UFC 211: Miocic vs. Dos Santos 2 (May 13, 2017)

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  • firekillex
    SBR Hall of Famer
    • 09-18-13
    • 6420

    #526
    500 for 500 points i got none steroids jones you got DC?
    Comment
    • Thor4140
      SBR Posting Legend
      • 02-09-08
      • 22296

      #527
      Originally posted by firekillex
      500 for 500 points i got none steroids jones you got DC?
      Why u trying to rob me. Those are not the odds
      Comment
      • Sanity Check
        SBR Posting Legend
        • 03-30-13
        • 10962

        #528
        Originally posted by JIBBBY
        I just don't think T-wood can be taken down and kept down.. Too fast, to strong, to explosive, to good a wrestling base..

        If those Maia take down attempts fail early on then he would have to stand and box with Woodley round after round, I think we all know how that outcome would probably play out in the end..

        I'm thinking Woodley by KO or Decision if he doesn't gas out and get taken down.. Maia isn't a cardio machine himself..
        Maia doesnt have to get Woodley down to gas him out.

        He could take Woodley's back and lock in a triangle, making Woodley carry his weight like he did to Masvidal.

        Even shooting for takedowns & not getting them, Maia could cause Woodley to expend more energy simply by being more efficient, getting better position and being good at making people carry his weight.

        Woodley was so tentative and hesitant against Thompson.

        If he comes out like that, afraid to let his hands go against Maia he could get fkd up.

        Maia could be the next Michael Bisping. No one thought he could be champion but hes gonna do it anyway.
        Comment
        • firekillex
          SBR Hall of Famer
          • 09-18-13
          • 6420

          #529
          Originally posted by Thor4140
          Why u trying to rob me. Those are not the odds
          youre the one saying steroid users cannot win? if you like DC so much why wouldnt you do a point wager for fun to prove the point?
          Comment
          • firekillex
            SBR Hall of Famer
            • 09-18-13
            • 6420

            #530
            Originally posted by Sanity Check
            Maia doesnt have to get Woodley down to gas him out.

            He could take Woodley's back and lock in a triangle, making Woodley carry his weight like he did to Masvidal.

            Even shooting for takedowns & not getting them, Maia could cause Woodley to expend more energy simply by being more efficient, getting better position and being good at making people carry his weight.

            Woodley was so tentative and hesitant against Thompson.

            If he comes out like that, afraid to let his hands go against Maia he could get fkd up.

            much different matchup, tyron didnt want to open up his striking against wonderboy because hes a great counter fighter proven time and time again, he fought wonderboy perfectly to get a W... against Maia he has no worries about getting tagged and can throw big shots, watch the overhand and once Maia gets tired watch his leg kicks super underrated he has big power on them ( something Masvidal had success with )
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            • JIBBBY
              SBR Aristocracy
              • 12-10-09
              • 83686

              #531
              Originally posted by Sanity Check
              Maia doesnt have to get Woodley down to gas him out.

              He could take Woodley's back and lock in a triangle, making Woodley carry his weight like he did to Masvidal.

              Even shooting for takedowns & not getting them, Maia could cause Woodley to expend more energy simply by being more efficient, getting better position and being good at making people carry his weight.

              Woodley was so tentative and hesitant against Thompson.

              If he comes out like that, afraid to let his hands go against Maia he could get fkd up.

              Maia could be the next Michael Bisping. No one thought he could be champion but hes gonna do it anyway.
              T-Wood was hesitant with Wonderboy because Wonderboy was a lengthy striker and he didn't want to catch one on the chin.. Woodley fought smart.. With Maia he really doesn't have to worry about the striking, he can focus on defending take downs and then box and move..

              I'm a huge Maia fan and I will be rooting for him to grab hold of Woodley and stick on him like glue, but I'm just not seeing that happen in this match up.. Masvidal was able to defend those Maia take downs fairly well, Woodley is even gonna be harder to grab onto.. I hope i'm wrong and you are right Sanity...

              Hey but all Maia needs is one take down and then take Woodley's back and he'll have 5 rounds to do it if he can stay conscious...
              Comment
              • Sanity Check
                SBR Posting Legend
                • 03-30-13
                • 10962

                #532
                Originally posted by firekillex
                much different matchup, tyron didnt want to open up his striking against wonderboy because hes a great counter fighter proven time and time again, he fought wonderboy perfectly to get a W... against Maia he has no worries about getting tagged and can throw big shots, watch the overhand and once Maia gets tired watch his leg kicks super underrated he has big power on them ( something Masvidal had success with )
                Woodley doesn't get a free pass against wrestlers. The stats on his UFC page say: 92% takedown defense. Not 100%.

                Swinging hard makes it easier for someone to take you down. Masvidal not swinging hard is one reason Maia had trouble getting him down.

                Originally posted by JIBBBY
                I'm a huge Maia fan and I will be rooting for him to grab hold of Woodley and stick on him like glue, but I'm just not seeing that happen in this match up.. Masvidal was able to defend those Maia take downs fairly well, Woodley is even gonna be harder to grab onto..
                Masvidal defended the takedowns but Maia wore him down.

                Masvidal's cardio is probably better than Woodley's.

                I don't really care who wins but if I get the chance I might make some Maia parlays.

                For laughs.
                Comment
                • firekillex
                  SBR Hall of Famer
                  • 09-18-13
                  • 6420

                  #533
                  hes been taken down once in his ufc career by rory macdonald ... hes fought a ton of good explosive guys so thats impressive imo
                  and he doesnt get tired in the first 2 rounds, stuffing takedowns isnt even close to as tiring and getting stuffed on takedowns
                  Comment
                  • Thor4140
                    SBR Posting Legend
                    • 02-09-08
                    • 22296

                    #534
                    Originally posted by firekillex
                    youre the one saying steroid users cannot win? if you like DC so much why wouldnt you do a point wager for fun to prove the point?
                    i never said that but they sure as hell don't get any better. Okay give me 5000 for 500 since it is for fun. Where did i say i like DC so much anyway. I said i might throw some coin on him just because of that but we are talking about Bones here and not Vitor. If this was pre usada i wouldn't put a dime on DC. I will tell u what for shits a giggles i will go 1000 for 500. Payment delivered after the blood test are in.
                    Comment
                    • firekillex
                      SBR Hall of Famer
                      • 09-18-13
                      • 6420

                      #535
                      Comment
                      • Shagdogy
                        SBR MVP
                        • 06-16-10
                        • 3564

                        #536
                        Originally posted by bjpenn85
                        This is my breakdown:

                        - Jotko, too much risk, no edge at the line of -150-170, Although you won, on this bet, it was too close in the first place.
                        - Poirier, close fight, you had a 50/50 shot at -130, again, no edge. We all know poirier gets rocked in every fight.
                        - Benitez? Who? Horrible bet
                        - Frankie, spot on
                        -Maia, spot on (split dec my ass, that was at least a 29-28 on all cards)

                        So if you look at the fights you clearly won. Maia and Edgar, why did those fighst win you money?

                        - Established fighter, yes, edgar and Maia is absolutely established fighter.
                        - You have seen fighters win and loose, know the fighters weaknesses and strength<-- now this point is critical, why?
                        Well both youre benitez and jotko fight, you didnt fully comprehend their weaknesses prefight because there were no available "data". Jotko has more or less only won in the ufc. Same with benitez. Both Jotko and Benitez have only one loss in the ufc, and those were rather quick. How could you REALLY know what was their real weaknesses? Still you bet on them, thats a major fault in my opinion.
                        - Top level fighter, yes, edgaar and Maia is absolutely at the very top.
                        - Has a significant edge in at least one area, yeah, both frankie and maia had significant edges on the ground, and didnt hesitate to put the fight where they did have that edge.

                        Only one mans crazy opinions though....
                        Good insights. I have to disagree with you that betting on established, top level fighters is the only good spots. I have found particular success betting the undercards because a lot of times the fighters are lesser known and you can get value on the line. I put a lot of value in younger fighters with better fight camps who show improvement. The learning curve is a big thing to me. Jotko looked MUCH improved with his clinch work and ground control vs. Leites and to that point in his career he had looked improved in almost every fight. It's not likely to expect him to fight below his skill level like he did. IMO, if he fought a good fight for his skillset, he wins that fight easy. He fought very poorly.

                        Benitez, I can't call that a horrible bet. I think I underestimated Barzola and his learning curve. I maybe didn't do all the research I should've for that one but I knew Barzola would need to wrestle to win and I thought that Benitez would be better at getting to his feet and using his nasty guillotine for attacks or to change position. He never used it once. Never even looked for it which was weird. Also, from AKA I thought he would've been better prepared for the wrestling. Apparently not.

                        I cap all of the fights beforehand and set my own lines and play value where I see it. Sometimes right sometimes wrong. Like I've said a number of times on here before, I appreciate the input of many of you guys on this forum but at the end of the day I need to bet what I see, even if it's different than everyone else here. That's the only way I can be settled with my bets no matter the outcome.
                        Comment
                        • firekillex
                          SBR Hall of Famer
                          • 09-18-13
                          • 6420

                          #537
                          Originally posted by Shagdogy
                          I cap all of the fights beforehand and set my own lines and play value where I see it. Sometimes right sometimes wrong. Like I've said a number of times on here before, I appreciate the input of many of you guys on this forum but at the end of the day I need to bet what I see, even if it's different than everyone else here. That's the only way I can be settled with my bets no matter the outcome.

                          check mark
                          Comment
                          • Demonata
                            BARRELED IN @ SBR!
                            • 07-12-11
                            • 25829

                            #538
                            Jon Jones will beat Daniel cormier. He does not matchup well with Jones who is a freak of nature.
                            Comment
                            • firekillex
                              SBR Hall of Famer
                              • 09-18-13
                              • 6420

                              #539
                              cormier does have a sweet chin though
                              its either jones decision or submission
                              Comment
                              • Thor4140
                                SBR Posting Legend
                                • 02-09-08
                                • 22296

                                #540
                                Originally posted by Demonata
                                Jon Jones will beat Daniel cormier. He does not matchup well with Jones who is a freak of nature.
                                i agree and than he looked like shit when he was coming off of roids yet still got caught using them again. What is he gonna look like now? Hopefully for him not like Dos Santos or Vitor. After roids Junior got waxed by an overrated Reem. Basically danced his way to victory over a stiff in Rothwell. The dancing was because he wasn't gonna fight like the killer he once was after Reem waxed him. Than of course got smashed by Stipe. You guys go all in on Bones like he never did a Roid in his life. Me ill go with DC or nothing playing it smart. I use to love Jones but he isn't the brightest bulb on the tree which is why Dana once said he will never headline another card. I wonder if Dana forgot he said that.
                                Comment
                                • Thor4140
                                  SBR Posting Legend
                                  • 02-09-08
                                  • 22296

                                  #541
                                  Originally posted by firekillex
                                  cormier does have a sweet chin though
                                  its either jones decision or submission
                                  When that doubt starts setting in around late round two that maybe those roids use to help him out a bit we will see what type of warrior he is. Like i said i use to love the guy but he is a cheat and a big one at that. See if u guys could get that up to three to 1 for me. I think i will jump in then.
                                  Comment
                                  • JIBBBY
                                    SBR Aristocracy
                                    • 12-10-09
                                    • 83686

                                    #542
                                    Originally posted by Demonata
                                    Jon Jones will beat Daniel cormier. He does not matchup well with Jones who is a freak of nature.
                                    Will beat him by decision again... Was a tough match up for him the first time, DC not any younger or much better today. Same result... JJ wins by UN decision and that's how I'll play it.. DC is tough to KO or Sub out so he'll survive the 5 rounds again but get beat on....
                                    Comment
                                    • Thor4140
                                      SBR Posting Legend
                                      • 02-09-08
                                      • 22296

                                      #543
                                      Originally posted by JIBBBY
                                      Will beat him by decision again... Was a tough match up for him the first time, DC not any younger or much better today. Same result... JJ wins by UN decision and that's how I'll play it.. DC is tough to KO or Sub out so he'll survive the 5 rounds again but get beat on....
                                      Jibby u do remember Daniel just destroyed a Rumble that everyone thought it was his time. He has lost one time and that time was to a guy who has been caught cheating multiple times and now has to fight fair. I mean where is the eye test for u guys? I guess it takes a guy one time to lose off of Roids to wake u guys up.
                                      Comment
                                      • JIBBBY
                                        SBR Aristocracy
                                        • 12-10-09
                                        • 83686

                                        #544
                                        Originally posted by Thor4140
                                        Jibby u do remember Daniel just destroyed a Rumble that everyone thought it was his time. He has lost one time and that time was to a guy who has been caught cheating multiple times and now has to fight fair. I mean where is the eye test for u guys? I guess it takes a guy one time to lose off of Roids to wake u guys up.
                                        Thor do even watch MMA seriously? JJ might have a better chin then DC, JJ has the length, speed and youth advantage as well, besides that JJ is an outstanding MMA wrestler..

                                        Still maybe the best in MMA if he could get back in the cage and fight again..

                                        Toyed with DC in that first fight and I suggest you watch it...



                                        Comment
                                        • Sanity Check
                                          SBR Posting Legend
                                          • 03-30-13
                                          • 10962

                                          #545
                                          Jones wasn't the same guy when he fought OSP though.

                                          The drugs have to be killing some of his talent.
                                          Comment
                                          • firekillex
                                            SBR Hall of Famer
                                            • 09-18-13
                                            • 6420

                                            #546
                                            styles make fights and jones wanted some ring time since he was off so long
                                            he will come in versus DC a guy he hates and will not screw around in camp , he knows he needs to beat DC
                                            people saying he was on steroids 100% but he was caught with Off brand dick pills which are known and proven to have traces of steroids in them so its not like he was 100% on steroids, he has every advantage over Cormier in MMA aspects and Cormier is super super injury prone plus hes only getting older while Jones is just hitting his prime.... Wouldnt be surprised to see Jones get a submission here, but ill prob play UD as well....

                                            comparing a Rumble whos a power puncher who is known to give up in hard situations and had one foot out the door in his new career to a GOAT in Jones whos proven he doesnt give up in fights ( gustaffson ) is like comparing apples to oranges
                                            Comment
                                            • GunShard
                                              SBR Posting Legend
                                              • 03-05-10
                                              • 10031

                                              #547
                                              Originally posted by Sanity Check
                                              Jones wasn't the same guy when he fought OSP though.

                                              The drugs have to be killing some of his talent.
                                              Not drugs. Jones was in prison before that fight. Ring rust from prison.
                                              He won't have that ring rust this time around.
                                              Comment
                                              • Sanity Check
                                                SBR Posting Legend
                                                • 03-30-13
                                                • 10962

                                                #548
                                                Originally posted by GunShard
                                                Not drugs. Jones was in prison before that fight. Ring rust from prison.
                                                Athletes who do drugs are pissing their talent away.

                                                You can't blame prison for that. Bernard Hopkins went to prison and came out a better athlete because of it.
                                                Comment
                                                • JIBBBY
                                                  SBR Aristocracy
                                                  • 12-10-09
                                                  • 83686

                                                  #549
                                                  Crack Cocaine can be a performance enhancer as well..

                                                  True story - I use to have an employee/friend who was hooked on crack, he was maybe 150 pounds, 5'5" and 25 years old at the time, all he did was shadow box all night while smoking his crack.. Never slept really.. Couple hours a night.. He was striving to become a professional boxer too. Cardio junky and very fit..

                                                  Anyways I saw him with my own eyes lift a 600 pound weight machine of mine by himself into the back end of my truck.. Mind you I'm a very strong dude myself at 6'5 240 pounds and I could barely slide this weight machine on the ground let alone lift it off the ground in my 20's..

                                                  He lifted this weight machine in the back end bed of my truck by himself, I thought that to be humanly impossible... Another time he also lifted one end of an extremely long and heavy metal big sign pole again into the back of my truck so we could drag it into position with using the truck.. I and another friend could not even budge this pole off the ground, must have weighed close to a 1000 pounds.... I left to get more help but come right back and the pole is hanging out of the back of my truck.. My friend said he lifted it and put in the back of the truck by himself.. My jaw dropped.. I believe he did it because of the previous lift I saw him do with my weight machine..

                                                  Needless to say he was smoking crack at the time and I didn't even know it.. Get him on the bench press he couldn't even bench 205 which was funny to me.. I was so much stronger then him when working out with weights normally..

                                                  Those 2 lifting feats I saw were almost humanly impossible... 20 years later today he is sober, married and fat, owns a house and has a son. Been sober now for 15 years.. We talked about those impossible huge lifting feats and he says it was the drugs that made him super strong... Adrenaline or something, kinda like the old lady lifting the back of a car to free her grandson from under type things..

                                                  So Jon Jones on Crack could have helped his performances just saying.. Not out of the question..
                                                  Comment
                                                  • firekillex
                                                    SBR Hall of Famer
                                                    • 09-18-13
                                                    • 6420

                                                    #550
                                                    Jibby... cmon man lol
                                                    Comment
                                                    • JIBBBY
                                                      SBR Aristocracy
                                                      • 12-10-09
                                                      • 83686

                                                      #551
                                                      Originally posted by firekillex
                                                      Jibby... cmon man lol
                                                      Come on what? Everything I typed above is 100% true, I swear on everything.... Still blows my mind today to think back.. Completely true story..

                                                      Drugs like Crack can help you do super human things especially if you are an athlete.... Lamar Odom probably played his best basketball when hooked on Crack.. Not surprising to see.. Jon Jones probably no different.
                                                      Comment
                                                      • bjpenn85
                                                        SBR Hall of Famer
                                                        • 02-17-11
                                                        • 5059

                                                        #552
                                                        cocaine is performance enhancing, dont know about crack. As long as you get a release of catecholamines, like noradrenaline, adrenaline etc they can def be perfomance enhancing. Fight without fear, not feeling tired, how will that look like? You look like a champ. Its performing enhancing of the worst kind i will tell ya.
                                                        Comment
                                                        • JIBBBY
                                                          SBR Aristocracy
                                                          • 12-10-09
                                                          • 83686

                                                          #553
                                                          Originally posted by bjpenn85
                                                          cocaine is performance enhancing, dont know about crack. As long as you get a release of catecholamines, like noradrenaline, adrenaline etc they can def be perfomance enhancing. Fight without fear, not feeling tired, how will that look like? You look like a champ. Its performing enhancing of the worst kind i will tell ya.
                                                          Crack is cocaine.. Same thing... This was the machine he lifted in the back of my truck with out the benches.. Something like this is what I had on my back porch which I worked out on all the time...

                                                          Yes my 150 pound Mexican friend managed to get a grip lift and muscle it in the back of my open bed truck by himself.. Weighs about 600 pounds if I had to guess.. I don't know anyone or even power lifters that could do that today... Blows my mind to think back..

                                                          Last edited by JIBBBY; 05-16-17, 12:45 AM.
                                                          Comment
                                                          • firekillex
                                                            SBR Hall of Famer
                                                            • 09-18-13
                                                            • 6420

                                                            #554
                                                            jon jones wasnt smoking crack the hours before fighting in the UFC lol.........
                                                            he was drinking on weekends and doing cocaine while drinking , its a common thing
                                                            it would only hinder his performances , snorting cocaine will make you stay up all night and have terrible sleeps , which would be negative towards his recovery ( which is extremely key for athletes )

                                                            i could maybe buy your thing about some random crackhead being able to lift a heavy weight when super high off crack in the moment , like a mother whos kid is about to be crushed by a car and she picks it up for 5 seconds... But that strength wont last 25 minutes, some crackhead isnt throwing 100lb dumbells around for a full hour workout he would be dead after one huge push of strength ....

                                                            Ive seen and myself fought/wrestled guys on drugs just being out at bars and 90%+ of the time they get their asses kicked , to say Jon jones smoked crack and it made him better in the cage with super human strength is like saying Kelvin Gastelum smoking weed before fights turned him into spiderman and he could slow down time


                                                            and snorting cocaine isnt the same as smoking crack , thats like saying popping oxy pills is the same as shooting heroine
                                                            Comment
                                                            • bjpenn85
                                                              SBR Hall of Famer
                                                              • 02-17-11
                                                              • 5059

                                                              #555
                                                              I can def see the advantages with using cocaine in an mma fight, but i doubt that its a preferred drug for a bunch of reasons. I see a lot of the downsides as well though. The doses needs to be accurate and individualized its not very likely that jones has used cocaine to become a better fighter. Probably 0 chance. Testosterone is way better drug on many levels. Neurotransmitter works as NOS , short term like fueling of gas. Taking teststerone builds strength, muscles, probably confidence, placebo, everything. Norwegian scientist found out you produce new muscle cells, that you will keep and can take advantage of the rest of your life from only one cycle of testosterone. Old news, but yeah. Cocaine is not a preferred drug compared to other drugs.
                                                              Comment
                                                              • JIBBBY
                                                                SBR Aristocracy
                                                                • 12-10-09
                                                                • 83686

                                                                #556
                                                                ^ Well, I just know what I experienced with a crack smoker.. Not an expert on drug enhancement though so I'm sure that doesn't happen for every drug user. For some it does though.. Total enhancer.... Most crack heads I'm sure are sloths and can't lift the toilet seat while high.. Some people get jacked up off it as well.. Meth as well.

                                                                To think Lamar Odom or Jon Jones wasn't effected by using Crack cocaine to enhance their training sessions and practices is something that could seriously be considered.. Did they hit the crack pipe before games and fights I highly doubt as well.. Still you never know, during a quick bathroom break? Especially for Lamar Odom.. It's been told Lamar was smoking thru his entire NBA career so who frigg'n knows???

                                                                It does give you a fearless approach, or I don't give a crap attitude though.. That alone could have added Jon Jones mentally in fights even when not high.. Or how about when you are craving it and then go into a fight..

                                                                So many what ifs to consider when an athlete has a Crack cocaine habit but still performs well..
                                                                Comment
                                                                • NUTSonYAchin
                                                                  SBR Sharp
                                                                  • 05-08-17
                                                                  • 337

                                                                  #557
                                                                  Jon Jones is forever the GOAT til he loses
                                                                  Comment
                                                                  • NUTSonYAchin
                                                                    SBR Sharp
                                                                    • 05-08-17
                                                                    • 337

                                                                    #558
                                                                    Comment
                                                                    • JIBBBY
                                                                      SBR Aristocracy
                                                                      • 12-10-09
                                                                      • 83686

                                                                      #559
                                                                      Comment
                                                                      • Thor4140
                                                                        SBR Posting Legend
                                                                        • 02-09-08
                                                                        • 22296

                                                                        #560
                                                                        Originally posted by firekillex
                                                                        styles make fights and jones wanted some ring time since he was off so long
                                                                        he will come in versus DC a guy he hates and will not screw around in camp , he knows he needs to beat DC
                                                                        people saying he was on steroids 100% but he was caught with Off brand dick pills which are known and proven to have traces of steroids in them so its not like he was 100% on steroids, he has every advantage over Cormier in MMA aspects and Cormier is super super injury prone plus hes only getting older while Jones is just hitting his prime.... Wouldnt be surprised to see Jones get a submission here, but ill prob play UD as well....

                                                                        comparing a Rumble whos a power puncher who is known to give up in hard situations and had one foot out the door in his new career to a GOAT in Jones whos proven he doesnt give up in fights ( gustaffson ) is like comparing apples to oranges
                                                                        His brothers get caught all the time using roids but Jon is just using dik pills. GTFO of here with that silly shit. Jones was caught earlier for roids.
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