[littlekona]

On orbitx
So say player#1 lays horse #A for 500 @2.0
And player #2 backs horse #A for 500 @2.0

How does orbitx have any risk....and if it goes into the betfair pool how is it possible that they "book it"

[Alfie White]

70% goes to Betfair, 30% stays on OrbitX and is passed down to an agent.

If Players #1 and #2 are both under same agent line, that agent line will win 165 from one customer and will lose 165 from other customer, reaping commission on the winning side as well.

But if the winning side is alone on the agent line, that agent will pay 30% of the winnings to the customer. (opposite goes if the customer is losing - then agent wins 30% of the stake)


You have to understand that every agent has their own "orbitx agent line" and that is not all "joined". It is not OrbitX who is putting limit on your account, it is the broker, AC in this case as the customer has won against their agent line.

[thespeculator]

70% goes to Betfair, 30% stays on OrbitX and is passed down to an agent.

If Players #1 and #2 are both under same agent line, that agent line will win 165 from one customer and will lose 165 from other customer, reaping commission on the winning side as well.

But if the winning side is alone on the agent line, that agent will pay 30% of the winnings to the customer. (opposite goes if the customer is losing - then agent wins 30% of the stake)


You have to understand that every agent has their own "orbitx agent line" and that is not all "joined". It is not OrbitX who is putting limit on your account, it is the broker, AC in this case as the customer has won against their agent line.

This makes sense. When I used bet-ibc for orbitx, i would get you have reached your exposure limit. With AC I have made some larger bets than bet-ibc and never had that issue

[littlekona]

This makes sense. When I used bet-ibc for orbitx, i would get you have reached your exposure limit. With AC I have made some larger bets than bet-ibc and never had that issue

so maybe ask AC88 if you can limit your bets to say 1000 Euro or less and see if they keep same commissions or ask what what exposure limit is for reg commission

[thespeculator]

so maybe ask AC88 if you can limit your bets to say 1000 Euro or less and see if they keep same commissions or ask what what exposure limit is for reg commission

I was trying to say with agent bet-ibc i couldn't bet as large as I can with AC. I haven't had any issues with AC .They are having a maintenance day I think tomorrow hopefully it will clear some things up!!!

[icon]

This makes sense. When I used bet-ibc for orbitx, i would get you have reached your exposure limit. With AC I have made some larger bets than bet-ibc and never had that issue

I received this message the other day on OrbitX betting US horses. Blew my mind because my bets were in the 6-60 EURO range.
On that day I must have made over 100 horse bets - 95% lay and 5% back bets.

[Foosball Champ]

What Alfie is saying is that when Foosball champ back a horse, the lay bet is from AC themselves. I personally think OrbitX lay the bet, not AC. But who knows.

i agree with poisec. AC may own or partly own orbitx and/or 9wicks. the other thing that was really odd is that the commision was raised for 9wicks and orbtix at the same time. i hadn't played at 9wciks in over six months.

[KleptoCoin]

Hi all, just curious if anyone has any experience using mountbet.com? Ive been using them recently with a small deposit and their software seems solid. I've read some brief but good things about them, but wanted some feedback before depositing a bigger amount.

I'm also calling betfair later to try and validate if they are an actual betfair partner or not.

[ZAMAZA]

If you're a winner, a 6% commission shouldn't be a problem....

[Poisec]

I'm also calling betfair later to try and validate if they are an actual betfair partner or not.

I would very surprised if they tell you they know about it.

[infotimbo]

You have to understand that every agent has their own "orbitx agent line" and that is not all "joined". It is not OrbitX who is putting limit on your account, it is the broker

it's interesting indeed. If you're losing on Orbitz for a while, limits can go extremely high, like 5 times of what's available on Betfair. Seems like some agents are getting a bit greedy to get more of the cake themself...

[Alfie White]

Exactly, it is very problematic if you start winning A LOT, it can happen that you will never see your funds. Especially if the agent is using private Skrill/Neteller accounts, then absolutely nothing is protecting the player as you can never complain to Paysafe about it... Crazy world we live in.

[Optional]

it's interesting indeed. If you're losing on Orbitz for a while, limits can go extremely high, like 5 times of what's available on Betfair. Seems like some agents are getting a bit greedy to get more of the cake themself...

One of the reasons agents have enforced risk share to start with. Them trying to book the losers themselves and only put the winners through their upline.

[infotimbo]

yeah, it's definitely a very risky approach, and one that could see them going bankrupt easily. It's actually just a couple of clicks away.

[Foosball Champ]

i don't understand why my commision was raised at 9wickets i hadn't played with them in over 8 months.

[Foosball Champ]

seems like i am the one and only person that this has happened to.

[ZAMAZA]

seems like i am the one and only person that this has happened to.

You're one of the few people who make money...

[Foosball Champ]

now that makes. but it seems dishonest on AC88 part. as betfair advertises that they are matching oppsing players, not player versus house. as there is no transparency.

[Optional]

now that makes. but it seems dishonest on AC88 part. as betfair advertises that they are matching oppsing players, not player versus house. as there is no transparency.

Does AC88 offer you a Betfair account now?

I thought they only offered you accounts via clone sites that take a share of bets and have their own rules.

What does Betfair advertising have to do with them?

[Kingofhearts]

I was a silent reader here and I saw your post my account orbitx account has been upgraded into 6% commission too. I was frustrated that time and even f*ck them on chat. But still I can't do anything with it. S*cks

[Smartbettor]

Did you tried to use other trusted broker who also offer the same product?
maybe they commission is lower than what you have now with Ac88.

[littlekona]

Did you tried to use other trusted broker who also offer the same product?
maybe they commission is lower than what you have now with Ac88.

If you know any that accept u s a please advise

[Smartbettor]

If you know any that accept u s a please advise

I am using odyssey88. They only offer bitcoin. I only have 9wickets with them but I heard they also have orbit

[littlekona]

I am using odyssey88. They only offer bitcoin. I only have 9wickets with them but I heard they also have orbit

may be option for OP and others if commissions hike at AC88 they offer same as AC88 seems chat CS seems fast here


Sport Odyssey
Support Agent








Sport Odyssey 07:13

Hello. How may I help you?




Welcome to Sportodyssey! This is Olivia, I'll be assisting you today!






07:13

do u accept usa






Sport Odyssey 07:13

We offer the following bookies namely: Pinnacle, BET ISN, Orbit Exchange and 9Wickets.




Hi, yes we do accept customers from USA.






07:14

are you affilaited with ac88






Sport Odyssey 07:14

We have different entity.




we are not affiliated to any sports brokerage.






07:15

how fast are withdrawls via btc






Sport Odyssey 07:15

We process payouts in less than 5 minutes.






07:15

is there any KYC




or validation






Sport Odyssey 07:16

We provide anonymous betting and through bitcoin as our payment gateway, we do not conduct account verification.






07:16

how long u guys been around






Sport Odyssey 07:17

We've been in the market providing online sports brokerage for more than 5 years.






07:19

if there are any disputes would you allow SBR forum representative to moderate and or have contact with you to help player?






Sport Odyssey 07:20

What do you mean sir?




Can you explain further?






07:22

yes say there is a dispute will you allow a players advocate forum like SBR review to contact you and or moderate....I know that agents like AC88 allow SBR to contact them for player if dispute occur






Sport Odyssey 07:24

Yes sir. It's not a problem with us.




We heard SBR forum has a good reputation. By any chance. We would like to be a part of it.






07:25

last question is there any deposit hold times. say i deposit today 1 btc make profit can i cash out full balance same day






Sport Odyssey 07:26

Yes you can. As long as you already made a one-time rollover requirement




we can process your withdrawal immediately






07:26

ok tyvm

[skycrapper8080]

They only have bitcoin as payment method, no skrill and neteller. I must arrange bitcoin to try their service. But i think bitcoin is complicated.

[rodneytrotter]

https://www.ft.com/content/80987f0c-...e-8b459ed04726 Financial Times article on how these Betfair clones operate

[Alfie White]

Have any mirror without paywall?

[thespeculator]

https://www.ft.com/content/80987f0c-...e-8b459ed04726 Financial Times article on how these Betfair clones operate

looks like interesting read, for subscribers only

you can see it if you go through google

[Dran68]

Backdoor to Betfair: how to win £2,000 with no compliance checks
Overseas gamblers can use loosely regulated partner sites to access UK platform

Antonia Cundy and Paul Murphy in London
yesterday
Horse trainer Michael Madgwick was celebrating last week when Miss Recycled became the surprise winner in the 4.15 one-mile handicap at Brighton, returning wallet-enhancing odds of 100-1.
It was the filly’s first outing since October, according to the Racing Post. She came in with a strong late run under jockey Tom Marquand for a “short-head victory”.
Yet the performance would have been all the more profitable for Mr Madgwick if he had followed the lead of the Financial Times.
As part of an ongoing investigation into the grey world of online gambling, FT reporters had also placed money on Miss Recycled — at even longer odds of 250-1. A small wager paid out close to £2,000.
The bet was placed on the Betfair Exchange, a peer-to-peer gambling platform operated by the UK’s Flutter Entertainment, a FTSE 100 sports betting group that boasts 6m customers around the world and a £4.8bn market capitalisation.
Although Betfair imposes strict compliance procedures on its UK customers, the FT’s experiment highlights a loophole that allows anonymous gamblers — sitting in countries where betting may be illegal — to avoid checks on their identities and the provenance of their money.
The FT’s exact winnings were “1,982 PTE”. Until January 1999, “PTE” was the foreign exchange symbol for the Portuguese escudo. Nowadays it is the accepted code for euros in the opaque world of agents, brokers and clone websites that quietly route money from a variety of countries where betting may or may not be legal to Betfair’s closely regulated gambling platform in the UK.
It is a world where so-called “Know Your Customer” checks (KYC) and other anti-money laundering controls are applied rather less stringently than in countries such as the US or Britain — if indeed they are applied at all.
Betting industry executives and experienced professional gamblers have claimed to the FT that large amounts of dirty money and illegal gambling could be flowing through to the Betfair site, given weak regulatory enforcement elsewhere. Flutter disputed this and stated that revenue derived from a small network of what it calls B2B Partners is “immaterial” to the group, making up less than 1 per cent of its £2bn in annual sales. All of its partners are expected to impose full checks on end customers, it said.
The long-odds punt on Miss Recycled was an attempt to test this.


Using a simple Gmail address, FT reporters set up an account at AsianConnect88, a gambling agency registered in Curaçao, the Dutch Caribbean island that has operated a light-touch gambling registration service for more than 20 years. Funds were lodged with AsianConnect via Neteller, an e-money transfer service.
AsianConnect then provided anonymous-looking login details for a website called 9wickets, one of Betfair’s business-to-business partners which, under a master agreement with the UK company, clones the gaming prices displayed on the main Betfair betting exchange. The long-shot bet on Miss Recycled was placed by user “wick1069” through 9wickets and instantaneously “matched” by a gambling counterparty on the main Betfair platform.
Gambling companies such as Flutter are expected to perform strict checks on identity and source of funds. A spokesperson for the Gambling Commission, which acts as regulator in the UK, said: “Ultimately, a [regulated] licensee must assure themselves that they are acting in a lawful manner and failure to do so would bring into question their suitability to hold a Commission licence.”

Testing the KYC principle, the FT invited Flutter to identify the winner of the 250-1 long shot at Brighton; the company declined on privacy grounds. The FT then invited Flutter to send a congratulatory email directly to the lucky punter; no such email had arrived by the time of publication.
With the same identity used for the AsianConnect account, the FT also set up an account with Betfair in the UK, going through stringent identity checks that extended to the uploading of a birth certificate.
Flutter was asked whether the effective creation of two accounts by one individual for use on Betfair amounted to a fundamental breach of its anti-money laundering controls, but the company declined to answer, citing commercial sensitivities.
Gamblers and rival betting companies claim that without tight controls on identity, peer-to-peer gambling exchanges like Betfair offer an easy mechanism to clean tainted money and, in the process, transfer it from anywhere in the world to a jurisdiction like the UK.
Flutter said: “All our B2B partners are licensed operators and they are held to a high standard of verification. We conduct enhanced due diligence on the B2B partner, relevant related parties and their respective operating licences before entering into any relationship. Our partners are also subject to ongoing review throughout the course of the relationship.”
Partners are required to provide full individual account information to Betfair upon request, with the company adding: “As licensed operators, all our B2B partners adhere to the ‘know your customer’ requirements specified by their [local] licensing authority.”
Access to 9wickets — like another Betfair B2B partner, Orbit Exchange — is blocked to regular internet users in the UK, but the sites are failing to block covert gambling in countries where online betting is largely banned, such as the US and India. Betfair’s application programming interface (API) is hard-wired into these sites’ source code, allowing them to replicate Betfair’s gambling odds and liquidity pool.

Orbit Exchange, which - like 9Wicket - functions as a B2B partner for Betfair © FT montage Describing themselves as being “Powered by Betfair”, the companies operating these clone websites have taken measures to keep their ownership and management completely opaque, typically using the offshore services of Curaçao.
The Curaçao Gaming Control Board did not respond to requests for comment.
Other “Powered by Betfair” sites identified by the FT include AB Exchange and Betchips. None of the Betfair clone sites responded to requests by the FT for comment.
Ordinary customers are not able to sign up directly to these partners. Instead, a secondary network of affiliate broker websites, with their own network of individual agents or brokers, provide gamblers with login details.
Alongside AsianConnect, at least a dozen major affiliates are funnelling customers to the clone Betfair sites, with each affiliate having their own network of individual agents and brokers.
Some of these affiliates openly claim that customers’ identities will not be passed on to the clone sites or to Betfair itself. Others require no identity checks at all, but nonetheless promise direct access to Betfair’s odds and liquidity. Simple online conversations with these sites’ “chatbot” functions by FT reporters confirmed the slack regulatory controls.

The clone sites, along with their affiliates and agents, accept bank transfers or cryptocurrency payments through e-payment services such as Skrill and Neteller, or through informal hawala cash transfer networks. Active online gamblers told the FT that a favoured hub for turning cash discreetly into online gambling funds is the Deira district in Dubai, where scores of foreign exchange transfer agents are based.
Betfair applies a 2 per cent commission on all winning bets that come through the partners’ sites. The clones are required to route at least 50 per cent of their business through to the Betfair exchange, taking the remaining gambling risk on to their own books. Customers of the clones typically pay a total winning commission of 3.5 per cent, compared with the standard 5 per cent levied by Betfair in the UK.
Although Flutter claims that its B2B partnerships are immaterial to the business at a group level, there are serious amounts of money being bet on the platforms.
By way of illustration, the Champions League final between two English football teams, Liverpool and Tottenham Hotspur, on June 1 attracted “matched” bets of £13m; in cricket, meanwhile, the World Cup clash between India and South Africa four days later saw £90m matched.
Betfair announced in January this year that it would no longer accept bets from Indian accounts, but the 9wickets site and numerous affiliates are still accessible from Indian internet domains. Similarly, while gamblers in South Africa were banned from Betfair seven years ago, partly in response to suspicions that the platform was being used to circumvent the country’s currency controls, gambling sources told the FT that at least 500 “whales” — high-stakes gamblers — were accessing Betfair through a B2B partner.
Any ambitions among FT reporters to join the ranks of these high rollers are on hold, however. After the FT sought comment from Betfair for this article, the 9wickets account for user “wick1069” was first suspended and the Miss Recycled winnings frozen, pending an investigation. The money has since vanished.

[thespeculator]

u beat me to it

[Optional]

"It is a world where so-called “Know Your Customer” checks (KYC) and other anti-money laundering controls are applied rather less stringently than in countries such as the US or Britain"


Financial Times should not be slurring the USA industry by trying to imply USA would ever work in the way the UK does.

Best way to get people not to circumvent your rules is not to enact unreasonable rules to start with.


Fin Times sounds like they look down on other licensed jurisdictions... when the UK rules are patently unreasonable and out of control.

In my opinion, UK laws are the worst for bettors ANYWHERE. Without a peer.

[Poisec]

If you're a winner, a 6% commission shouldn't be a problem....

Really depends on your style of betting. Betting on 1.94 odds instead of 1.97 makes a big difference in the long term.

[ZAMAZA]

Really depends on your style of betting. Betting on 1.94 odds instead of 1.97 makes a big difference in the long term.

Yes, It's true...

[Pauie Paw]

Just curious, how much did you win until they decided to increase the commission?

I have an OrbitX account in AC88 with 3% commission. maybe the upline imposed the commission as I understand on the email. Im wondering if they will set also my commission to 6%. I hope not. hahahaha

[Poisec]

I have an OrbitX account in AC88 with 3% commission. maybe the upline imposed the commission as I understand on the email. Im wondering if they will set also my commission to 6%. I hope not. hahahaha

How much did you win so far?

I am up around 3000 EUR since May but with another broker, still at 3% but my winnings had lots of up and down so they probably hope I lose it all soon. Anyway if one day they raise my commission, I ll just leave and sign up to a new broker.