[Sam Odom]

If one is pulling in nice profits with btc how about just do the lawful thing... Report your earning

[SharpAngles]

Another thought of mine was to just get a Bitpay card in randoms/name.....homeless guy ect.....if your just pulling cash off it, the name on it means nothing.... Track and Prosecute AWAY boys LOL....

Great idea! Since were already committing tax fraud what’s a little identity theft thrown in right? I went ahead and used your name and SSN for my bitpay card, prosecute AWAY boys LOL....

[PaperTrail07]

Identity Theft? Your paying the man to use his ID......there is no theft here.....Just someone who has ZERO dollars for them to come after and also a person who would appreciate Jail LOL if it went the distance......TAX FRAUD LMAO...........

Great idea! Since were already committing tax fraud what’s a little identity theft thrown in right? I went ahead and used your name and SSN for my bitpay card, prosecute AWAY boys LOL....

[PaperTrail07]

You would have been the guy turning people in during prohibition Just bc the all commanding govt will smack you for it does not mean its wrong-it just favors THEM.....

Great idea! Since were already committing tax fraud what’s a little identity theft thrown in right? I went ahead and used your name and SSN for my bitpay card, prosecute AWAY boys LOL....

[SharpAngles]

You would have been the guy turning people in during prohibition Just bc the all commanding govt will smack you for it does not mean its wrong-it just favors THEM.....

Wtf are you talking about? I’m not a rat that’s for sure, if I was I’d be rich off of irs tip rewards since I see poker players try to cheat the system every day. I’ve also seen some of their lives ruined, literally ruined, because they took retarded advice like you shared above so felt the need to point out that it’s fukin retarded and others reading your post should not think that’s a good idea.

[PaperTrail07]

If people are making big $ in poker, tossing $ around and claiming zero income that's their own problem...this is a diff animal IMO...... So some poker players got caught hiding US dollars in US accounts smh....Sometimes good people are FORCED to do illegal things (even though if you pay the guy its not ILLEGAL)...to stay off the map in a world with laws that change on the fly...

Wtf are you talking about? I’m not a rat that’s for sure, if I was I’d be rich off of irs tip rewards since I see poker players try to cheat the system every day. I’ve also seen some of their lives ruined, literally ruined, because they took retarded advice like you shared above so felt the need to point out that it’s fukin retarded and others reading your post should not think that’s a good idea.

[PaperTrail07]

And its ALWAYS to each their own.....level of comfort.....I was simply saying.....if you have a 99 year old G ma with everything out of her name....ask if you can use her bitpay card possibly...

Wtf are you talking about? I’m not a rat that’s for sure, if I was I’d be rich off of irs tip rewards since I see poker players try to cheat the system every day. I’ve also seen some of their lives ruined, literally ruined, because they took retarded advice like you shared above so felt the need to point out that it’s fukin retarded and others reading your post should not think that’s a good idea.

[TheMoneyShot]

If one is pulling in nice profits with btc how about just do the lawful thing... Report your earning

Not really indicating people should do the unlawful thing.

I'm just suggesting that... make sure what you report is wise and accurate... and worthy. What I mean by that... sometimes when you're too honest... it opens up doors to "possible" other audits. Audits in which can go back to 5 years if the govt wants to mess with you.

I had a "hot shot" agent mess with me with one of my businesses during the Obama administration. Of course the agent was Black. Not being racist... but every agent I spoke with was Black in regards to my case. The sh#$ they were looking for wasn't justified. IMO it was a federal employee wasting tax payers $. Also, using unjust leverage because he had a badge.

I learned so many things in regards to that... knowledge in which you couldn't gain even if you paid a CPA for his time.

The truth of the matter is... your honesty can get you into far more trouble. Now, what's the threshold? If you've made an easy 20k gain... well... you might want to consider reporting it. I wouldn't amend prior tax years though. I'd rather be sent a letter from the IRS that they know.... and let them send me a bill. They'll add on interest... but if you come up with the lump sum... they will remove the interest.

1. Selling real estate... and making a gain? Yes, easily documented. Sources everywhere. Accurate concrete evidence.

2. Making over 100k at your employer? Yes, easily documented. 2-3 bureaus have your data. Easily traced.

3. A bitcoin? Very new. Multiple exchanges. A lot of switching back and forth... buying selling. Not easily traced. No backup data from other bureaus. Not USA regulated.

In my opinion the math is in your favor.

[MeanPeopleSuck]

MPS - Why do step #2? and #5? Why 2 hops? Could you do just one or the other? Or just covering your bases? Also, do you keep the amounts under a certain value?

Thanks in advance.

No worries, M4L. My view is if anything we write helps even a single person escape the invisible prison of government surveillance, then it's more than worth our time.

The two steps you mention are actually the most important. To be sure anyone following your BTC hits a brick wall, even if they're masters at switching crypto blockchains -- and Chainalysis are -- you MUST include at least one hop with an "ultra anonymous" crypto, either Monero (XMR), ZCash (ZEC) or DASH.

Those three cryptos were SPECIFICALLY designed and built from the ground up to plug the holes in Bitcoin's (valiant, but only partially successful) attempt at anonymous transactions.

Doing two ultra anon hops is just my own way of adding insurance. Since Edward Snowden and some other outlaws have weighed in preferring ZCash over the other two, I tend to always have a ZEC hop, then alternate between XMR and DASH as the 'insurance' ultra anon. https://www.coindesk.com/edward-snow...n-alternative/


You don't have to read a whole lot to see the primary focus of these cryptos is privacy:

ZEC: https://z.cash/technology/index.html

XMR: https://getmonero.org/

DASH: https://www.dash.org/darksend/


Because they're so useful and because they do something Bitcoin can't, I actually own XMR (my second largest position) and I'm building a position in ZEC.

[MeanPeopleSuck]

#3 is totally wrong, you net out all capital gains/losses on schedule D... if there is a NET LOSS, then that is limited to $3000/year and the rest carries forward to future years, to be used against future gains or keep taking the $3000/year loss

Oh, OK, my bad. I've looked into it some more and you're right, I misunderstood how the $3000 carry forward rules work.

I think Papa Georgio also twigged something might be wrong with #3, so he deserves half credit for the catch.

Heh, you could've been nicer about it though, Milwaukee Mike.

[SharpAngles]

No worries, M4L. My view is if anything we write helps even a single person escape the invisible prison of government surveillance, then it's more than worth our time.

You seem like a good guy and obviously know your sht with cryptos but this gave me a good laugh. You sure make avoiding taxes sound noble. Who in the government is tracing every step of your coins other than the three letters checking if you’re a tax cheat?

[MeanPeopleSuck]

If one is pulling in nice profits with btc how about just do the lawful thing... Report your earning

Heh, have you MET our fellow bitcoiners? Some of them are Boston Tea Party / Intolerable Act types who wouldn't pay tax on their hard earned crypto profits even if it were just a nominal charge.

Even most of those more centered in the 'real world' still have a healthy streak of libertarianism that predisposes them to dislike taxation from a moral / ideological perspective.

After all, "Satoshi Nakamoto's" declared intention in founding bitcoin was to destroy the banks and weaken governments and a lot of these folks still take that stuff surprisingly seriously.

Sam, in all honesty, do you pay taxes on your gambling winnings? If not, why the difference?

[MeanPeopleSuck]

You seem like a good guy and obviously know your sht with cryptos but this gave me a good laugh. You sure make avoiding taxes sound noble. Who in the government is tracing every step of your coins other than the three letters checking if you’re a tax cheat?

I like this thread because it's accomplished in a day what I failed to accomplish in months: raising awareness of the tax risks, specifically with regard to CB, but more generally with regard to any US based exchange, because when the IRS beats CB -- and it will -- and when they discover there's been massive tax fraud -- and they will -- they'll almost certainly use the precedential value of the verdict to subpoena every exchange's trading records.

In other words: this means everybody.

But I think I might be getting a bit misunderstood here. People can make up their own minds about how they want to handle April 15th. I don't care what they ultimately decide. I just want them to understand the situation as it actually exists and maybe help illuminate some of the options they have. That's all.

[mrpapageorgio]

Oh, OK, my bad. I've looked into it some more and you're right, I misunderstood how the $3000 carry forward rules work.

I think Papa Georgio also twigged something might be wrong with #3, so he deserves half credit for the catch.

Heh, you could've been nicer about it though, Milwaukee Mike.

I didn't add to the post, I just nominated Milwaukee's thread agreeing with him.

But yes, those asking why aren't people paying taxes. If you look at the philosophical reasons why Bitcoin was founded, you'll see why a lot of people don't. Of course, many of us just use Bitcoin as a method of exchange to bet on sports and aren't as apprehensive about reporting income since Bitcoin is simply a tool of the hobby/profession (whatever you want to call it). But the philosophical Bitcoin users would rather eat glass than report their Bitcoin gains to the IRS since they invented Bitcoin to take on the "man" who controls the financial system and sure as hell aren't going to help them profit by paying taxes on the fruits of that invention.

[MeanPeopleSuck]

You've got a cool screen name. It seems somehow familiar to me but I can't place it. Does it mean anything?

[MeanPeopleSuck]

I won't be surprised if that was true.

You've got a really cool screen name. It seems familiar, but I can't place it. Does it mean anything?

[milwaukee mike]

Oh, OK, my bad. I've looked into it some more and you're right, I misunderstood how the $3000 carry forward rules work.

I think Papa Georgio also twigged something might be wrong with #3, so he deserves half credit for the catch.

Heh, you could've been nicer about it though, Milwaukee Mike.

not sure how i was being mean but ok here's my repost

i think there might be a small problem with #3 sweetie pie! i love you!

[Bsims]

OK, let's assume the IRS's wet dream comes true and they get access to all US base exchanges and their customer's transactions. Now what. I know, we'll look for when a customer buys some BTC with USD and later sells some BTC for USD. Great, consider it like a stock transaction and tax him on his gain or loss.

But wait, suppose he uses the BTC to buy some LTC and later sells LTC to buy some XRP, and so on. Now how do I assign USD gains and losses on these transactions. Yes, it technically could be done, but it would be very tricky and require the knowledge of the equivalent USD value at the moment of the transactions. Somehow this strikes me as beyond their capabilities.

But they could take an easier way out. Just say, Ole Bill, you deposited x dollars at Coinbase and later withdrew y dollars. We'll tax you on the difference. So, how do they account for the BTC that disappeared, like converted to a debit or gift card. Or even worse, those BTC that went to an offshore sports book, only to be lost forever.

I'm 73 years old. By the time they figure this out, I'll be long gone and won't give a rat's ass.

[jjgold]

seems basically impossible to track

[milwaukee mike]

OK, let's assume the IRS's wet dream comes true and they get access to all US base exchanges and their customer's transactions. Now what. I know, we'll look for when a customer buys some BTC with USD and later sells some BTC for USD. Great, consider it like a stock transaction and tax him on his gain or loss.

But wait, suppose he uses the BTC to buy some LTC and later sells LTC to buy some XRP, and so on. Now how do I assign USD gains and losses on these transactions. Yes, it technically could be done, but it would be very tricky and require the knowledge of the equivalent USD value at the moment of the transactions. Somehow this strikes me as beyond their capabilities.

But they could take an easier way out. Just say, Ole Bill, you deposited x dollars at Coinbase and later withdrew y dollars. We'll tax you on the difference. So, how do they account for the BTC that disappeared, like converted to a debit or gift card. Or even worse, those BTC that went to an offshore sports book, only to be lost forever.

I'm 73 years old. By the time they figure this out, I'll be long gone and won't give a rat's ass.

that's not really how the irs operates

what they do is assign 0 cost basis to any unreported sales... so if they see someone sold 200k worth of bitcoin in 2017 and didn't report it, a letter would go out saying that taxes were owed on the whole 200k... even though for most people it is pretty much in/out

[SharpAngles]

A letter? Sounds like they got off lucky. Few years ago I forgot to report a couple scores and they sent this fkn guy to my house.



He put me in a reverse chin lock until I signed the check then finished me with something he called “the write off” as my penalty. I’ve paid my taxes like a good citizen ever since.

[MeanPeopleSuck]

Not a lot of work at all. I'm not talking about avoiding taxes or doing anything nefarious. I'm talking about our civil liberties which is in jeopardy every day. Wasn't this country founded by people who did not want government controlling our lives, especially our money? Why should I disclose to anyone when I buy a house, car or pizza? It is not the governments business what the hell I do with my money? We are all sheep. We've let the government in on our lives and rolled over like sheep. This is far from what our forefathers envisioned. We are tracked like cattle. Anyone can know where you are and where you're going. It's awful.

If I buy BTC at $5k and it grows to $10k in the next few months. Should I have to pay $5k in capital gains? Why? What if BTC goes to zero? Will the IRS give me $5k? Absolutely not. Fukking double standard. I do not want anyone, least of all the government knowing or managing my money. Hell no.

Great post.

Plus, we're not telling anybody NOT to pay their taxes. We're just saying, "here's all the information you need, now go do whatever the hell you want."

Besides, I bet ya dollars to donuts that paying taxes on crypto profits is like paying taxes on gambling winnings: a lot more people SAY they do it than ACTUALLY do it.

[MeanPeopleSuck]

I'm 73 years old. By the time they figure this out, I'll be long gone and won't give a rat's ass.

I LOVE your style!!! Pm me one of these days; we had some great talks.