[arie1985]

I've decided to try Bet-IBC broker service, and I agreed to send them a Bitcoin deposit, which they would credit to an Orbit account.

According to their FAQ page - I am copy-pasting the text from their site:

Q41: How is crypto converted?

A: For express deposits, we take the lowest rate of the past 24 hours on coingecko.com. For normal deposits, the lowest rate of 48 hours is taken. Additional 5% is taken for conversion of the cryptocurrency into the currency of your account.

I was happy with these terms, and they asked me if I want an express deposit, and I said yes because the Bitcoin rate was pretty stable.

I've sent them 0.625 BTC on 16:10pm UK Time, 8th of July 2019.

In practice I was credited with only €5,505 in the account.

Now if you look at CoinGecko the lowest BTC/EUR rate between the 7th of July and 8th of July, even before 16:00pm UK time - it was €9,970 - Proof:





You know what? You can clearly see the graph wasn't even close to €9,500 !!

Now 0.625 multiplied by €9,970 is €6,231
Deduct 5% and you would get €5,920 - so €415 is missing.

Even if hypothetically you would calculate it based on €9,500 (which is non-existent based on this graph) - you would still get more than €5,505

The only thing Bet-IBC told me was replying the same answer twice:

The lowest rate of coingecko and 5% for exchange are applied. Fees for processing the deposit 1.5% and plus 5% for using express option.

They did not comment any further.

I honestly feel I was robbed ...
I don't mind them taking fees - but they should take it as indicated or take €50 as "slight deviation" at most but not €415 ... ($465!)

[Alfie White]

It has been widely said that Bet-IBC are pricks that steal funds, I have no clue why have you decided to use them. Lowest rate in last 48h +5% fee, I mean if you were OK with that you were prepared to be nailed to the bed lol.

Shit broker with shitty decisions, to be avoided like plague.

[arie1985]

It has been widely said that Bet-IBC are pricks that steal funds, I have no clue why have you decided to use them. Lowest rate in last 48h +5% fee, I mean if you were OK with that you were prepared to be nailed to the bed lol.

Shit broker with shitty decisions, to be avoided like plague.

Express deposit is last 24h + 5% - I know other brokers who are not really great neither when it comes to credit you with Bitcoin conversion, however how could they say 1 thing and do another.

To get €5,505 you're talking about a BTC rate of €9,300 which did not happen in the past 24 hours of when the deposit was made.

[Alfie White]

Bet-IBC does that all the time, they steal money for "express deposit" etc, pointless to use them.

[lonnie55]

The lowest rate of coingecko and 5% for exchange are applied. Fees for processing the deposit 1.5% and plus 5% for using express option.

6,231 * 0.95 * 0.95 * 0.985 = 5,539

=> 34 EUR missing

[eaglesfan371]

$400 is roughly 5% of what you claim to have deposited...

I’m confused why you argue you were scammed.

[jjgold]

stay away from IBC

Terrible

[arie1985]

6,231 * 0.95 * 0.95 * 0.985 = 5,539

=> 34 EUR missing

That is wrong, why did you multiply this by 0.95 twice and not once?

[arie1985]

$400 is roughly 5% of what you claim to have deposited...

I’m confused why you argue you were scammed.

Please read the first post, I believe everything is explained there, it shouldn't be too hard to understand.

[Optional]

That is wrong, why did you multiply this by 0.95 twice and not once?

Because you said there was 2 x 5% fees

"The lowest rate of coingecko and 5% for exchange are applied. Fees for processing the deposit 1.5% and plus 5% for using express option."


5% for exchange
1.5% for processing fees
5% for express deposit.


Sounds like Lonnie might have it right there?

[arie1985]

Okay, so I placed laying bets on longshot horses and I got my balance to be €6,126
I requested a withdrawal of €200 - this is what they charged me:



I went on chat with them to find out why is that - they said the following:

5% exchange fee for Bitcoin , 5% for withdrawing to a differnt BTC wallet, 5% for express option, 1% standard withdrawal fee and 10% for no turnover

Regarding turnover I told them if I got from €5,505 to €6,126 then surely there was over €500 of winnings, and I only asked for €200 - so they said:

The entire amount should be equal or exceed the amount you deposited.For example if you deposited 200 EUR , you should have 200 EUR placed in bets with the status won or lost.Like this it will be considered that you have generated 1xturnover.

Have you ever seen anything like this?!

[arie1985]

Because you said there was 2 x 5% fees

"The lowest rate of coingecko and 5% for exchange are applied. Fees for processing the deposit 1.5% and plus 5% for using express option."


5% for exchange
1.5% for processing fees
5% for express deposit.


Sounds like Lonnie might have it right there?

Sounds like it, thanks for explaining - if that's how they do it ... fine, but it's terrible ...

[Optional]

Okay, so I placed laying bets on longshot horses and I got my balance to be €6,126
I requested a withdrawal of €200 - this is what they charged me:



I went on chat with them to find out why is that - they said the following:

5% exchange fee for Bitcoin , 5% for withdrawing to a differnt BTC wallet, 5% for express option, 1% standard withdrawal fee and 10% for no turnover

Regarding turnover I told them if I got from €5,505 to €6,126 then surely there was over €500 of winnings, and I only asked for €200 - so they said:

The entire amount should be equal or exceed the amount you deposited.For example if you deposited 200 EUR , you should have 200 EUR placed in bets with the status won or lost.Like this it will be considered that you have generated 1xturnover.

Have you ever seen anything like this?!

Whilst the fees sound crazy to me.

They are correct about what constitutes a 1x rollover of funds. It's the same everywhere.

You need to risk 5505 in bets before withdrawing to avoid that fee.

[arie1985]

Whilst the fees sound crazy to me.

They are correct about what constitutes a 1x rollover of funds. It's the same everywhere.

You need to risk 5505 in bets before withdrawing to avoid that fee.

I thought laying bets is a risk of 5505 because you risk your entire balance to gain 10-30 when you lay longshot horses ... apparently they want your STAKES to be rolled over ... so I need to find some 1.01 bet and take it with the entire balance or just keep on laying for a long time....

[Optional]

I thought laying bets is a risk of 5505 because you risk your entire balance to gain 10-30 when you lay longshot horses ... apparently they want your STAKES to be rolled over ... so I need to find some 1.01 bet and take it with the entire balance or just keep on laying for a long time....

If you put your entire balance at risk, then yes I agree you have done the 1x


Whilst there is no odds restriction, placing one allin bet for 1.01 and then asking to withdraw is so obviously money laundering it won't really work at most books.

[arie1985]

If you put your entire balance at risk, then yes I agree you have done the 1x


Whilst there is no odds restriction, placing one allin bet for 1.01 and then asking to withdraw is so obviously money laundering it won't really work at most books.

The goal is not to bet 1.01 and withdraw the whole lot but to make small withdrawals - I just don't want them charging 10% (on top of their crazy fees).

[arie1985]

I think I can also lay @ 1.01 - then lose 55 but this way tick the box of rolling over - right?

[raiders72001]

I've decided to try Bet-IBC broker service, and I agreed to send them a Bitcoin deposit, which they would credit to an Orbit account.

According to their FAQ page - I am copy-pasting the text from their site:

Q41: How is crypto converted?

A: For express deposits, we take the lowest rate of the past 24 hours on coingecko.com. For normal deposits, the lowest rate of 48 hours is taken. Additional 5% is taken for conversion of the cryptocurrency into the currency of your account.

I was happy with these terms, and they asked me if I want an express deposit, and I said yes because the Bitcoin rate was pretty stable.

I've sent them 0.625 BTC on 16:10pm UK Time, 8th of July 2019.

In practice I was credited with only €5,505 in the account.

Now if you look at CoinGecko the lowest BTC/EUR rate between the 7th of July and 8th of July, even before 16:00pm UK time - it was €9,970 - Proof:





You know what? You can clearly see the graph wasn't even close to €9,500 !!

Now 0.625 multiplied by €9,970 is €6,231
Deduct 5% and you would get €5,920 - so €415 is missing.

Even if hypothetically you would calculate it based on €9,500 (which is non-existent based on this graph) - you would still get more than €5,505

The only thing Bet-IBC told me was replying the same answer twice:

The lowest rate of coingecko and 5% for exchange are applied. Fees for processing the deposit 1.5% and plus 5% for using express option.

They did not comment any further.

I honestly feel I was robbed ...
I don't mind them taking fees - but they should take it as indicated or take €50 as "slight deviation" at most but not €415 ... ($465!)

Why would you play there under those conditions?

[arie1985]

Why would you play there under those conditions?

To be honest I don't want to but my deposit is tied there, what else can I do about it now?

Withdrawing the lot means over $1,500 would be gone just in fees!

They charged me €271 for a €200 withdrawal (€271 - 26% = €200)

Paying 26% for a withdrawal is too much, wouldn't you agree?

So my options are now at least:

1) Roll over the deposit once - I'm thinking of simply intentionally losing €55 @ 1.01 lay bet - this way the "Stakes" would be €5,505 (I can actually do less than that as I had some laying bets in place already). 10% Savings.

2) I need to use a Bitcoin address to make a minimum deposit (minimum €100) - and then use the same address to make a withdrawal (must be done to an address I made a deposit with). Then roll over the €100. 5% Savings.

This way I would be able to withdraw with either 6% fees (slow withdrawal) or 11% fee (fast withdrawal) - and I think the fast one is better if you like the BTC/USD (or BTC/EUR) rate, because a 24h period of taking the lowest rate - could be better than a 48h period where you lose more than that 5% - plus you get it faster.

[Optional]

The goal is not to bet 1.01 and withdraw the whole lot but to make small withdrawals - I just don't want them charging 10% (on top of their crazy fees).

I'll ask the GM for you.

[skycrapper8080]

I attempted to try BET-IBC service but their fees are really s*cks!! Really terrible !

One-time rollover requirement are required with every brokers I know particularly in AC88 and odyssey. They also both offering free deposit and withdrawal with no kyc for bitcoin users - I guess one of them can be your options for using orbitx.
But in my personal opinion. Odyssey are more transparent when it comes about the rate. They are getting it from this site : https://www.bitstamp.net/
Most of the time their rate is higher than AC88 provided thru their AMS but if you will look in different side, AC88 is well-known and reputable brokers who provide a good quality service.

[lonnie55]

What is actually the case here?

You guys know their fees and conditions but you still use them and afterwards you are complaining.

If you're not happy with their fees don't use them. No one in the world forces you to use this broker. There are plenty of options.

For my part, I use VIP-IBC as an addition to Sportmarket and AsianConnect. I do not use Bitcoin and uncheck the express option when I request a withdrawal. So all what I pay is a transaction fee of 1%, the same fee Sportmarket charges. The only difference is the 0.75% comission but for that you got twice the limits at Pinnacle than SM offers. That's their USP.

[arie1985]

I'll ask the GM for you.

Their answer was yes, it counts.

[Optional]

Their answer was yes, it counts.

Yes, he replied that the 10% fee would be reversed for you and said they were talking to you on chat about it.

[Optional]

Bet-IBC say that bitcoin is a an inconvenient and expensive option for them to offer. Hence the fees.

They recommend using Skrill/Neteller to avoid the fees.

[arie1985]

Yes, he replied that the 10% fee would be reversed for you and said they were talking to you on chat about it.

Yes, thank you for your speedy involvement in this.

[arie1985]

What is actually the case here?

You guys know their fees and conditions but you still use them and afterwards you are complaining.

If you're not happy with their fees don't use them. No one in the world forces you to use this broker. There are plenty of options.

For my part, I use VIP-IBC as an addition to Sportmarket and AsianConnect. I do not use Bitcoin and uncheck the express option when I request a withdrawal. So all what I pay is a transaction fee of 1%, the same fee Sportmarket charges. The only difference is the 0.75% comission but for that you got twice the limits at Pinnacle than SM offers. That's their USP.

There is no case, I deleted the words "Unscrupulous Practice" from the title of the thread now.

I just wasn't aware they charge you 5% twice for deposits (if you use express deposit which is vital if you use Bitcoin as the 24h window can save you more than just 5%). That was my initial mistake.

It's all clear now.

[arie1985]

Bet-IBC say that bitcoin is a an inconvenient and expensive option for them to offer. Hence the fees.

They recommend using Skrill/Neteller to avoid the fees.

It makes some sense to be honest, I remember BetInAsia also pays Bitcoin withdrawals with some hefty fees (which are not always disclosed).

I've sorted it out with them, so their withdrawal fee was:

10% No Rollover - ROLLED OVER now
5% Not using the same BTC Address - FIXED
5% Express
5% Bitcoin
1% Withdrawal

So they charge you 11% to convert your EUR balance into Bitcoin. I think it's pretty okay, it's not so bad when I come to think about it.
Also rolling over using the lay @ 1.01 option is not bad, in case you don't want to take unnecessary risks (as I've seen so many 1.01 bets failing in my life).

It's not very cheap but it's not so bad.

I will try to make another withdrawal perhaps later on today or tomorrow (if no longshot horse wins) - then will report if I was truly charged 11% on the withdrawal.

I can confirm the amount of EUR you're getting in Bitcoin is on the spot, no fees there so they do send you the correct amount.

[Alfie White]

Bet-IBC say that bitcoin is a an inconvenient and expensive option for them to offer. Hence the fees.
They recommend using Skrill/Neteller to avoid the fees.

Unless you want express deposit and then you will get charged 5%.
Nice "fee avoidance".

[arie1985]

AC88 is well-known and reputable brokers who provide a good quality service.

I agree to a certain extent, AC88 has also been very slow with KYC with some customers.

[arie1985]

Unless you want express deposit and then you will get charged 5%.
Nice "fee avoidance".

A normal deposit would take the lowest rate of Bitcoin from the past 48 hours ... at times like this when BTC went up from $10,000 towards the $13,000 - you better take the express option. Think about this way - take the hypothetical scenario where Bitcoin was lowest $10,000 within the past 48 hours and $12,000 within the past 24 hours:

[EXPRESS] 0.2 BTC * 12,000 * 0.95 * 0.95 * 0.985 = $2,133
[NORMAL] 0.2 BTC * 10,000 * 0.95 * 0.985 = $1,871

So with the express deposit - you get extra $260 and you get it processed faster as well.

So if you had these 2 options - which one would you choose? It's not too hard to guess.

[skycrapper8080]

I agree to a certain extent, AC88 has also been very slow with KYC with some customers.

I am a Bitcoin user for AC88, so far they haven't asked me to undergo KYC caused they said they will ask me to do it if I was chosen for a random checking. But Yes. I heard about some complaints about their KYC's. It takes too long to verify the account/identity.

[lonnie55]

Unless you want express deposit and then you will get charged 5%.
Nice "fee avoidance".

Then don't f*cking use this broker

It's ridiculous how you accuse them of stealing every time there is someone complaining about their fees. Your agenda against them is so obvious, not sure if you get money from other brokers for villainizing them. You better should delete the word stealing from your posts #2 and 4, otherwise all what you say about this broker is not credible

[Alfie White]

You are I have completely different opinions on the word "stealing" and that is perfectly fine not to agree on that. If you find "using 48h lowest rate" fair, that is completely your standpoint and I will always be strongly against it as it is ridiculous to even say "it is stated in T&C", I have every single right to say it is wrong.

To add to that, charing 5% for "EXPRESS DEPOSIT" via personal Paysafe accounts (if they still use those) is abyssal as they pay 0% fee to anyone, meaning that you have to pay them in order to get your account funded "express", and that is normal or fair by you?

Maybe you are the one who is getting paid by them to say "It is written in T&C, deal with it.".

I am sharing my views on bad practices and that is all, regardless who is the broker in question as I have tried them all.

[lonnie55]

Stealing and bad/unfair practices are two very different animals.

I never said their terms, fees and practices are fair. Instead, I made my point clear about BET-IBC in various posts. I always underlined they are not my go-to-broker. I always recommended SM and AC over BET-IBC but, again, they have their USP.

But it's hard to discuss with someone who doesn't know the meaning of the word stealing...