
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    Quote Originally Posted by mirinquads View Post
    You prob. got some valid insight
    Thanks for the one positive thing you have ever said about me.


  29. #64
    Grabaka
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    Quote Originally Posted by PunisherIND View Post
    cool. some people get sensitive about their personal threads.
    Yeah. You never post in mine. I dont know what im doing wrong

  30. #65
    PunisherIND
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grabaka View Post
    Yeah. You never post in mine. I dont know what im doing wrong
    heehe. I was duped into posting here. i like to stay in neutral territory. international waters, if you will.

  31. #66
    whipton
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    How do I post a pic in my avatar ?? It's not working for me.

  32. #67
    PunisherIND
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    Quote Originally Posted by whipton View Post
    How do I post a pic in my avatar ?? It's not working for me.
    http://www.sportsbookreview.com/forum/profile.php?do=editavatar

  33. #68
    whipton
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    thanks broski

  34. #69
    Tommy Blingshyne
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    Quote Originally Posted by PunisherIND View Post
    tommy, maybe I didn't explain it great, but I actually give noons 0% chance of sub. i'd say 10% itd, either in the form of a flash ko, or fluke injury. 10% chance he wins a decision. put it this way, I like cerrone SU most of all. by playing the -530, i'm still getting cerrone SU for all intents and purposes, and I get a little more coverage in case of a flash ko/fluke injury.
    thats why im saying...noons not by dec. means youre betting on cerrone by dec, tko/ko, sub as well as noons by sub, tko/ko all in one bet...noons by dec. would be graded as a loss according to that specific prop...according to what you said, you give noons zero chance at a sub and only 10% chance at a ko/tko...so basically theres pretty much nothing noons can do to help you win your bet according to your analysis, save for a very small chance (10%) via flukey injury or flash KO...so basically, to win your bet, according to what you think, youre really banking on cerrone finishing noons or winning a decision...since you already have cerrone straight up, why not take cerrone ITD +135 odds (5D) or wait till the specific prop odds come out for a tko/ko or sub and play those for even bigger + odds? as opposed to -530 odds...you dont think noons can sub cerrone, you dont think noons can decision cerrone and you only give noons a 10% chance to possible ko him...that pretty much only leaves cerrone by finish or decision...either of those props (itd, tko/ko or sub) would pay out far better then a -530 not noons by dec bet....if you gave noons a real chance at a ko/tko or a sub, this -530 bet would have more sense, but you only give a small fluke chance of a ko/tko and zero chance of a sub...so why make a bet that includes those outcomes if they dont even provide any value to you?

  35. #70
    PunisherIND
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tommy Blingshyne View Post
    thats why im saying...noons not by dec. means youre betting on cerrone by dec, tko/ko, sub as well as noons by sub, tko/ko all in one bet...noons by dec. would be graded as a loss according to that specific prop...according to what you said, you give noons zero chance at a sub and only 10% chance at a ko/tko...so basically theres pretty much nothing noons can do to help you win your bet according to your analysis, save for a very small chance (10%) via flukey injury or flash KO...so basically, to win your bet, according to what you think, youre really banking on cerrone finishing noons or winning a decision...since you already have cerrone straight up, why not take cerrone ITD +135 odds (5D) or wait till the specific prop odds come out for a tko/ko or sub and play those for even bigger + odds? as opposed to -530 odds...you dont think noons can sub cerrone, you dont think noons can decision cerrone and you only give noons a 10% chance to possible ko him...that pretty much only leaves cerrone by finish or decision...either of those props (itd, tko/ko or sub) would pay out far better then a -530 not noons by dec bet....if you gave noons a real chance at a ko/tko or a sub, this -530 bet would have more sense, but you only give a small fluke chance of a ko/tko and zero chance of a sub...so why make a bet that includes those outcomes if they dont even provide any value to you?
    that 10% makes this bet worthwhile for me. I have cerrone winning 80% of the time, and noons winning itd 10% of the time. so that's 90% of possible outcomes at -530, or 84.1%. I understand a lot disagree with my numbers, but if we're going along with my numbers, I think the bet makes sense. you are right, however, that my bet includes noons by sub, but overall its still has value imo. im not sure I can explain it better. I think the lines for cerrone itd and by decision are about right. I don't see any value there at the moment.

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