1. 01-30-12 08:16 PM #71
    Vitooch
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    I can't consider a fighter whose best MMA win is Shamar Bailey underrated.
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  2. 01-30-12 08:31 PM #72
    gabe
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vitooch View Post
    I can't consider a fighter whose best MMA win is Shamar Bailey underrated.
    He also beat a tough guy in Chuck O'Neill and hasn't faced anybody but Che Mills. (Who I had as a lock against Cope.) This is the second official fight he is getting where he has a chance. He didn't stand a chance against Mills, but he's got a very good chance against Brown, IMO.

    He wouldn't be underrated as a big underdog against Brian Ebersole or Rory MacDonald, but he surely is underrated as a big dog against Matt Brown. His speed + TDD + striking/combos is too much for Brown to keep up with for three rounds.
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  3. 01-30-12 08:35 PM #73
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  4. 01-30-12 08:40 PM #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by gabe View Post
    He also beat a tough guy in Chuck O'Neill and hasn't faced anybody but Che Mills. (Who I had as a lock against Cope.) This is the second official fight he is getting where he has a chance. He didn't stand a chance against Mills, but he's got a very good chance against Brown, IMO.

    He wouldn't be underrated as a big underdog against Brian Ebersole or Rory MacDonald, but he surely is underrated as a big dog against Matt Brown. His speed + TDD + striking/combos is too much for Brown to keep up with for three rounds.
    From your mouth to Kalikas ears.
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  5. 01-30-12 08:42 PM #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by NunyaBidness View Post
    From your mouth to Kalikas ears.
    Cope is a good play as a big dog, so I hope Kalikas listens and releases him at +450!!
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  6. 01-30-12 08:47 PM #76
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    condit beats diaz.this will be a war.
    country beats glass jaws fabricio
    kos wins.
    barao wins an easy fight.
    awesome card cant wait.
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  7. 01-30-12 08:58 PM #77
    Vitooch
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    Quote Originally Posted by gabe View Post
    He also beat a tough guy in Chuck O'Neill and hasn't faced anybody but Che Mills. (Who I had as a lock against Cope.) This is the second official fight he is getting where he has a chance. He didn't stand a chance against Mills, but he's got a very good chance against Brown, IMO.

    He wouldn't be underrated as a big underdog against Brian Ebersole or Rory MacDonald, but he surely is underrated as a big dog against Matt Brown. His speed + TDD + striking/combos is too much for Brown to keep up with for three rounds.
    I see where you're coming from. Brown shouldn't really be a huge favorite against anyone. But, Chris Cope, eh I'm just not buying into that play. So if Kalikas is watching, hopefully he puts Gabe's analysis into account more than mine haha.
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  8. 01-30-12 09:08 PM #78
    gabe
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vitooch View Post
    I see where you're coming from. Brown shouldn't really be a huge favorite against anyone. But, Chris Cope, eh I'm just not buying into that play. So if Kalikas is watching, hopefully he puts Gabe's analysis into account more than mine haha.
    and keep in mind Brown has been fading more and more with every match-up... I had him as a lock against John Howard and was confident in that play, but don't feel confident backing him here. It's the same situation, though. Job was on the line then, and it's likely on the line now. Cope will likely be cut, too, if he loses. But he might get another shot, 'cos he's considered a fan favorite.

    Not saying Cope is surely to beat Brown, but I like his chances and would consider him a GREAT play at a nice dog price.
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  9. 01-30-12 09:32 PM #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by gabe View Post
    and keep in mind Brown has been fading more and more with every match-up... I had him as a lock against John Howard and was confident in that play, but don't feel confident backing him here. It's the same situation, though. Job was on the line then, and it's likely on the line now. Cope will likely be cut, too, if he loses. But he might get another shot, 'cos he's considered a fan favorite.

    Not saying Cope is surely to beat Brown, but I like his chances and would consider him a GREAT play at a nice dog price.
    Fading more and more? His last fight was a loss to Seth Baczynski who is significantly better than Cope. Before that, he as you mentioned, beat John Howard is much more dangerous than Cope IMO. His previous losses were all to fighters significantly tougher than Cope (Brian Foster, Chris Lytle, Stun Gun). See a trend? Dude has been facing very good fighters, and while he hasn't found any sort of consistent success, they are still very tough fighters.
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  10. 01-30-12 09:35 PM #80
    gabe
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vitooch View Post
    Fading more and more? His last fight was a loss to Seth Baczynski who is significantly better than Cope. Before that, he as you mentioned, beat John Howard is much more dangerous than Cope IMO. His previous losses were all to fighters significantly tougher than Cope (Brian Foster, Chris Lytle, Stun Gun). See a trend? Dude has been facing very good fighters, and while he hasn't found any sort of consistent success, they are still very tough fighters.
    He was very unimpressive in his win against John Howard and didn't look too good against Seth.
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  11. 01-30-12 09:53 PM #81
    Vitooch
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    But Chris Cope is vastly inferior to both of those fighters.
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  12. 01-30-12 11:13 PM #82
    gabe
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vitooch View Post
    But Chris Cope is vastly inferior to both of those fighters.
    Just because Seth B is better than Chris Cope doesn't mean Cope doesn't stand a chance against the fading Matt Brown.
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  13. 01-30-12 11:29 PM #83
    Educ8d Degener8
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    Matt Brown has looked like recently, and he doesn't seem into fighting, sad to say...
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  14. 01-30-12 11:34 PM #84
    gabe
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    Quote Originally Posted by Educ8d Degener8 View Post
    Matt Brown has looked like recently, and he doesn't seem into fighting, sad to say...
    That's where I'm coming from. The dude is all about the paycheck right now. But don't get me wrong, he will do everything he can to secure his job to make sure those checks keep coming. But I just think his poor cardio compared to Cope's good cardio, strikes/leg-kicks/combos, movement, and takedown defense spells trouble for him.
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  15. 01-31-12 02:03 AM #85
    Vaughany
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    Quote Originally Posted by gabe View Post
    Chris Cope would be a great play as a big underdog. Only way Matt Brown wins is if he takes Cope down and controls him. Cope has great TDD. Shamar Bailey, a talented wrestler, couldn't get 1 takedown on Cope. Cope has really nice combinations. He has good cardio, whereas Brown has terrible cardio. Cope could easily win a decision here. He's being overlooked.
    When has this been evident brah?
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  16. 01-31-12 02:08 AM #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaughany View Post
    When has this been evident brah?
    His last fight, for example. Going into round 2, he looked like most do going into round 3.

    On that same note, Seth B was getting pretty tired, too.
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  17. 01-31-12 02:10 AM #87
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    P.S.- I love you, V-Money.
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  18. 01-31-12 02:59 AM #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by gabe View Post
    His last fight, for example. Going into round 2, he looked like most do going into round 3.

    On that same note, Seth B was getting pretty tired, too.
    Brown might not be the most athletically gifted, and he certainly doesn't have Ben Henderson like cardio, but his grittiness/determination are enough to push through 3 rounds at a good pace. He certainly doesnt have awful cardio like you've suggested. If you watch the James Wilks fight you'll see that it was his cardio and determination that allowed him to overwhelm Wilks in the third round and finish him.

    I don't think he'll necessarily need his cardio anyway, he could well come out all-guns-blazing like he did against Pete Sell and finish in the first round - this would be his best strategy IMO as Cope seems to get more comfortable as a fight goes on. Matt Brown usually starts out quite strong - he won the first rounds against Brian Foster and Chris Lytle before getting caught in the second.
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  19. 01-31-12 08:40 AM #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaughany View Post
    Brown might not be the most athletically gifted, and he certainly doesn't have Ben Henderson like cardio, but his grittiness/determination are enough to push through 3 rounds at a good pace. He certainly doesnt have awful cardio like you've suggested. If you watch the James Wilks fight you'll see that it was his cardio and determination that allowed him to overwhelm Wilks in the third round and finish him. I don't think he'll necessarily need his cardio anyway, he could well come out all-guns-blazing like he did against Pete Sell and finish in the first round - this would be his best strategy IMO as Cope seems to get more comfortable as a fight goes on. Matt Brown usually starts out quite strong - he won the first rounds against Brian Foster and Chris Lytle before getting caught in the second.
    I'm not saying his cardio wasn't good 5-10 years ago, I was referring to his past couple fights. He didn't look good going into round 2 against Seth and looked dead after the 3rd round against John Howard, where the whole fight he basically did a lay n pray.
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  20. 01-31-12 08:56 AM #90
    Beelzebubzy
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    Gabe, this play is for 32-0
    grabbed 1u on Kos at -247
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  21. 01-31-12 08:57 AM #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaughany View Post
    Brown might not be the most athletically gifted, and he certainly doesn't have Ben Henderson like cardio, but his grittiness/determination are enough to push through 3 rounds at a good pace. He certainly doesnt have awful cardio like you've suggested. If you watch the James Wilks fight you'll see that it was his cardio and determination that allowed him to overwhelm Wilks in the third round and finish him.

    I don't think he'll necessarily need his cardio anyway, he could well come out all-guns-blazing like he did against Pete Sell and finish in the first round - this would be his best strategy IMO as Cope seems to get more comfortable as a fight goes on. Matt Brown usually starts out quite strong - he won the first rounds against Brian Foster and Chris Lytle before getting caught in the second.
    And the John Howard fight.
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  22. 01-31-12 09:02 AM #92
    gabe
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beelzebubzy View Post
    Gabe, this play is for 32-0
    grabbed 1u on Kos at -247


    Both Kos and Barao at -240 right now!
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  23. 01-31-12 09:23 AM #93
    Vaughany
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    Quote Originally Posted by gabe View Post
    I'm not saying his cardio wasn't good 5-10 years ago, I was referring to his past couple fights. He didn't look good going into round 2 against Seth and looked dead after the 3rd round against John Howard, where the whole fight he basically did a lay n pray.
    The Wilks fight was like 2 and a half years ago! Whole fight did lay n pray? I dont remember Brown getting any takaedowns in first round, he went for a couple and got a couple in the second but certainly didnt "lay n pray", and in third it was Howard who got takedowns
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  24. 01-31-12 09:31 AM #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaughany View Post
    The Wilks fight was like 2 and a half years ago! Whole fight did lay n pray? I dont remember Brown getting any takaedowns in first round, he went for a couple and got a couple in the second but certainly didnt "lay n pray", and in third it was Howard who got takedowns
    I haven't seen the fight since it aired, but I remember Brown being boring and mostly holding on to Howard. When being asked about it after, he said he was just trying to secure his job and thought that was his best way to get a W.

    Anyway- all's I'm saying is that I don't think Matt Brown is a great play as a big favorite whereas the majority here think he is.

    Should Matt Brown be able to defeat Chris Cope? Yes.
    Does Chris Cope have what it takes to get a W over Matt Brown? Yes. I don't doubt it. If he goes in with a solid game plan, I don't doubt that he could walk out with a win.
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  25. 01-31-12 09:44 AM #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by gabe View Post
    I haven't seen the fight since it aired, but I remember Brown being boring and mostly holding on to Howard. When being asked about it after, he said he was just trying to secure his job and thought that was his best way to get a W.

    Anyway- all's I'm saying is that I don't think Matt Brown is a great play as a big favorite whereas the majority here think he is.

    Should Matt Brown be able to defeat Chris Cope? Yes.
    Does Chris Cope have what it takes to get a W over Matt Brown? Yes. I don't doubt it. If he goes in with a solid game plan, I don't doubt that he could walk out with a win.
    He is fighting for his job here again.
    Dana White is a big fan of Matt Brown because he constantly brings it and steps in on late notice. He is a company man.
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  26. 01-31-12 09:48 AM #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beelzebubzy View Post
    He is fighting for his job here again. Dana White is a big fan of Matt Brown because he constantly brings it and steps in on late notice. He is a company man.
    Yeah, I mentioned he'd likely be cut after this fight.

    Every time? I don't think he brought it against Howard. Boring fight. It was a lock, I was happy as long as he was winning.
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  27. 01-31-12 09:54 AM #97
    Vaughany
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    Whoever loses this is 99% getting cut. The guys from tht Lesnar/JDS season of TUF were all pretty average - was probably the weakest season I've seen in terms of level of competition. They are gradually being exposed in their UFC fights - Harvison has already gone after it was clear he isnt UFC level, and Shamar followed him. Fast Eddy is hanging on because he steps in on short notice and has half-decent wrestling, and I believe Cope will be next to be fully exposed and released.
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  28. 01-31-12 09:59 AM #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaughany View Post
    Whoever loses this is 99% getting cut. The guys from tht Lesnar/JDS season of TUF were all pretty average - was probably the weakest season I've seen in terms of level of competition. They are gradually being exposed in their UFC fights - Harvison has already gone after it was clear he isnt UFC level, and Shamar followed him. Fast Eddy is hanging on because he steps in on short notice and has half-decent wrestling, and I believe Cope will be next to be fully exposed and released.
    Cope and Edwards have a lot of heart. That really counts.

    Yeah, it was clear to me Clay and Shamar were not UFC level - I made a fortune fading their 4 fights.

    Cope and Edwards can hang in there with low-mid tier fighters in the UFC, I think. Cope fighting Mills was a joke, it was a steal getting Mills at -220. Should have been -600. Mills is elite, IMO. He didn't stand a chance against a guy like Mills, but I think he's got a shot against todays aging Matt Brown.
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  29. 01-31-12 10:06 AM #99
    gabe
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    if you've got netflix, gimme some streaming recommendations.

    i'd recommend:
    street thief (shot like a documentary, so good)
    leaves of grass
    red state (kevin smith's horror flick)
    wristcutters
    paper man
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  30. 01-31-12 10:33 AM #100
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    red state is good, not as great as it was hyped to be though. Wristcutters sounds fun
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  31. 01-31-12 10:34 AM #101
    Vaughany
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    Quote Originally Posted by gabe View Post
    Cope and Edwards have a lot of heart. That really counts.

    Yeah, it was clear to me Clay and Shamar were not UFC level - I made a fortune fading their 4 fights.

    Cope and Edwards can hang in there with low-mid tier fighters in the UFC, I think. Cope fighting Mills was a joke, it was a steal getting Mills at -220. Should have been -600. Mills is elite, IMO. He didn't stand a chance against a guy like Mills, but I think he's got a shot against todays aging Matt Brown.
    Guess we'll see how elite he is against Rory Mac
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  32. 01-31-12 10:40 AM #102
    gabe
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaughany View Post
    Guess we'll see how elite he is against Rory Mac
    Yeah, gotta see if he'll be able to keep it standing.
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  33. 01-31-12 10:53 AM #103
    Vaughany
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    Quote Originally Posted by gabe View Post
    Yeah, gotta see if he'll be able to keep it standing.
    I wouldn't say he has a definite edge even if he does keep it standing tho
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  34. 01-31-12 10:55 AM #104
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    Should Thompson be a huge favorite over Stiggen?
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  35. 01-31-12 10:58 AM #105
    gabe
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaughany View Post
    I wouldn't say he has a definite edge even if he does keep it standing tho
    Not definite, no. We'll know where he stands after that fight.
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