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I understand how it works which is why I said it's a great idea. The problem is that Wagerr can create money out of thin air, they most likely control a majority of the coins and have control of the chain. Can you prove otherwise? Are you part of the ownership or a dev?Originally Posted by sss_av_ltd
There's an order book. You can see it.
I've had 50K WGR orders fill overnight on many occasion on Ionomy. Although I haven't used it I've heard liquidity is best on Binance Smart Chain.
Wagerr fills the orders and Ionomy works as the middleman. Wagerr is the only one at this point that would fill that large of an amount. Exchange $50k USD for $50k worth of WGR tokens. If you place an even bet and win you now have $100k in WGR tokens. Then you have to trust Wagerr to pay you if you want to cash out. For the most part, it works the same as all other centralized books as far as the player is concerned.
Last edited by raiders72001; 09-18-21 at 04:11 AM.
I don't know anything about the team at Wagerr so I'm not saying this is a good book or bad book. I'm just posting information. Here's a price history of the coin for the last year.
Here's why no limit makes no sense at Wagerr. I place a buy order in at Ionomy for $1m worth of WGR tokens. WGR is going to fill that order. They are going to take my $1m USD and I'm getting back tokens. I place a bet and win $1m worth of tokens. When I try to sell those $2m worth of tokens they aren't going to be worth a thing. No one is going to fill it at the same price. I'm out $2m ($1m deposit + $1m winnings) less what little I'll get back selling the tokens.
Last edited by raiders72001; 09-18-21 at 04:50 AM.
I get what you are saying there is an obvious liquidity issue at large volumes. Overtime I believe that’s get better and bettors can lean harder into using the chain. I’m not sure why you think wagerr fills the order. The coins trade freely across multiple exchanges. You’re ignoring people that bet and move money already. But you will have a liquidity issue with a million dollars worth of coins no doubt. At the risk of sounding repetitive the point remains that wagerr can handle No limit betting.
And you keep saying that wagerr owns the majority of coins and runs the chain. I wrote above that 90% of coins are in public hands. 85% were sold in the ICO. And then 3000 node operators run the chain. They don’t control the chain.
Go_Rilla said a $50k order was matched overnight at Ionomy. You are saying it wasn't Wagerr? Hashing power, not number of nodes determines who controls the chain. Can you tell me where I can find wallet holders and amount staked. Has the chain ever been rolled back, forked or taken offline? In your first post you say, "we" and "our". I assume that you are part of the team.
Why do you say Wagerr can handle no limit betting? They can handle paying tokens but that isn't going to equate to dollars if a guy wins $1m today. It won't even come close. Do you disagree?
Last edited by raiders72001; 09-18-21 at 11:39 AM.
sss - what you guys have done is magnificent. In your defense, what you are saying by being able to a no limit bet, that's assuming that the tokens could be sold for what they were bought for. This isn't the case at this time. I really don't want to keep digging deeper unless you are saying my assumptions are wrong.
Last edited by raiders72001; 09-18-21 at 12:11 PM.
Ionomy is just an exchange, so I'm assuming he put up a buy order and other people who hold sold their wagerr into his order. Not the team. Took a quick look on ionomy and there are about 600k worth of buy orders for wagger around .00000075 btc. Also appears people have been selling nonstop for the at least the last month.
I'm sure that Wagerr accepts orders for large amounts otherwise they would just sit there.
Last edited by raiders72001; 09-20-21 at 02:55 AM.
Ionomy not shown but that looks to be the middleman between player and book.
[QUOTE=raiders72001;30538570]Go_Rilla said a $50k order was matched overnight at Ionomy. You are saying it wasn't Wagerr? Hashing power, not number of nodes determines who controls the chain. Can you tell me where I can find wallet holders and amount staked. Has the chain ever been rolled back, forked or taken offline? In your first post you say, "we" and "our". I assume that you are part of the team.
I said a buy order for 50K of Wagerr coins which is around 1500 USD at the current price, lol I wish i was that rich to be buying 50K in USD at a time. Sorry for the confusion. Altought I remember many times this year between 100K and 200K USD daily of volume on binance smart chain.
Last edited by Go_Rilla; 09-19-21 at 03:20 AM.
The way I see it is the curent price looks like the bottom so the risk to get into it right now is low while the potential to go to a dollar and over is very likely knowing how well it works. That's my personal opinion and I may be wrong but only the future wiil tell. The biggest problem the project faces is marketing in my opinion because it is very grey area so they are very limited there. I think it will spread through word of mouth over time. I also appreciate you being unbiased and logical in your questions and not screaming scam like others that have never used it or researched it.I don't know anything about the team at Wagerr so I'm not saying this is a good book or bad book. I'm just posting information. Here's a price history of the coin for the last year.
Last edited by Go_Rilla; 09-19-21 at 03:16 AM.
I love crypto and DeFi and would like to see these guys succeed. Right now they are still a centralized book but they are on the right track. You can't beat the transparency of blockchain. Everything is out there for all of us to see.
Gorilla - I do want to mention one thing. No limit betting means we can all get stiffed because one person could crash the value of the coin. That is a reason to say scam.
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I was done reading this thread, and then I see raiders 72001 was posting in it and I had to read what he had to say.
I really appreciate the knowledge and passion you bring to the confluence of the crypto, defi, and betting worlds Raiders. Your ability to go deep and be open-minded contributes a lot to this forum.
Thanks bookie
I dont think I’m a stupid man and was an early adopter of crypto but I am having trouble understanding the concept. What hope do you have explaining this to the average bettor. Why exactly do we need a new type of coin to bet with and how is it different from betting with other crypto currencies ? I don’t understand how it is “no limit” but then you say someone else is matching your bet and it’s not wagercoin itself. So isn’t it just an exchange then ? Like fairlay but using a new coin for some reason. I just kind of browsed the thread so excuse my ignorance. Point is if I can’t figure it out after reading through these posts you have little to no hope with it catching on with the masses IMO. What are your competitive advantages exactly ? Don’t just say ‘no limit’. Any exchange can say that. If it’s about transparency who cares when has that ever been an issue in online sports betting ?
Fist off they assume that they will make money since their lines move on action and they want balanced action. That's the key to it all. I took a quick look and it looked liked Pinny's lines within a penny or two. I forget how much they said it takes to move the line. There were no soft lines in the NFL today. When you bet, you aren't betting against a person nor is money held in escrow. If you win, new tokens are created and you receive WGR tokens. If you lose a bet, those tokens are burnt and taken out of circulation. They don't want to create more coins than are burnt since that decreases the coins value. We all have skin in the game.
Last edited by raiders72001; 09-20-21 at 03:55 AM.
Their whole goal is to create a system that runs without human intervention. The problem occurs if bettors are winning. We all lose money.
Last edited by raiders72001; 09-19-21 at 06:20 PM.
Okay that makes some sense. Thank you.
It can't work as is. Imagine giving BW no limit on openers.
It has been working for 3 years and as development continues the project works better and better.
And if bettors are loosing we all make money it's like owning a small part of a sportsbook. What actually happens is that some loose and some win so in the end it evens out. With a lot of people betting the percentage of the vig that is burned should make it deflationary, that is the idea although right now it is mostly used by sharps that are banned or limited in other places and still the inflation rate is very small.
Last edited by Go_Rilla; 09-20-21 at 12:43 AM.
It works right now because Wagerr is a centralized sportsbook for the most part. Wagerr pays some of the winners with buy orders at exchanges. You have to sift through the smoke and mirrors. Most gamblers don't know about masternodes, oracles, staking and coin burns but do know you can't let someone max bet and get paid in a token for which there may be no value.
Last edited by raiders72001; 09-20-21 at 03:30 AM.
When sharps were beating up on Wagerr when their lines were softer, who do you think paid them?
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Million times this.
If/when sharps decide to come to Wagerr, they will drain the system pushing the WGR token into 0.00x area which cannot be stopped. Then the customers would lose 30%+ of their assets etc.
Having losing liquidity is great, but Wagerr is targeting "no limit, no restriction" betting, imagine having only winner for a month... it would surely be very destructive for Wagerr platform/project as if there is no limit for WGR minting, there is no limit how much the price can fall.
and I can't think of many books except for Pinny and Bookmaker that won't ban people. Those two books even have limits.
You seem to overestimate the ability of these sharps to consistently beat the odds that are set by billion dollar sportsbooks + the vig. Vegas wasn't built by winners. Maybe they can beat them for a couple of percent and thats's what the data shows on the blockchain, 2% inflation when the lines were soft and less than 1% after Wagerr improved their lines. There has been over 40 million USD bets paid in WGR coins, who do you think bets these amounts, I don't think it's average Joes. The sharps are there and the system can handle it.
Any book that gives no limit betting on openers will go bankrupt.
Raiders, this just isn't true. Where are you getting the centralized for the most part and Wagerr pays some of the winners through Ionomy?
I get you are helping to explain the risks but you are also making claims that aren't true. I mean two day ago you didn't know Ionomy existed and now its facilitating the book? I want to try and clear up this thread a little.
Firstly, The only part as I explained earlier of the system that remains centralized is the 'oracle', (the engine feeding the events, odds and results in). Which again looks like it won't be in 12-18 months. The rest of the chain is run by the nodes. By the public. I'm glad you got the correct info regarding wallets. Here is a link showing the distribution https://chainz.cryptoid.info/wgr/#!rich You have to ignore the first 2 addresses as the website incorrectly reads the chain but you can see there that it is well distributed.
I get many in this forum are of the opinion that the model wont work. My rebuttal is that we have sharps on the system now. How do we know this? We talk to them, they are in the community. Of course everyone around Wagerr understands that if you mint too much you devalue the currency, we spell it out in the documentation. Again there is a risk of using WGR, if you are not comfortable with that do not use it. Yes, in the earlier years there was opportunities for bettors to take advantage of the chain. and Good on them, they adopted this early and they were rewarded. The mint rate as of today, YTD is 0.08%, hardly close to what many would think. And Wagerr has more upgrades in line that will enable it to better manage the risk and introduce things like casino games that will have a net guarantee burn.
Still if the mint is a concern for you, by all means watch, wait it out, Wagerr will still be around and as the betting volume increases and WGR gets burned I'd hope you get more comfort around the model. Remind yourself that Wagerr has been live for 3 years now and it's still going.
People also using it understand that liquidity on the exchanges could be better. And yes that practically should make it difficult for someone to bet very large amounts, but at the risk of sounding repetitive. Wagerr is built for no limits, it will never cut you off nor limit you. See point above for the risks associated with this. (we get it). As a counter what people are doing in the community is hedgin their WGR out. They are betting on one side of a market on WGR with the intention to lose and on the other side of the market in another book thereby bypassing the exchange altogether. I believe that as the book has more betting volume, liquidity will improve and bettors will be able to lean into it more with confidence.
Ultimately, if you have a good experience with your current books by all means continue to use them. If you don't, if you don't have access to a book or If the idea of a book where the users are the house interests you feel free to ask questions about Wagerr. I will even let you try it for free, so that there is no risk for you to take.
This is live and in the last week while we have been talking about it not working there has been ~$400k USD bet through the system. How do I know? Because it is the most transparent book out there. explorer.wagerr.com
@Raiders, I haven't hit my 40 post limit so cannot respond to you.
The point of the original post was to introduce this. It's clear to me that there is a big difference between the perception of Wagerr here vs the reality. I want to close that gap. As others have said, it is important to remain wary in crypto. after 3 years of being live and happy users I would think that Wagerr would have earned more respect than SCAM or Ponzi. The few people that have reached out from SBR to test it out including EZ tiger have had a good experience in learning. Maybe the system isn't perfect but it is improving and it might not have value to you but it has value to plenty of people that want a betting platform like Wagerr.
Last edited by sss_av_ltd; 09-20-21 at 05:56 PM.
1 or 2% (average) ROI on a per wager basis is all that is required to make a butt load of money at traditional sportsbooks. If you had a book with no limits...wowzers!
Last edited by DontTailMe; 09-20-21 at 06:07 PM.
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