[NYSportsGuy210]

After watching a the last three fights this guy had I can easily say when it comes to the pyschological aspect and the ring movement aspect of boxing this guy should get a pHd. I have never seen someone use ring space so wisely and so fluidly like Mayweather does....EVER.

He made me dizzy just watching him slip in and out of different areas of the ring. I can imagine his opponents get really dizzy just trying to square him up.

Plus Mayweather knows how to hit a fighter when he is in an unorthodox stance and time it just right when the opponent least expects to get hit. I have seen none better other than Roy Jones Jr. in his prime at being able to do this. Mayweather seemed to throw hard right crosses while he was in a stance that looked like he was gonna throw left handed jabs....you never see any other fighters do this. His hand speed and elusiveness let him get away with it too without being countered.

Now we all know that could lead to some dirty shots (ie-what Floyd did to Victor Ortiz in 2011 with that sucker punch) but all in all Floyd has won most of his matches pretty fairly.

So what kind of fighter will it take to beat Floyd Mayweather and how can someone outsmart this guy?

In order to outsmart Floyd Mayweather Jr. you have to know his mindset in the ring as a boxer. Most boxers don't know this and are immediately at a disadvantage. Floyd Mayweather has a "counterintuitive mindset" in the ring. That is he is ALWAYS DEFENDING FIRST and ATTACKING SECOND. Most boxers are trained and naturally approach their opponent the other way around.....they look to ATTACK and inflict damage FIRST and EVADE AND BLOCK second. FLloyd knows this and basically trains his whole game to counter act these natural opponent instincts.

Well like in baseball, if you're a hitter who is struggling to hit certain pitches....you have to make adjustments. Stop coming at Floyd like Guerrero did tonight and Miguel Cotto usually do. You cannot corner this man unless he lets you so why even bother? Stick and move.....stick and move....elude his attacks. Do NOT try to be the aggressor.

Only boxers who have both a better reach advantage and very fast hands can give Floyd Mayweather Jr. trouble. That is a rare combination indeed in the sports sad to say. This type of boxer has to wait to Floyd comes to him....and has to study tape on when to hit Floyd as he is trying to stand upright after one of his slippery ducking sessions. If he can time that he can rock Mayweather and throw him off his game.

[pouyasophy]

After watching a the last three fights this guy had I can easily say when it comes to the pyschological aspect and the ring movement aspect of boxing this guy should get a pHd. I have never seen someone use ring space so wisely and so fluidly like Mayweather does....EVER.

He made me dizzy just watching him slip in and out of different areas of the ring. I can imagine his opponents get really dizzy just trying to square him up.

Plus Mayweather knows how to hit a fighter when he is in an unorthodox stance and time it just right when the opponent least expects to get hit. I have seen none better other than Roy Jones Jr. in his prime at being able to do this. Mayweather seemed to throw hard right crosses while he was in a stance that looked like he was gonna throw left handed jabs....you never see any other fighters do this. His hand speed and elusiveness let him get away with it too without being countered.

Now we all know that could lead to some dirty shots (ie-what Floyd did to Victor Ortiz in 2011 with that sucker punch) but all in all Floyd has won most of his matches pretty fairly.

So what kind of fighter will it take to beat Floyd Mayweather and how can someone outsmart this guy?

In order to outsmart Floyd Mayweather Jr. you have to know his mindset in the ring as a boxer. Most boxers don't know this and are immediately at a disadvantage. Floyd Mayweather has a "counterintuitive mindset" in the ring. That is he is ALWAYS DEFENDING FIRST and ATTACKING SECOND. Most boxers are trained and naturally approach their opponent the other way around.....they look to ATTACK and inflict damage FIRST and EVADE AND BLOCK second. FLloyd knows this and basically trains his whole game to counter act these natural opponent instincts.

Well like in baseball, if you're a hitter who is struggling to hit certain pitches....you have to make adjustments. Stop coming at Floyd like Guerrero did tonight and Miguel Cotto usually do. You cannot corner this man unless he lets you so why even bother? Stick and move.....stick and move....elude his attacks. Do NOT try to be the aggressor.

Only boxers who have both a better reach advantage and very fast hands can give Floyd Mayweather Jr. trouble. That is a rare combination indeed in the sports sad to say. This type of boxer has to wait to Floyd comes to him....and has to study tape on when to hit Floyd as he is trying to stand upright after one of his slippery ducking sessions. If he can time that he can rock Mayweather and throw him off his game.

[InTheDrink]

unreal

[Smoke]

Papa grande

[TheCalculator]

Da heat

[TheCentaur]

I say step on his lead foot and see if he can move around

[tony_come]

It's all about the money

[InTheDrink]

heres why tony is so easy to beat

[NYSportsGuy210]

Why are there so many trolls on here? Forming boy scout NWO wanna be "nations" on SBR. Seriously does that make you think you're really entertaining and witty?

[onacloud]

Why are there so many trolls on here? Forming boy scout NWO wanna be "nations" on SBR. Seriously does that make you think you're really entertaining and witty?

Its pathetic and only seems to be getting worse

[shady610]

I think the way to fight floyd is to be more defensive than him on the outside. Be very patient even to the point where people think its boring. Floyds mental game is strong, but even he knows he is on the hook for the performance, so he will eventually come at you. Its not like he is a combo puncher or power puncher of any kind. Attacking him doesnt work. Make him come to you and punch where he will be, not where he is.

[Mac4Lyfe]

Mayweather has been boxing since birth. He has seen all sorts of styles. Several fighters have tried to stay on the outside and he just out punches them until eventually they have to catch up. His hand speed is too fast and his accuracy/defense is top notch. Good luck trying to out score him.

The only way I see someone beating him is to dirty up the fight by clinching, grabbing and lunging with your head. Get him frustrated so that he may get rattled. Head butt that may lead to a cut or something. Outside of fouling him or doing something illegal, I don't see a way to beat him at that weight.

Father time is probably the only thing that will get the best of him eventually.

[oldscho0led]

Just like Mosley said, Pacquiao is a very hard puncher. But Pretty Boy, you don't see him literally on the ring because of his speed, defense and elusiveness

[NYSportsGuy210]

I think Shady610 and MacLyfe make some good points. However this Guerrero guy had the heart and will to after Floyd....just not the proper reach or the hand speed. If there is a boxer out there that can be patient like Shady610 said and has the fast hand speed, power like Guerrero and a distinct reach advantage against Floyd he can possibly outscore and frustrate Floyd.

Remember Floyd rarely throws combos....he just ducks in hooks once....weaves out, blocks....rinse repeat.

[The Samurai]

I think the way to fight floyd is to be more defensive than him on the outside. Be very patient even to the point where people think its boring. Floyds mental game is strong, but even he knows he is on the hook for the performance, so he will eventually come at you. Its not like he is a combo puncher or power puncher of any kind. Attacking him doesnt work. Make him come to you and punch where he will be, not where he is.

This is why nobody watches the fights no more pal. None of these turds have the killer instincts of the greats. Heard Tyson on Howard Stern a couple weeks ago and when he was asked why boxing is no longer popular and Tyson said, in paraphrase, these guys are afraid to get hurt and don't want to hurt anybody. He also gave credit to mma, which I'm not a huge fan of, for bringing back the killer instinct to the pugilistic arts. There's no bigger student or expert on the fight game than Tyson. If he says boxing sucks now, then it sucks. Case closed. I'm not gonna watch Floyd be a ballerina for an hour. Granted boxing is about hitting and not getting hit, but pitty patting a dude for 12 just enough to squeek by is disrespectful to the greats like Ali and Robinson whom gave there lives ultimately, to put on a great show.

[Jimmy Proffett]

Good OP. I think the only person that could've given Mayweather a run for his money was Roy Jones Jr when Junior was lighter. Okay it would've been a "ballerina act", but it would've been a great fight all around, and probably would've forced Mayweather to come out swinging in the later rounds.

[Pabinator]

Pacroid a few years ago would have been interesting to see only because he throws lots of punch's and he threw them quickly and non stop all fight.

Of course this was due to his high testosterone or whatever it was he was on.

No one else in the sport right now can challenge him skill wise its just father time is catching up to him, soon someone will get him.

& then we all will just start watching UFC

[NYSportsGuy210]

This is why nobody watches the fights no more pal. None of these turds have the killer instincts of the greats. Heard Tyson on Howard Stern a couple weeks ago and when he was asked why boxing is no longer popular and Tyson said, in paraphrase, these guys are afraid to get hurt and don't want to hurt anybody. He also gave credit to mma, which I'm not a huge fan of, for bringing back the killer instinct to the pugilistic arts. There's no bigger student or expert on the fight game than Tyson. If he says boxing sucks now, then it sucks. Case closed. I'm not gonna watch Floyd be a ballerina for an hour. Granted boxing is about hitting and not getting hit, but pitty patting a dude for 12 just enough to squeek by is disrespectful to the greats like Ali and Robinson whom gave there lives ultimately, to put on a great show.

I disagree with these statements in that boxing is a two-fold sport -offense and defense. Back in the mid 60's to mid 90's you saw the offensive game really evolve but fighters for the most part weren't that great at dodging their opponent's attacks. Of late it has been the opposite. You are now seeing the defensive game of boxing really evolve with Floyd Mayweather leading the way.

And Tyson isn't correct....if you saw Mayweather last night, he was trying to hurt and knock out Guerrero he just wasn't going out of his way to do it while taking a pounding himself. It's called "self-preservation".

[Jimmy Proffett]

And Tyson isn't correct....if you saw Mayweather last night, he was trying to hurt and knock out Guerrero he just wasn't going out of his way to do it while taking a pounding himself. It's called "self-preservation".

Yeah this. Mayweather seems like a pretty smart guy; he's seen all these other boxers before him with dementia or dying way too soon. He's disrespectful b/c he doesn't want to give his life putting on a show? lol Samurai. How about you become a vegetable putting on a show and then come back and talk to us ok?

[pouyasophy]

How are the Knicks working out for ya?

Pacers didn't break a sweat covering Melo...and what a game by JR Smith

[pouyasophy]

He's like a shit-talking GSP...fans buy his fights (for some reason), and he's a lock to win by decision every time

[The Samurai]

Yeah this. Mayweather seems like a pretty smart guy; he's seen all these other boxers before him with dementia or dying way too soon. He's disrespectful b/c he doesn't want to give his life putting on a show? lol Samurai. How about you become a vegetable putting on a show and then come back and talk to us ok?

Well, I'll just say that if you enjoy watching these kinda fights great. The majority does not. When I quit watching the Guerrero fight in the 4th, fans were already booing and it was easy to hear. If you don't want to acknowledge that boxing isn't what it was, fine. After $ retires, you'll be watching these fights in sparsely populated arenas.

[bobby heenan]

"these guys are afraid to get hurt and dont wanna hurt nobody"

well i love mike and all...i do...but this absurd.....see this is the problem with the casual boxing fan...they dont knonw anything anymore or follow the fight game....for every fight like mayweather/guerrero there is a rios/alvarado somewhere....you just have to be willing to see it....did anyone see wlad dismantle pianeta saturday? do you guys not remember jmms brutal knockout of pac with a second left in the round??? anyone see zabs face in the garcia fight??

there are tons of guys engaging in wars and getting brutally knocked out just about every week...you just have to be watching and know who you are watching....most people arent interested in the sport enough to follow it closley

[bobby heenan]

Good OP. I think the only person that could've given Mayweather a run for his money was Roy Jones Jr when Junior was lighter. Okay it would've been a "ballerina act", but it would've been a great fight all around, and probably would've forced Mayweather to come out swinging in the later rounds.

its absurd to think they would have ever fought...roy was way too big for floyd....and as big of a floyd fan as i am....id even say roys athletic gifts were better....but floyd has mastered every fundamental nuance of the game....whereas roys whole style was predicated on his athletic gifts......floyds gifts can erode...but his complete mastery of the game doesnt....hes always a step ahead of his opponent

[eidolon]

you have to be sugar ray leonard to be able to beat mayweather

[The Samurai]

"these guys are afraid to get hurt and dont wanna hurt nobody"

well i love mike and all...i do...but this absurd.....see this is the problem with the casual boxing fan...they dont knonw anything anymore or follow the fight game....for every fight like mayweather/guerrero there is a rios/alvarado somewhere....you just have to be willing to see it....did anyone see wlad dismantle pianeta saturday? do you guys not remember jmms brutal knockout of pac with a second left in the round??? anyone see zabs face in the garcia fight??

there are tons of guys engaging in wars and getting brutally knocked out just about every week...you just have to be watching and know who you are watching....most people arent interested in the sport enough to follow it closley

Good points Bobby. You are right in that I don't follow boxing like I used to. I guess I just felt burned so many times in watching Snoozers. Any recommendations on fighters I should follow that aren't going in to just get by and out point the other man?

[bobby heenan]

Good points Bobby. You are right in that I don't follow boxing like I used to. I guess I just felt burned so many times in watching Snoozers. Any recommendations on fighters I should follow that aren't going in to just get by and out point the other man?

i totally understand where some people feel burned and it turns them off.....

but there are a ton of guys out there that fight.....go youtube brandon rios/mike alvarado....theyve fought twice....there are tons of guys though...sergey kovalev is fun to watch...carl froch is a tough sob(whom i initially hated)....peter quillin...lucas mathysse....and of course there are tons of other talented fighters/names you know you just have to watch....some fights arent going to be exciting as others.....thats the thing...you just never know....i mean i can remember watching sergio martinez/chavez jr.....and sergio was in complete control dominating a rather boring fight...and boom in the 12 chavez catches him and has him haning on for dear life.....

the best part of watching floyd for me is....every guy is going to try to bring their best game...it would make their life to knock him off....but there comes a time where they realize they are in over their heads...and hes a step ahead of them....often at a certain point they realize they cant do what they want to do....what they thought they could....and alot of the times they start getting gunshy after eating a few....floyd would like to knock guys out and put on a show...i do believe that....but he has had trouble with his hands for most of his career....and a complete break of the hand is such a setback....ask paulie malignaggi....hes had several surgeries(he even stated he took the cotto fight way before he was probably ready because he didnt know if hed get a shot like that again due to the hand problems)

[TheMoneyShot]

I say when the bell rings for the opening round... come at Mayweather like a wild Spider Monkey... and hope you get one GOOD one in... maybe that will startle him. If you don't... you'll be knocked out in 5 seconds.

[bobby heenan]

I say when the bell rings for the opening round... come at Mayweather like a wild Spider Monkey... and hope you get one GOOD one in... maybe that will startle him. If you don't... you'll be knocked out in 5 seconds.

shane startled him...landed two huge shots....and the amazing thing was, as rarely as that happens to floyd, he instinctly knew to tie up his right arm so he couldnt get off another one....and one of them was right on his temple.....it was a testament to floyds instincts and ring iq....

[TheMoneyShot]

I didn't get a chance to watch the fight... in fact I don't think I've ever watched any of his fights. Sounds like a well rounded boxer. Wish I watched him throughout his entire career.

[bobby heenan]

[bobby heenan]

that was a big shot....most guys that get hit like that have a tendency to go backwards and retreat...floyd tries to tie up his right arm and comes forward to shane cant get full extension on another shot like that.....its textbook stuff....

after that floyd took complete control and made shane look foolish...shane became afraid to throw...and i think nazim richardson was close to stopping the fight once or twice

[Mac4Lyfe]

^^^Excellent posts Bobby... Shane was the closest guy to really hurt Floyd but his instincts are so uncanny. He is so skilled that he knows what to do when in trouble. Right after that he dismantled Shane (who is also one of the best technically as well). I really think that fight took out all the steam Shane had left. He was never the same fighter after that fight. Floyd made him question his manhood.

People need to remember that these guys are SMALL and small guys normally don't have enough power to knock folks out. We're talking about welterweights here. I think many people are mixing up these guys as if they are heavyweights. Look at the history of the welterweight division. You can go back to Ted "Kid" Lewis who won the title in 1915. Kid Lewis fought 299 bouts but only had 80 knockouts (27%). Jack Britton who boxed for 25 years fought 350 bouts with only 30 KO's (8.5%). Joe Dundee in the 20's had only a 17% KO rate.

Mickey Walker in the 20's had a high KO rate of 37% but high risk equals high rewards as he lost 25 bouts and ended up with Parkinsons by being hit too much.

Barney Ross, Jimmy McLarnin, Heck even Kid Gavilan all had very low KO percentages in the mid century.

Then came along Henry Armstrong 150-21-10 with 101 KO's (56%). Armstrong started boxing in 1931 but had an incredible streak of 27 straight KO's in 1937/1938. He made history by becoming the first boxer to have world championships in three different divisions at the same time. He would go from Featherweight, Lightweight and Welterweight at the drop of a hat. He is universally regarded as one of the greatest fighters of all time, most recognize him as the 2nd greatest fighter of the century.

Other notable Welterweights... I've highlighted in Red all the boxers with less than 60% KO rate.

Sugar Ray Robinson 173-19-6 108 KO's (54%)
Buddy McGirt 73-6-1 48 KO's (60%)
Roberto Duran 103-16 70 KO's 59%
Sugar Ray Leonard 36-3-1 25 KO's 62.5%
Pernell Whitaker 40-4-1 17 KO's 38%
Oscar De La Hoya 39-6 30 KO's 67%
Felix Trinidad 42-3 35 KO's 78%
Shane Mosley 46-8-1 39 KO's 71%
Vernon Forrest 41-3 29 KO's 66%
Mayweather 44-0 26 KO's 59%

Lots of Welterweight champions had less than 60% KO rate. The smaller the fighter the less chance for knockouts. Move to middleweight on up and the percentages go up.

Now let's look at some notable heavyweights. Only one fighter had a less than 60% KO rate, ironically Jack Johnson who was one of the most controversial. Most people wrongly consider him to be a big brute that use to knock out people all the time. Untrue.

Mike Tyson 50-6 44 KO's 76%
George Foreman 76-5 68 KO's 84%
Muhammad Ali 56-5 37 KO's 61%
Joe Lewis 32-4-1 27 KO's 73%
Sonny Liston 50-4 39 KO's 72%
Rocky Marciano 49-0 43 KO's 88%
Jack Dempsey 65-6-11 51 KO's 61%
Joe Louis 69-3 57 KO's 79%
Jack Johnson 80-13-12 45 KO's 39%

People love knockouts. That's what people want to see. Unfortunately, you won't see many knockouts at the lower weight classes. That's what's hurting boxing. It's hard for people to appreciate the boxing skills of a Mayweather. It's easier and less controversial to see someone get knocked the fukk out. Boxing is in a slump because most of the US heavyweights are playing some other sport. Until boxing starts to recruit heavily and pay in the early stages it's going to be difficult to attract the big guys that make it so fun to watch.

[Rubber Guard]

People love knockouts. That's what people want to see. Unfortunately, you won't see many knockouts at the lower weight classes. That's what's hurting boxing. It's hard for people to appreciate the boxing skills of a Mayweather. It's easier and less controversial to see someone get knocked the fukk out. Boxing is in a slump because most of the US heavyweights are playing some other sport. Until boxing starts to recruit heavily and pay in the early stages it's going to be difficult to attract the big guys that make it so fun to watch.

Agree with this. Boxing is hurt in this country much in part because the HW division sucks and especially sucks in terms of any U.S. prospects. People are bored with the Klitch's; as great as they are. Other than Floyd they are missing many big personalities within the elite as well. Many of the best ones are in the twilight of their careers, such as B-Hop or Manny.

[bobby heenan]

^^^Excellent posts Bobby... Shane was the closest guy to really hurt Floyd but his instincts are so uncanny. He is so skilled that he knows what to do when in trouble. Right after that he dismantled Shane (who is also one of the best technically as well). I really think that fight took out all the steam Shane had left. He was never the same fighter after that fight. Floyd made him question his manhood.

People need to remember that these guys are SMALL and small guys normally don't have enough power to knock folks out. We're talking about welterweights here. I think many people are mixing up these guys as if they are heavyweights. Look at the history of the welterweight division. You can go back to Ted "Kid" Lewis who won the title in 1915. Kid Lewis fought 299 bouts but only had 80 knockouts (27%). Jack Britton who boxed for 25 years fought 350 bouts with only 30 KO's (8.5%). Joe Dundee in the 20's had only a 17% KO rate.

Mickey Walker in the 20's had a high KO rate of 37% but high risk equals high rewards as he lost 25 bouts and ended up with Parkinsons by being hit too much.

Barney Ross, Jimmy McLarnin, Heck even Kid Gavilan all had very low KO percentages in the mid century.

Then came along Henry Armstrong 150-21-10 with 101 KO's (56%). Armstrong started boxing in 1931 but had an incredible streak of 27 straight KO's in 1937/1938. He made history by becoming the first boxer to have world championships in three different divisions at the same time. He would go from Featherweight, Lightweight and Welterweight at the drop of a hat. He is universally regarded as one of the greatest fighters of all time, most recognize him as the 2nd greatest fighter of the century.

Other notable Welterweights... I've highlighted in Red all the boxers with less than 60% KO rate.

Sugar Ray Robinson 173-19-6 108 KO's (54%)
Buddy McGirt 73-6-1 48 KO's (60%)
Roberto Duran 103-16 70 KO's 59%
Sugar Ray Leonard 36-3-1 25 KO's 62.5%
Pernell Whitaker 40-4-1 17 KO's 38%
Oscar De La Hoya 39-6 30 KO's 67%
Felix Trinidad 42-3 35 KO's 78%
Shane Mosley 46-8-1 39 KO's 71%
Vernon Forrest 41-3 29 KO's 66%
Mayweather 44-0 26 KO's 59%

Lots of Welterweight champions had less than 60% KO rate. The smaller the fighter the less chance for knockouts. Move to middleweight on up and the percentages go up.

Now let's look at some notable heavyweights. Only one fighter had a less than 60% KO rate, ironically Jack Johnson who was one of the most controversial. Most people wrongly consider him to be a big brute that use to knock out people all the time. Untrue.

Mike Tyson 50-6 44 KO's 76%
George Foreman 76-5 68 KO's 84%
Muhammad Ali 56-5 37 KO's 61%
Joe Lewis 32-4-1 27 KO's 73%
Sonny Liston 50-4 39 KO's 72%
Rocky Marciano 49-0 43 KO's 88%
Jack Dempsey 65-6-11 51 KO's 61%
Joe Louis 69-3 57 KO's 79%
Jack Johnson 80-13-12 45 KO's 39%

People love knockouts. That's what people want to see. Unfortunately, you won't see many knockouts at the lower weight classes. That's what's hurting boxing. It's hard for people to appreciate the boxing skills of a Mayweather. It's easier and less controversial to see someone get knocked the fukk out. Boxing is in a slump because most of the US heavyweights are playing some other sport. Until boxing starts to recruit heavily and pay in the early stages it's going to be difficult to attract the big guys that make it so fun to watch.

mac...i agree with much you have to say....except i dont agree that smaller guys dont have the power to knockout guys.....in the 2.5 years me and me ex girl were together i turned her on to boxing...at least she pretended to love it....she became in love with bernard after watching the pascal fight...his entrance...doing pushups before rounds.....she learned to love floyd....she loved wlad because she found him physically appealing......i made her watch pwill/lara after we went out to dinner and for fireworks(i belive rios fought on the same night on showtime which we watched recorded).....i do agree that the lack of great US heavyweight talent has hurt the sport in terms on general popularity.....but there are tons of great other fights to watch.....but remember shane at 130-135...he had a ridic ko clip
...its just not easy to go up in weight, chase money, and carry that.....as ive said before...there are tons of knockouts and mix it up fights at the lower weight classes....you just have to be willing to follow the top 10 guys and who they fight.....most casual guys dont know most of these guys and dont pay enough attention

when floyd easily disposed of jmm...i remember tons of pac backers saying "jmm cant come up to 147 and still be the same guy"...only to see jmm go up and give pac hell once again and then knock him out....