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can rick story take down thiago alves?
pretty much the million dollar question.
thoughts?
thiago has so many matches against wrestlers now and while fitch and gsp made it look easy, im wodering if its improved enough to stop story.
he looked so good agasint kos and hughes before the title shot...
I think it will be difficult to consistently take thiago down, but he can make it. The problem is, if he cant take down thiago down and hold him there, story will have to trade for three rounds. He might be able to stall alves against the fence also. But on thing is crystal clear,Rick story is a very mentally and physically strong fighter that bully people, and it is hard to imagine him lose fights, even against alves.
Even if he can get him down he wont keep him there. I just can't help but recall the Osipzak and Hathaway fights wer he struggled, many think Osipczak won rounds 2 and 3.
i dont remember those fights, but wouldn't last win against Hendricks remove those memories?
For sure, and brutally rolling through Hazelett doesn't hurt, either. I agree with everything else you said as well, except I don't think he'll look to neutralize Alves, but to give him a war.Originally Posted by bjpenn85
imo their toughness/heart etc is equal, or Story having a slight edge, imo. Standing technique & lethality of course I give Alves a moderate edge but not how the line suggests when it comes to chances of who can win this fight - Story can absorb punishment to get it down or get a flurry off, and on average keep 2 rounds close enough with wrestling & effective aggression (GSP aside, Alves has never been stalked or immediately sought, Story will try).
It was Story who called Alves out, and reading his comments since then are enough to tell you he's really focused and determined for the win. Anyone's fight imo.
Considering Story took Hendricks down about once during the entire fight, I'd say no. Story got the nod because of his aggression in the stand-up. Oh, and for the record, Hendricks actually deserved to win that fight (at the very least it should have been a 29-29 draw).i dont remember those fights, but wouldn't last win against Hendricks remove those memories?
I think the line is accurate. Here's why:imo their toughness/heart etc is equal, or Story having a slight edge, imo. Standing technique & lethality of course I give Alves a moderate edge but not how the line suggests when it comes to chances of who can win this fight -
Koscheck couldn't do it. I see no reason to believe that Story can, considering he's inferior to Koscheck in both wrestling ability and technical striking ability. Story has power, but it'll take more than brute strength to stifle Alves, as the Alves/Howard fight proved.Story can absorb punishment to get it down or get a flurry off
A more realistic outcome is Story getting his takedowns stuffed, and then getting tagged on the feet. Though he's since improved, let's not forget that Story was once largely out-boxed and out-wrestled by John Hathaway (who is not a great striker or wrestler). Also, as Vaughany pointed out, Story had major problems with Nick Osipczak. While Osipczak is a sneaky good wrestler, he's still not outstanding.and on average keep 2 rounds close enough with wrestling & effective aggression (GSP aside, Alves has never been stalked or immediately sought, Story will try).
Words are cheap. Let's stick to skills.It was Story who called Alves out, and reading his comments since then are enough to tell you he's really focused and determined for the win. Anyone's fight imo.
Alves + Dolce =$$
Story isn't going to be able handle Alve's tight/straight punches down the middle. Gonna get countered all night with those looping shots he throws.
Last edited by illmatick; 05-05-11 at 11:03 AM.
Alves + Dolce =$
Story isn't going to be able handle Alve's tight/straight punches down the middle. Gonna get countered all night with those looping shots he throws.
money signs are never enough, you need someAlves + Dolce =$
Story isn't going to be able handle Alve's tight/straight punches down the middle. Gonna get countered all night with those looping shots he throws.
you're confused.money signs are never enough, you need some
hahaha
haha these things are cursed.money signs are never enough, you need some
oh well.
If Story can pull it off he will have won 6 straight with a win over Alves, that would put him into title contention, but i lean towards Alves.
You only lean towards Alves. I whip my hair back and forth at Alves.
The Dolce diet has made Alves a beast.
careful Alves might use it to make a wig
Hendricks is an elite college & MMA wrestler and couldn't do a thing to Story. That puts Story's wrestling above Johny's, or evens at worst.
Not this shit again...
Maybe your money was on Hendrick's, or you didn't see the fight, or (at the very least) it might be time to consider these perceived robberies of yours as hindrances to your technique.
Koscheck also took the fight on short notice. He also couldn't beat Paulo Thiago at striking, he also cheated like **** to beat Johnson and couldn't (effectively) cheat against Alves.
Given Story's performance against a well decorated D1/high level MMA wrestler in Hendricks, what do you have on Koscheck's wrestling that makes Story's inferior? The Daley hold down? Bettors went into that fight knowing Daley's wrestling abilities (or lack thereof). I would say Kos is more explosive but Story isn't moderately off - defensively or offensively...not when you consider the progression he's shown.
As for "technical striking ability"....
Kos KO'd Yoshida, TKO'd Hazelett, & TKO'd Trigg. Knockout dummies. So tell me about Kos's "superior" striking technique - that tired looping right that's only tricked Diego (back in the day) and these knockout dummies? What else? He was scared to death of striking with Daley and the only standing value he showed against Johnson & Alves were eye pokes.
I'm not saying Story is the better striker but short notice Koscheck is no metric here.
Let's not. I mean that's like saying "Let's stick to records". Or "styles", or anything. I was just counting off another variable - regardless of what your (weak) elitist wannabe opinion thinks of its importance...the guy is motivated and thinks he can beat Alves. This doesn't prove he can beat Alves but it's good to know and actually, all of his comments on the fight are interesting to consider no matter what side your money's on.
But you would know that.
Last edited by MMAdisciple; 05-05-11 at 07:49 PM.
Story can and he will. The question is how long can he keep him down? I'm not sure there b/c Thiago is strong and has a great ability to get back on his feet. Story is a beast though and I think he should only be a slight dog here. At first, I really liked Alves here... but after watching some tape on both guys, I like Story much more at his current +175.
the thing about hendricks is that he is SMALL for welterweight. i dont know what that fight shows about rick because hendricks wrestled at 160lbs in college.
hathaway is a strong guy and he showed what muscle can do against story. i think thiago's strength might keep him standing...
the odds though just make it hard for me to pick. if thiago and story were even i would go hard on alves for sure... btu the -200 is just questionable for me.
Your stupidity continues to surprise me. You can't say one fighter's wrestling is wholly superior to another's in this instance because defensive wrestling and offensive wrestling are two entirely different skills. Story's defensive wrestling mostly neutralised Hendricks' offensive wrestling in that fight, but Story's defensive wrestling isn't even relevant in this discussion! We're talking about the Alves fight, which means Story's offensive wrestling is what's relevant. As Story only took Hendricks down one time (for about three seconds), the Hendricks fight is hardly a good source of analysing Story's offensive wrestling. You really don't understand this sport, do you?Hendricks is an elite college & MMA wrestler and couldn't do a thing to Story. That puts Story's wrestling above Johny's, or evens at worst.
Hindrances to my technique? What are you smoking? I didn't even place a bet on that fight. Also, I didn't say it was a robbery - what I actually said was Hendricks deserved the decision. There's a difference between a robbery and a close fight which the other person deserved to win. For example, Garica/Phan was a robbery, Stout/Wiman was a close fight which the other person deserved to win. Stop misquoting and learn to distinguish between the two.Not this shit again...
Maybe your money was on Hendrick's, or you didn't see the fight, or (at the very least) it might be time to consider these perceived robberies of yours as hindrances to your technique.
For the record, some of the reputable websites carrying out play by plays for that event scored the fight 29-28 in favour of Hendricks, so I'm not alone on that opinion.
First of all, how the hell is Diego relevant to this discussion? I bet you're the kind of ignorant fan who actually think Sanchez is a good offensive wrestler. The fact of the matter is that Sanchez has historically had a lot of trouble with taking guys down. He even struggled to take down John Alessio (only took him down once in the third round), and Alessio is by no means regarded as having good takedown defense.so? Diego was (yet more recently and thoroughly) too.
Secondly, the manner in which Hathaway beat Sanchez was completely different to the manner in which he beat Story. Hathaway took Diego down about once during the whole fight; he won by sprawling on Sanchez's laboured takedowns and using his reach to get the better of the exchanges on the feet (which isn't a particularly impressive accomplishment when you consider Sanchez's stand-up skills). However, in the Story fight, Hathaway won predominantly by using his offensive wrestling and ground control; he took Story down on multiple occasions, and achieved mount position twice.
Basically, you made a completely inane comparison. Congratulations.
Definitely not offensively (which, once again, is what's relevant in an Alves fight). Compare the people Koscheck has been able to take down with the people Story has been able to take down. Note the obvious disparity.I would say Kos is more explosive but Story isn't moderately off - defensively or offensively...not when you consider the progression he's shown.
He has an over-reliance on the overhand right but generally speaking he's a cleaner, straighter puncher than Story is. He's more inclined to vary his attack and throw kicks, as well. Koscheck's TKO wins aren't over the greatest of competition, but that doesn't mean he deserves to be regarded as some kind of striking scrub. Maybe you should try paying attention to what actually happens during the fights, as opposed to clinging onto a fighter's record as the sole indicator of their skill.Kos KO'd Yoshida, TKO'd Hazelett, & TKO'd Trigg. Knockout dummies. So tell me about Kos's "superior" striking technique - that tired looping right that's only tricked Diego (back in the day) and these knockout dummies? What else? He was scared to death of striking with Daley and the only standing value he showed against Johnson & Alves were eye pokes.
I'm not saying Story is the better striker but short notice Koscheck is no metric here.
Also, it's worth noting that Story's only remotely notable TKO win is over the aforementioned "knockout dummy" (your words, not mine) Dustin Hazelett. I hope he tracks you down and snaps your arm in half for calling him that. Don't be so disrespectful.
No, it's like saying "let's stick to skills". It means we should stick to the fighters' individual abilities, and how those abilities match up against one another. It's a very simple concept which is fundamental to the sport but you can't seem to grasp it.I mean that's like saying "Let's stick to records". Or "styles", or anything.
You're a bigger moron than I initially thought if you seriously believe that a guy's pre-fight talk about being "motivated" or "focused" will have any implications on the fight itself. Do you honestly expect him to go around saying he's unfocused, or unmotivated? Stop wasting my time with your nonsense.Let's not. I mean that's like saying "Let's stick to records". Or "styles", or anything. I was just counting off another variable - regardless of what your (weak) elitist wannabe opinion thinks of its importance...the guy is motivated and thinks he can beat Alves. This doesn't prove he can beat Alves but it's good to know and actually, all of his comments on the fight are interesting to consider no matter what side your money's on.
I find it amusing that you try to defend your argument here (you failed horribly, by the way), yet you ran away from my thread because you were getting ridiculed by numerous posters. Whatever modicum of respect anyone had for you on this board has vanished. You're a laughingstock.
Last edited by Ladle; 05-06-11 at 11:34 AM.
i like story at +175...and i like him even more at +200(which i think we`ll have a chance to see the closer we get to post time)....
i like the lefty stance,the wrestling background,the strength and toughness and the guy can sub you if you give him the opportunity...a sub would not be out of the question...
his fight vs foster made me a believer...and the hathaway loss was ??? imo....
i like the style match-up.....i think we have a wrestler here that might actually try and wrestle.....theres always the "alves making weight issue" and i think he might struggle trying to bully story(story wrestled in college at 184...he`s not a little guy).....theres` a real chance if he doesn`t catch a knee,that story could put alves on his back for long periods....
i`m giving story the benefit of the doubt that he`s smarter than koscheck(which isn`t saying much) and tries to make this a ground fight........
we`ll see...i really expect these odds to move....
Last edited by rocky mattioli; 05-06-11 at 09:01 AM.
I haven't reviewed enough footage to make a cap lean here, but here's what I do know...
This fight will reveal whether Story deserves the steam (hype) he's been getting lately. He's on a nice run, no doubt, but the string of opponents he has defeated doesn't really impress me... and two of those wins were splits over the likes of Lennox and Osipczak. Alves is on a whole nother level than the guys Story has beat recently (though, I recognize he has beaten Ellenberger and Paulino in the past; and fighters surely evolve, etc).
The hype with Story reminds me a bit of the love-fest John Hathaway was getting there for a bit as the next contender, then he got derailed by Pyle, and recently looked for sh*t against McCray. I think sometimes we fans are so eager to create a new contender, we lose sight of a fighter's true standing relative to his skill set and the level of competition he has fought.
That being said, I'm not trying to p*ss in any you guys' cereal, especially Story backers. So GL to all regardless of your side, as I still have yet to get around to tape here...
ps. Rocky -- weight cutting for Alves should be a non-issue moving forward if he's sticking with Dolce.
There's a reason why Brian Foster was tapped by Rick Story (and Chris Lytle) in the fashion that he was. For someone so powerful and so offensively gifted, he's extremely porous defensively, particularly on the ground. We assume that offensive and defensive skill go hand in hand - unlike football where you can have a great offense and a poor defense. Yet some fighters don't conform to this; they can throw with power and good technique, but defending themselves just doesn't come as readily. Foster falls into that category. Re-watch the Matt Brown fight for affirmation of this: the minute Foster ended up on his back he showed a white belt level of defense and was mounted almost instantaneously.
I think this could turn out to be a fantastic comparison.
Yeah Foster is called a "freestyle" fighter for a reason! He is rather gung-ho in his style and as you say his defence is not impressive, partly why the Matt Brown match-up was so good because both guys don't know the meaning of conservative fighting.
i just have never been sold on alves...the guy is 18-7...that`s 7 losses.....granted,he`s fought names,but guys with real wrestling chops can give him difficulty.. i`m not counting hughes and parisyan because both these guys were on the slide when they faced alves.....
i`ve watched alves get discouraged if things don`t go well from the jump...he`s not mentally tough.....and i`m hoping that story can take him down and do a little damage early....
i always felt that alves was one of those guys without a weight class he feels comfortable with....
also,the worry for me is that i have a suspicion that alves dabbles in p.e.d.`s....i know theres no proof....i know it`s a bit unfair to throw that out there...but it`s just a gut that i`ve always had...
feel free to discount it....just something i`ve always suspected...
looking forward to the fight...should be interesting...
I feel the anger.
and
I'm not here for friendships
Alves probably wins but all the value is on story at this line. Way to chalky to lay anything on Alves.
I feel you know that every single point you made got proved wrong, and you have no rebuttal. Story of your life.
It was hard for me to be concise and kind when you said so many absurd things which highlighted a glaring lack of MMA knowledge.(long winded, passive aggressive rant)
Five different posters (not including myself) ridiculed you for your absolutely ridiculous posts in my thread. But, of course, you know that. You obviously checked and then went back to cowering beneath your keyboard.I'm not here for friendships
Last edited by Ladle; 05-07-11 at 06:56 AM.
its going to be a good match up but i think story gets the w
rick story + money wiill win
As confident as u wer with Shields Philly?!
ha ha, no not as confidentAs confident as u wer with Shields Philly?!
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