[Ewan101]

Hi All,

Most people reading this thread will be aware of the increasing number of "Bitcoin Only" bookmakers appearing on the net.

Bitcoin Only bookmakers require that you deposit in Bitcoin (BTC), wager in BTC and then withdraw in BTC.

A quick search using search term "Bitcoin Bookmakers" will show you the many new BTC only bookmakers now available.

In addition, most people will be aware that many established A+ bookmakers are now accepting BTC as a deposit and withdrawal method (although these established bookmakers will convert your BTC deposit into the account currency (e.g. USD) - all wagers are then placed in USD - and when you are ready to withdraw, the bookmaker will convert your USD balance back into BTC).

I have started this thread to specifically ask about a new BTC Only Bookmaker that is a clone of 5Dimes. This bookmaker exactly clones 5Dimes odds and lines.

A few months ago I have a vague memory of reading an article where this "BTC-Only 5Dimes Clone" was mentioned - but today after doing extensive searching I have not been able to find this article again and I have not been able to find the name of this bookmaker.

So - has anyone reading this heard of such a new bookmaker? If so, do you know its name?

All replies received with thanks.

[Optional]

Why would you want a bitcoin clone of 5Dimes when you can use bitcoin with them directly?

Sounds like a risk not worth thinking about to me.


And have not seen a thread about any book offering that I can recall.

[Ewan101]

Hi Optional. Thanks for your reply.

I am severely limited at 5Dimes - hence interested in this new bookmaker!

[Optional]

Hi Optional. Thanks for your reply.

I am severely limited at 5Dimes - hence interested in this new bookmaker!

Ah that makes sense.

But I'd be kind of shocked if anything but a really well funded book could blindly offer the same range and odds that 5D do without getting themselves into trouble.

[Ewan101]

Hi Optional. Yes I agree.

But this is not without precedent. There are at least two BTC only books out there right now that offer cloned lines and odds of an existing A+ bookmaker. So it can be done.

[Optional]

Nitrogen has done very well. But I imagine that their model is as much based on their belief in bitcoin long term as having to make a profit from the book.

Who else do you mean? DirectBet?

[Ewan101]

I was referring to Nitrogen and Fairlay.

Is DirectBet a clone?

[Optional]

Yeah Directbet uses Betfair with a few cents added and i think they lay bets off instantly there.

What does Fairlay clone? I thought they were a stand alone exchange.

[Ewan101]

I did an ad hoc observation of Fairlay over a few sports and they looked identical to Nitrogen.....

I have had a look at DirectBet and the model looks bad - the reason is that you can't sit there with a big BTC balance and place bets that are instantly accepted. Rather, each bet must be placed by making a BTC transfer for each bet - and in the methods I use I cannot have a situation where I am waiting to get my bet on at the odds I selected. In addition, making an individual BTC transfer per bet is very inconvenient and takes too much time. For these reasons I could never use DirectBet.

[jackkkk2009]

Any Matchbook clone US sites?

[evo34]

Fairlay offers an exact clone of Pinnacle, occasionally even tighter (NHL moneylines, for example). Their MM is linked to (or at least using) Pinnacle, such that smallish bets on Fairlay can directly move a line at Pinny.

They have been down for the past few hours, btw. No idea why.

[bettingmosquito]

Yeah Directbet uses Betfair with a few cents added and i think they lay bets off instantly there.

What does Fairlay clone? I thought they were a stand alone exchange.

I never heard about Directbet before... but I just had a quick look, their odds are good but still not equivalent to Betfair.

For example. Manchester United vs Bournemouth:
1.22 / X 6.0 / 12.5
At Betfair:
1.26 / X 6.8 / 15.5

Take off 5% on each Betfair odds, they are still a bit better. Or did you mean "with a few cents removed?".
But anyway thanks for the recommendation, decent one it seems.

[Ewan101]

Hi bettingmosquito and Optional,

I also did an ad hoc observation of DirectBet - - I compared DirectBet odds to Betfair odds (-5%) and Betfair were consistently better (even after taking 5% off the Betfair odds).

In fact - I could find no relationship between Betfair and DirectBet odds at all. I don't think they are meaningfully related in any way

[Optional]

Hi bettingmosquito and Optional,

I also did an ad hoc observation of DirectBet - - I compared DirectBet odds to Betfair odds (-5%) and Betfair were consistently better (even after taking 5% off the Betfair odds).

In fact - I could find no relationship between Betfair and DirectBet odds at all. I don't think they are meaningfully related in any way

Thanks for the input.

Did you notice that both sites use the same "Event Id" for each market?

https://www.betfair.com.au/exchange/...nt?id=28140304
https://directbet.eu/Event.cshtml?EventID=28140304

They are supposed to be using the Back odds as the bench.


A price change on Betfair in that match was immediately reflected on directbet just now.

Have not monitored odds but think you might be mistaken and they still are from Betfair and shaded like the book and others have pointed out many times.

[raiders72001]

Thanks for the input.

Did you notice that both sites use the same "Event Id" for each market?

https://www.betfair.com.au/exchange/...nt?id=28140304
https://directbet.eu/Event.cshtml?EventID=28140304

They are supposed to be using the Back odds as the bench.


A price change on Betfair in that match was immediately reflected on directbet just now.

Have not monitored odds but think you might be mistaken and they still are from Betfair and shaded like the book and others have pointed out many times.

That's exactly what they do but they take out much more. I think that their margins are the highest of all bitcoin books.

[raiders72001]

Webetcoins was the only 5Dimes clone. They have closed shop.

[Ewan101]

Hi Optional and raiders72001,

Thanks for your posts above re: DirectBet and its relationship to Betfair.

The event_id evidence above is definitive - you are both correct and I was absolutely incorrect to state there was no relationship between them. Clearly there is. Thank you for establishing this fact.

As to whether not I, as an individual, would ever use DirectBet: The answer is "No" for the following reasons:

1. The odds are so much worse than Betfair that I would never bet there. I would just bet at Betfair. The odds are so much worse than Betfair that even though there is a relationship (perhaps it is Betfair_Odds x 0.95 or something like that - I have not done the calculation) it may as well be that there is no relationship as the odds are simply not recognisable as "Betfair Odds"

2. You can't have a BTC balance with them (like a normal bookmaker) and place bets that are instantly accepted. Rather, each bet must be placed by making a BTC transfer for each bet - leaving you waiting to see whether or not your bet gets on at the odds you selected - BTC transfers take time - sometimes 45 minutes - there is no way I am waiting 45 minutes to see if my bet gets on or not. In addition, making an individual BTC transfer per bet is very inconvenient and takes too much time to actually make the transfer and do the housekeeping admin of creating records to reflect each transfer

[raiders72001]

Hi Optional and raiders72001,

Thanks for your posts above re: DirectBet and its relationship to Betfair.

The event_id evidence above is definitive - you are both correct and I was absolutely incorrect to state there was no relationship between them. Clearly there is. Thank you for establishing this fact.

As to whether not I, as an individual, would ever use DirectBet: The answer is "No" for the following reasons:

1. The odds are so much worse than Betfair that I would never bet there. I would just bet at Betfair. The odds are so much worse than Betfair that even though there is a relationship (perhaps it is Betfair_Odds x 0.95 or something like that - I have not done the calculation) it may as well be that there is no relationship as the odds are simply not recognisable as "Betfair Odds"

2. You can't have a BTC balance with them (like a normal bookmaker) and place bets that are instantly accepted. Rather, each bet must be placed by making a BTC transfer for each bet - leaving you waiting to see whether or not your bet gets on at the odds you selected - BTC transfers take time - sometimes 45 minutes - there is no way I am waiting 45 minutes to see if my bet gets on or not. In addition, making an individual BTC transfer per bet is very inconvenient and takes too much time to actually make the transfer and do the housekeeping admin of creating records to reflect each transfer

You made some great points. It's good to see in depth reviews.

[Ewan101]

Thanks Raiders. One correction I should make to the above is that when comparing Direct Bet and Betfair odds side by side:

1. First I look at Betfair odds and apply the standard 5% commission to them

2. I then compare the 5%-corrected Betfair odds to DirectBet

3. I then see what I have stated above: The DirectBet odds are so much worse than Betfair-5%-corrected-odds that even though there is a relationship (perhaps it is Betfair_5%_corrected_Odds x 0.95 or something like that - I have not done the calculation) it may as well be that there is no relationship as the odds are simply not recognisable as "Betfair Odds"

[Ewan101]

Hi Raiders72001,

Thanks for your post indiating that Webetcoins was the only 5Dimes clone and that they have now closed shop.

This is very interesting and valuable information.

Do you happen to know if this BTC Bookmaker actually paid out its customers OR do you know if some/all customers were left in the nightmare position of not being able to withdraw their balances?

I ask this as like many punters, I treat new BTC Bookmakers with care.

If WebBetCoins actually paid out this would give some confidence in the new BTC bookmakers as we move forward.

[littlekona]

I use direct bet mostly just for horse racing and some live soccer..I am in US and betfair is not available in my state...There odds are bad for most part BUT you can find value there at directbet though esp on USA and some UK tracks esp if you bet early plus being in US its all USA parimutuel pools on UK racing which are small so a decent wager kills the price...its my only option..my biggest issue with wagering at directbet is when your making many smaller wagers the miners fee kills you..there are days when I see i have sent 50 plus wagers at and average miners fee of 60cents or more..lots of profit down toilet. But I do like fact I can parlay horses and live soccer menu is very good and can be parlayed..I was going to give FAIRLAY a chance but see they are having issues as 2 times this weekend I visited site and it was down...Any info on them?

[raiders72001]

Thanks Raiders. One correction I should make to the above is that when comparing Direct Bet and Betfair odds side by side:

1. First I look at Betfair odds and apply the standard 5% commission to them

2. I then compare the 5%-corrected Betfair odds to DirectBet

3. I then see what I have stated above: The DirectBet odds are so much worse than Betfair-5%-corrected-odds that even though there is a relationship (perhaps it is Betfair_5%_corrected_Odds x 0.95 or something like that - I have not done the calculation) it may as well be that there is no relationship as the odds are simply not recognisable as "Betfair Odds"

When you look at the odds, I agree at first you would assume that there is no way there is a correlation. There is a direct correlation adding more take.

Many times you'll see that only one side is being offered at DirectBet. If you go to Betfair no offers will be up. There is a minimum amount needed at Betfair for lines to go up at DirectBet. I'm not sure of the amount.

[raiders72001]

Webetcoins was slow paying for months prior to going under. There may have been some no pays.

There are a lot of bitcoin books that have gone under. Stay with the top books such as Nitrogen and Betcoin. The only problem with Betcoin is their interface which can be frustrating. They are still a good book to have in your arsenal.

[Ewan101]

Hi littlekona,

Thanks for providing this information.

I don't personally have any info on Fairlay at the moment - perhaps a search on Fairlay here at SBR will yield some info?

It is interesting to me that you have been using DirectBet and that you report an issue with their betting model (i.e. that each bet must be a separate BTC transaction and you lose on the miner's fee as a result). Would you mind answering the following questions?:

1. When you place a bet at DirectBet does the bet just sit there as pending until the BTC transaction for the bet is processed?

2. Have you experienced a situation where you place your bet, you make the BTC transaction and by the time the BTC gets there the odds have moved against you? If so, what happens? Can you just void your bet and the BTC are returned to your wallet?

3. In the case where the odds have improved during the time between you place the bet and the BTC arrive, do you automatically get your bet on at the better odds or does your bet go on at the original odds?

4. How long do you typically have to wait between placing your bet and the BTC arriving? Isn't it very frustrating having to wait like that?


Overall I have to say the model of NOT having a BTC balance with DirectBet and having to send a BTC transaction per bet to DirectBet sounds terrible to me - - for the 4 reasons given in the questions above AND for the general reasons given in point 2 of my post further above.

5. What are your thoughts on this betting model, littlekona?

Thanks and Regards......

[raiders72001]

I use direct bet mostly just for horse racing and some live soccer..I am in US and betfair is not available in my state...There odds are bad for most part BUT you can find value there at directbet though esp on USA and some UK tracks esp if you bet early plus being in US its all USA parimutuel pools on UK racing which are small so a decent wager kills the price...its my only option..my biggest issue with wagering at directbet is when your making many smaller wagers the miners fee kills you..there are days when I see i have sent 50 plus wagers at and average miners fee of 60cents or more..lots of profit down toilet. But I do like fact I can parlay horses and live soccer menu is very good and can be parlayed..I was going to give FAIRLAY a chance but see they are having issues as 2 times this weekend I visited site and it was down...Any info on them?

Fairlay has been pretty good so far but as you mentioned, there were 2 down times lately. I think 3/2 and 3/4 but could be off.

I'm not 100% sure of security yet as they work as a bookmaker with a couple of market makers instead of a pure exchange.

[raiders72001]

Hi littlekona,

Thanks for providing this information.

I don't personally have any info on Fairlay at the moment - perhaps a search on Fairlay here at SBR will yield some info?

It is interesting to me that you have been using DirectBet and that you report an issue with their betting model (i.e. that each bet must be a separate BTC transaction and you lose on the miner's fee as a result). Would you mind answering the following questions?:

1. When you place a bet at DirectBet does the bet just sit there as pending until the BTC transaction for the bet is processed?

2. Have you experienced a situation where you place your bet, you make the BTC transaction and by the time the BTC gets there the odds have moved against you? If so, what happens? Can you just void your bet and the BTC are returned to your wallet?

3. In the case where the odds have improved during the time between you place the bet and the BTC arrive, do you automatically get your bet on at the better odds or does your bet go on at the original odds?

4. How long do you typically have to wait between placing your bet and the BTC arriving? Isn't it very frustrating having to wait like that?


Overall I have to say the model of NOT having a BTC balance with DirectBet and having to send a BTC transaction per bet to DirectBet sounds terrible to me - - for the 4 reasons given in the question above AND for the general reasons given in point 2 of my post above.

5. What are your thoughts on this betting model, littlekona?

Thanks and Regards......

I know that this wasn't directed towards me, so sorry for answering if not wanted.
DirectBet has an option of best available odds so that you can insure of getting your bet in if the odds were to change. I think that best available is their default choice. Under no circumstances you should take best available. A ridiculous offer may be the best at Betfair at that time.
There have been 4 or 5 stiff jobs at DirectBet caused by their unique model. Although this hasn't happened lately, if there is a problem with your wallet where the bet hasn't hit the blockchain, or a problem with DirectBet's wallet, you will not know if your bet is accepted until the problem is fixed. You may not get an accept/reject until mid-game.

[Ewan101]

Raiders: Thanks for the info re: WebBetCoins and lesser-known BTC books generally.

Thanks also for your post immediately above re: stiffjobs. I see the situation clearly and it is quite terrible. I would NEVER bet at DirectBet for this reason alone. When I place a bet I want to hit "confirm" and see the bet get on then and there. Any other system is completely unacceptable and it surprises me that anyone would place a bet like that - it is simply too risky.

[littlekona]

1. When you place a bet at DirectBet does the bet just sit there as pending until the BTC transaction for the bet is processed?

No, my experience has been the bet gets confirmed as soon as it hits without a confirmation needed as long as it meets your negotiated odds or you have flexible odds listed...It does give you option to cancel if you negotiate and cant get right odds..If it wins it lists as settlement in progress UNTIL the 1 confirmation then it sends the funds..

2. Have you experienced a situation where you place your bet, you make the BTC transaction and by the time the BTC gets there the odds have moved against you? If so, what happens? Can you just void your bet and the BTC are returned to your wallet?

Yes, I have had it move both ways when listed as flexible and if wager as negotiate it allows you to change your min odds and or cancel and it sends back to wallet after the 1 conformation.

3. In the case where the odds have improved during the time between you place the bet and the BTC arrive, do you automatically get your bet on at the better odds or does your bet go on at the original odds?

Ive had it drop sometimes and other times odds improve on flexible...when negotiate it normally actually gets me a tad better then i have listed...there odds change fast there esp on horse wagers which I do mostly

4. How long do you typically have to wait between placing your bet and the BTC arriving? Isn't it very frustrating having to wait like that?

No, the placing of bets is not frustrating part...they get confirmed in very fast and acceptable time...whats frustrating is #1 sending so many miners fees (now they do have there own wallet which may eliminate that I have to look into more...I just did not like its set up) #2 is settlement in process can take a while if you send many bets as its a big confirmation game of so many transaction which bulks and slows up your wallet...

Overall I am satisfied with them..there CS is good and they have never not paid me...I did have a few minor issues but that was due to my wallet not sending properly..I love the parlay ability of Horse wagers and like there live soccer and various soccer lines which are good and parlay of live is nice..their prices like Raiders says are most of time are 5-10 points off nitrogen but I mainly use for horses and live soccer parlays where I cant get any odds at most BTC books...Definitely room for improve but I rate them B

[Optional]

Good info Littlekona

And Raiders, as usual.

[raiders72001]

Good info Littlekona

Littlekona and Ewan added great stuff. Nothing better than personal experiences and thoughts since they can be different person to person.

[Ewan101]

Thanks for your replies to those questions littlekona. Thanks also to Optional, Raiders, bettingmosquito and evo34 for the various contributions.

[jjgold]

great material here

[trytrytry]

this is a great thread

[barnstorm]

Last I checked, BitCoinRush is an exact clone of 5Dimes, but they do not have the full Menu of Events that 5Dimes does, but they have the most popular events.
Update. My bad. Last time I checked, BitCoinRush is an exact clone of BetOnline, not 5Dimes. CloudBet is close to 5Dimes in some sports.
Sure you can deposit into 5Dimes with Bitcoin, but then they change it into USD. If you want to keep it in Bitcoin, then choose BitCoinRush. Of course, that means you will be subject to the ups and downs of Bitcoin, which for some, may be more of a gamble than sports betting! I doubled my money in the past year just by having my money in Bitcoin Sportsbooks instead of USD. Of course, that could all change in the next year.

Fairlay is a great clone of Pinnacle. Nitrogen, Betcoin.ag and Betballer are a bit off from Pinnacle.

Anyone know of a European clone of 5Dimes, or same odds as 5Dimes?

Big list of Clones here:
https://www.arbitrageguides.com/clone-bookmakers/

Thanks!

[RonPaul2008]

GTBets clones 5dimes, but they are not shy about heavily collaring sharps. SBR doesn't seem to rate bitcoinrush. Are they good? Anyone here use them?

Last I checked, BitCoinRush is an exact clone of 5Dimes, but they do not have the full Menu of Events that 5Dimes does, but they have the most popular events.

Sure you can deposit into 5Dimes with Bitcoin, but then they change it into USD. If you want to keep it in Bitcoin, then choose BitCoinRush. Of course, that means you will be subject to the ups and downs of Bitcoin, which for some, may be more of a gamble than sports betting! I doubled my money in the past year just by having my money in Bitcoin Sportsbooks instead of USD. Of course, that could all change in the next year.

Fairlay is a great clone of Pinnacle. Nitrogen, Betcoin.ag and Betballer are a bit off from Pinnacle.

Anyone know of a European clone of 5Dimes, or same odds as 5Dimes?

Big list of Clones here:
https://www.arbitrageguides.com/clone-bookmakers/

Thanks!