[lotuspod]

never addressed any of this and this is a red flag

Because it's impossible to answer, mainly due to having a decentralized governance and other factors such as bug bounties. We have a pretty large community with a lot of serious sports bettors and crypto enthusiasts - and we've pooled our talent and resources to create what we feel would be the ideal betting solution for us(and likely many others).

Anyone is welcome to use it or even contribute in whatever way(s) they can, even anonymously...open-source can be quite efficient. We would greatly appreciate any kind of input/support/etc from the SBR community, I hope that they will enjoy some of the new features we're bringing to the table and the peace of mind that it's open source and community-led. With no central points of failure, it can continue to operate indefinitely.

I'll personally try to make sure that there are various ways that all wgr users can win/earn small amounts of wgr so that there is no risk in participating if they'd prefer. After all, we'd like to have some fun with it too.

I can say that we have a few loyal members who started out far more critical than you, but this is an interesting project in many different ways once you dig into it.

Regarding the funds in particular, the crypto addresses for the project funds are visible to all. Unnecessary spending isn't much of a thing when you have (at least) dozens or hundreds of community members watching them like hawks and demanding explanations for all but the smallest of movements...especially with crypto prices as relatively low as they are recently.

I can't guarantee this will work out perfectly of course, but the potential benefits it would bring are worth it for me personally. And just a unit or a few on it probably isn't the worst bet many people will make this year lol. This thread could be fun to look back on in a year or two.

[lotuspod]

Public testing has finished, just in time for Canelo/GGG. It's still nowhere near a finished platform, but the foundation is now ready. It's essentially 2 major updates in one, for both betting and privacy/anonymity. More info can be found in this article that just arrived, along with an outline of the update process.

https://medium.com/wagerr-news/wager...e-273a00e7b08c

[Optional]

Public testing has finished, just in time for Canelo/GGG. It's still nowhere near a finished platform, but the foundation is now ready. It's essentially 2 major updates in one, for both betting and privacy/anonymity. More info can be found in this article that just arrived, along with an outline of the update process.

https://medium.com/wagerr-news/wager...e-273a00e7b08c

What an IMMENSE disappointment.

No wonder you never addressed fees questions before.

6%??? What a joke.


"The “Direct-Chain” betting fee is 6% of the profit from winning bets."


And then someone is either totally ignorant of the market and/or is happy to just lie straight out too!!


"The 6% “Direct-Chain” fee means that Wagerr will offer some of the most competitive odds in the world"

Damn I hate people who smile, lie and blow smoke up my butt!


What a JOKE.

[Optional]

I've bookmarked that article to share every time anyone asks about this investment scheme in the future.

Your own words will be enough to show experienced bettors they should avoid it.


Man I can't believe I waited so hopefully for this for so long.

What an awful joke.

[qsgsg]

i was expecting fees to be low since there is low "operating cost". Where does this 6% fee ultimately end up at? the developers?

[danshan11]

I told you long ago wagerr is a joke, they have no clue and that is why they cant name one big name from betting on the team, they want to build a stupid alt coin because there is not enough of those and thought a betting angle might help make that make more sense. They are clueless when it comes to betting, they probably think a 6% fee is low.
do the math dude
you buy btc you pay a fee
you convert to wagerr your btc you pay a fee
you win big you sell wager for btc you pay a fee
you send btc to your bank via Coinbase you pay a fee
you want to bet again on wagerr you start the fee paying all over
its a joke and I cant believe any of you were eating popcorn excited waiting for this garbage

[danshan11]

pinnacle charges roughly 2.5% across all bets and they make .39% net, do the math, where can you do 1% margins with that?

[lotuspod]

i was expecting fees to be low since there is low "operating cost". Where does this 6% fee ultimately end up at? the developers?

Half is burned, other half goes mostly to those running Oracles with a very small part of it for future developments/maintenance. The 6% is for on-chain bets only, once h2h/exchange is ready the fees for that are set at 2%.

It's important to note that fee rates aren't set in stone, they can (and most likely will) be changed if enough Oracles vote for it. There has already been a lot of discussion on this so expect it to be very high on the list of potential issues that will either be addressed by the team or going to an Oracle vote when the time comes.


The initial fees have been stated since the very beginning, they're in the original whitepaper even. When the exchange arrives soon then everyone will have access to 2% fees with that anyway. The only main reasons to use on-chain after that would be ease of use or needing to place a quick bet that isn't possible on the exchange at that time for whatever reason.

[Optional]

If the 6% fee was so clearly disclosed in the white paper, why was the questions about what fees would be not answered for the last year or so this thread has gone on?

And that line about "the most competitive odds in the world" feels like someone pissing on me and saying hey this rain is great isn't it!

And the "burning" coins twaddle means nothing to a bettor. As many feared this is just a gizmo designed to enrich investors, not a serious betting platform.

[danshan11]

like I said just what we need another alt coin, there is not enough of those in the world. This is not a serious betting platform this is all about an alt coin. Dont waste your time on it optional, its a joke. this thread needs to be moved to the saloon or wherever useless garbage goes, this has nothing to do with sports betting

[lotuspod]

The initial odds can be pulled from pretty much anywhere reputable, or even averaged and/or weighted by quality somehow...it all depends on what the consensus is I'm assuming. After that, the dynamic odds balancing system should kick in and automatically adjust the odds as needed.

The above applies mainly to betting directly against the chain, but for h2h betting it will be much more simple so that's why it will be the first betting format available. For h2h it would basically be a marketplace to make/take bets for a much smaller fee than direct on-chain betting(roughly -102 for h2h vs.-106 for on-chain).

Here is one of my earliest posts from June 15th 2017 where I explained the fees. I even explained h2h fees in my very first post on this topic earlier than this even. I was more focused on h2h as I thought that was coming first at the time, but it turned out to be more efficient to implement on-chain first.

Extremely unfair to blame me - I've said numerous times to read the whitepaper and other information for yourselves, form your own opinions, and bring up any issues which I would pass along to the team or put you in touch with the relevant person(s) directly if needed.

I've been suggesting for months to get involved in the discussions if you feel you have something meaningful to contribute, this is honestly one of the few chances for bettors to have a major impact on the development and policies of upcoming sports betting tech.

I'll repeat again - these fees are not set in stone. These are just initial fees which can (and likely will) be changed. Compared to many locations in the world, it is noticeably lower than a great deal of other options. Not everywhere has access to pinnacle. Once we get some initial info on inflation/deflation we will be able to make much more informed decisions regarding how low we can go with fees.

And are you completely ignoring the 2% h2h/exchange fees? Along with the privacy/anonymity features, access to many Asian markets, and a network that actually doesn't ban/restrict winners. Plus users hold their own keys, no more counterparty risk from having to keep coins on a betting site or exchange.


Lastly, many of those 'investors' you're talking about are sports bettors and/or poker players themselves. At least get to know them a bit before you try to call them out for things like greed. Keep in mind that quite a few are current or former members here too.

[qsgsg]

Here is one of my earliest posts from June 15th 2017 where I explained the fees. I even explained h2h fees in my very first post on this topic earlier than this even. I was more focused on h2h as I thought that was coming first at the time, but it turned out to be more efficient to implement on-chain first.


Extremely unfair to blame me - I've said numerous times to read the whitepaper and other information for yourselves, form your own opinions, and bring up any issues which I would pass along to the team or put you in touch with the relevant person(s) directly if needed.

I've been suggesting for months to get involved in the discussions if you feel you have something meaningful to contribute, this is honestly one of the few chances for bettors to have a major impact on the development and policies of upcoming sports betting tech.

I'll repeat again - these fees are not set in stone. These are just initial fees which can (and likely will) be changed. Compared to many locations in the world, it is noticeably lower than a great deal of other options. Not everywhere has access to pinnacle. Once we get some initial info on inflation/deflation we will be able to make much more informed decisions regarding how low we can go with fees.

And are you completely ignoring the 2% h2h/exchange fees? Along with the privacy/anonymity features, access to many Asian markets, and a network that actually doesn't ban/restrict winners. Plus users hold their own keys, no more counterparty risk from having to keep coins on a betting site or exchange.


Lastly, many of those 'investors' you're talking about are sports bettors and/or poker players themselves. At least get to know them a bit before you try to call them out for things like greed. Keep in mind that quite a few are current or former members here too.

Everything sounds good except for the fees. The fees are a major part of a punters decision. If the fees can be "voted" on by a cartel of "oracles" and it goes up and down or it gets fixed at a high price , then I have no interest in it. I dont want to exchange bitcoins into these tokens and find that the bets have poor odds due to fees and i'm unable to cash them out to another book.

[lotuspod]

Everything sounds good except for the fees. The fees are a major part of a punters decision. If the fees can be "voted" on by a cartel of "oracles" and it goes up and down or it gets fixed at a high price , then I have no interest in it. I dont want to exchange bitcoins into these tokens and find that the bets have poor odds due to fees and i'm unable to cash them out to another book.

There is no cartel, anyone can run an Oracle by locking 25k wgr into it - which is refundable if/when you stop running it. Many of those who plan to run one or more of them are bettors themselves, low fees are important to them. I'm personally in favor of fees as low as safely possible too.

One thing to note, if you're staking a decent amount of wgr then the effective amount of fees you're paying is actually a bit lower - since you're essentially earning interest on any wgr that's just sitting in your wallet.

You wouldn't be unable to cash them out to another book either. All you'd have to do is swap them back for btc on one of the many exchanges. Trading fees on Waves (one of the exchanges we're on) for example are less than 1 cent.
There are a number of other solutions that could effectively lower the fees that are paid, we're still at the earliest stages of this project so it's important to note that this is nowhere near complete. We've just now only gotten the basic foundation set, there is still a lot more to be built upon this.

[danshan11]

he thinks a 2% fee is reasonable for wagers, I mean I think this is crazy, this truly shows me they have zero clue how the book business works, most "real" books would die to get a 2% fee on bets.

and he says members here are part of the group, who which members? why dont they disclose themselves, why the secret. I will tell everyone right now I am invested in Amazon stock and I do put money on BOL and PInny, there is no secret here. IF you are an investor in this great project and a member here, come out support it, show your support!

[danshan11]

and please tell us why you support it and how it will work for us the bettors not node providers or miners or alt coin collectors. I am talking about bettors

[bigtymer56]

Cant say Im happy with the 6% either but curious to see how this plays out. Reason I even got into crypto was to fund sportsbooks and gamble. Always good to have more options.

One of the things Im most curios to see if they can pull off is finding a way to go to straight from fiat to wagerr. If they can pull that off that would be big. The average bettor isn't going to want to deal with all the steps now (buy bitcoin, transfer to exchange, buy wagerr, transfer to wallet, bet, transfer back to exchange, buy bitcoin, transfer to other exchange, sell bitcoin and cash out).

[lotuspod]

Cant say Im happy with the 6% either but curious to see how this plays out. Reason I even got into crypto was to fund sportsbooks and gamble. Always good to have more options.

One of the things Im most curios to see if they can pull off is finding a way to go to straight from fiat to wagerr. If they can pull that off that would be big. The average bettor isn't going to want to deal with all the steps now (buy bitcoin, transfer to exchange, buy wagerr, transfer to wallet, bet, transfer back to exchange, buy bitcoin, transfer to other exchange, sell bitcoin and cash out).

That's on the roadmap actually, though it remains to be seen exactly which locations it will be available for at first and also a timeframe for it.

[bigtymer56]

That's on the roadmap actually, though it remains to be seen exactly which locations it will be available for at first and also a timeframe for it.

No offense....but being on the roadmap and actually pulling if off are two different things.

Whenever I read "its in the whitepaper or on the roadmap" this meme pops in my head lol:

[danshan11]

he thinks a 2% fee is reasonable for wagers, I mean I think this is crazy, this truly shows me they have zero clue how the book business works, most "real" books would die to get a 2% fee on bets.

and he says members here are part of the group, who which members? why dont they disclose themselves, why the secret. I will tell everyone right now I am invested in Amazon stock and I do put money on BOL and PInny, there is no secret here. IF you are an investor in this great project and a member here, come out support it, show your support!

please answer this lotus quit ducking and dodging

[JoeCool20]

LOL Don't ask him to come on here and make more excuses. Nobody is going to do it, and it is going to fail.

[lotuspod]

LOL Don't ask him to come on here and make more excuses. Nobody is going to do it, and it is going to fail.

There are ~2200 nodes already (which contain 25k WGR each), just waiting to upgrade. It's already happening, but whether these kinds of networks have any long-term success is still unclear...however this one is clearly the farthest along in development and has the most traction so far.

[lotuspod]

It's finally here, v2.0 is available for download.
https://github.com/wagerr/wagerr/releases/tag/v2.0.0

Masternode upgrade guide here, if needed -
https://wagerr.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/...s/360015640072

Also just featured in EGR's first crypto edition -
https://medium.com/wagerr-news/wager...n-be81d3ff3911

[qsgsg]

There is no cartel, anyone can run an Oracle by locking 25k wgr into it - which is refundable if/when you stop running it. Many of those who plan to run one or more of them are bettors themselves, low fees are important to them. I'm personally in favor of fees as low as safely possible too.

One thing to note, if you're staking a decent amount of wgr then the effective amount of fees you're paying is actually a bit lower - since you're essentially earning interest on any wgr that's just sitting in your wallet.

You wouldn't be unable to cash them out to another book either. All you'd have to do is swap them back for btc on one of the many exchanges. Trading fees on Waves (one of the exchanges we're on) for example are less than 1 cent.
There are a number of other solutions that could effectively lower the fees that are paid, we're still at the earliest stages of this project so it's important to note that this is nowhere near complete. We've just now only gotten the basic foundation set, there is still a lot more to be built upon this.

So if I have alot of wager coins i will start up many oracles and just monopolise everything and dictate the fees?

Swapping back to bitcoin is a hassle and another way to lose my money through unfavourable exchange rate. sounds like a hassle.

[lotuspod]

So if I have alot of wager coins i will start up many oracles and just monopolise everything and dictate the fees?
Swapping back to bitcoin is a hassle and another way to lose my money through unfavourable exchange rate. sounds like a hassle.

If it was monopolized, then it goes without saying that it would be centralized. Many precautions were taken early on to prevent this, including limits on the max buy back at the beginning.

You can view the top addresses with the explorer (link below), nobody is anywhere near having anything even close to resembling a controlling stake...and it simply wouldn't be economical or likely not even possible to buy out enough. If that was the case in crypto, BCH would likely be BTC. The few largest wallets in the list are distribution wallets and or wallets for other aspects of the project or exchanges, not owned/controlled by a single person/entity anyway.

https://explorer.wagerr.com/#/top

And who said the exchange rate has to be unfavorable? Trade fees are less than 1c on a few of the exchanges it's on, simply set your sell/buy order to the appropriate amount - similar to GDAX. Only takes a minute or two to log in and set the order.

[lotuspod]

Article covering technical aspects of their first type of betting - Direct-Chain, along with explaining fees in more detail.

https://medium.com/@WagerrSports/wag...n-938670fff5f4

[danshan11]

why are we still talking about this? Wagerr is probably a bust as a gambling platform and has nothing to do with sports betting really. They might have a very cool alt coin but I dont invest in alt coins, alt coins have not done so well lately

[qsgsg]

If it was monopolized, then it goes without saying that it would be centralized. Many precautions were taken early on to prevent this, including limits on the max buy back at the beginning.

You can view the top addresses with the explorer (link below), nobody is anywhere near having anything even close to resembling a controlling stake...and it simply wouldn't be economical or likely not even possible to buy out enough. If that was the case in crypto, BCH would likely be BTC. The few largest wallets in the list are distribution wallets and or wallets for other aspects of the project or exchanges, not owned/controlled by a single person/entity anyway.

https://explorer.wagerr.com/#/top

And who said the exchange rate has to be unfavorable? Trade fees are less than 1c on a few of the exchanges it's on, simply set your sell/buy order to the appropriate amount - similar to GDAX. Only takes a minute or two to log in and set the order.

Are you saying that it is impossible for a new alt coin to have a cartel controlling a majority of the oracle? Look at bitcoin and china. What if those chinese companies decide to team up together?


Wager might have started with the intention to create a decentralised low cost, fair betting platform but i sense that the focus has changed.


Bottom Line: unstable and potentially highly manipulated fees on Wager.

[lotuspod]

Bit of an update, halfway through the first week and well over 600k wgr has been bet. Over 100k coins were burned on the fight alone, since users went heavier on GGG. After that big coin BBQ however, users have been edging out some small wins in NFL and Champions League betting to mint a bit of extra wgr. Still a long way to go if they want to catch up to the chain/house though.

All of the info is transparent and can be found here - https://explorer.wagerr.com/#/betevents

Third-parties could also scrape the info directly from the chain if they wanted, among many other possibly useful things(with a bit of work of course).

[danshan11]

what was your closing line on the fight?

[danshan11]

I see you got open spots for juventus 3 way at 1.92 and its sitting at 1.88 at pinnacle but with your fees what I be actually getting it at? if I bet at your place at 1.92?

[Optional]

I see you got open spots for juventus 3 way at 1.92 and its sitting at 1.88 at pinnacle but with your fees what I be actually getting it at? if I bet at your place at 1.92?

1.8648

[Optional]

Is there a website version showing markets?

Having to download the wallet, a GB of data and then wait a long time for it to sync (been an hour for me so far and looks about half done) just to see what markets/odds are available is a bit much.

[lotuspod]

Checking the block explorer, but there might be a bit of lag due to how it retrieves data.

Once you've caught up on all of the previous blocks the first time with the desktop QT wallet, it's so much faster every time after that. One issue/limitation with the QT wallet, you have to switch back to the bet window to refresh events.

The best way for now (until the HTML5 wallet anyway) to quickly check it is with the mobile wallet if you have android, since it doesn't have to sync the whole chain. One of our Chinese community members created it and is maintaining it. Since its still very early in it's development, I'd recommend just putting what you plan to bet for the day or so on it just to be extra safe and keeping the rest in your main wallet or in cold storage.

https://github.com/LooorTor/wagerr-android/releases/

Speaking of cold storage, there are new guides/software for that and physical paper wallets in general. Another extra that is created and maintained by one of our users.

https://github.com/TidalWavesNode/Wa...ag/v2018.09.17

[Optional]

Will there be a website displaying markets?

[lotuspod]

Will there be a website displaying markets?

Yep that would be tied to the upcoming HTML5 wallet, which will look much better and have more features + far more events. The current QT wallet isn't anywhere near polished, and can't support too many events at once. But not a huge deal since it's getting replaced so soon, it works to demonstrate the basic features and have some fun with for now at least.

HTML5 wallet + H2H/Exchange betting are the two main things to look out for.