Scammed selling on Localbitcoins..........any suggestions?

[Frank]

Sold some BTC on localbitcoins a few weeks back.

The buyer sent me money through Zelle to my bank.

I got it and released the BTC.

About 16 days later my bank takes the money out of my account.

I call the bank and they tell me the buyer's bank called and said the buyer claimed he never authorized the Zelle transfer and that his money would be sent back.

I contact with Zelle and they say I have to contact the bank.

I contact the bank and they tell me to contact the buyer.

I contact Localbitcoins and they tell me to call the police.

Localbitcoins banned the scammer but has not yet or is not willing to give me the scammer's verified name, verified phone number or IP address.

Am I pretty much screwed?

Any suggestions?

[raiders72001]

Sold some BTC on localbitcoins a few weeks back.

The buyer sent me money through Zelle to my bank.

I got it and released the BTC.

About 16 days later my bank takes the money out of my account.

I call the bank and they tell me the buyer's bank called and said the buyer claimed he never authorized the Zelle transfer and that his money would be sent back.

I contact with Zelle and they say I have to contact the bank.

I contact the bank and they tell me to contact the buyer.

I contact Localbitcoins and they tell me to call the police.

Localbitcoins banned the scammer but has not yet or is not willing to give me the scammer's verified name, verified phone number or IP address.

Am I pretty much screwed?

Any suggestions?

Really no help here but did you look at his reputation and transactions prior to selling.

[themike78]

Dam. That sucks. I trade with zelle all the time and thought it was not reversable. Yeah you have to make sure the trader has excellent reputation first. I would find out if the transfer came from within the U.S. and then if you can find out what State it came from. Then file a police report with that state or city wherever it came from. Also your bank should be able to give you the sender's info if localbitcoins wont. If it came from a foreign country it will be much more difficult.

[Optional]

If it is enough money, I would do a google search for a local lawyer specializing in crypto currency fraud.

[Frank]

Really no help here but did you look at his reputation and transactions prior to selling.

Feedback score was 98%

He had 100+ transactions with 163 different partners.

Account was over a year old and verified 2 or 3 months ago.

He was trusted by like 21.

Had zero negative complaints and about 42 good comments.........up until recently.

From about the date of my trade, it looks like he scammed 4 others as well.

[Frank]

Dam. That sucks. I trade with zelle all the time and thought it was not reversable. Yeah you have to make sure the trader has excellent reputation first. I would find out if the transfer came from within the U.S. and then if you can find out what State it came from. Then file a police report with that state or city wherever it came from. Also your bank should be able to give you the sender's info if localbitcoins wont. If it came from a foreign country it will be much more difficult.

I believe Zelle is non-reversible.

It wasn't reversed.

A fraud claim was made with the bank and they returned the money.

Now I don't have any idea if the buyer was the one who did this or if the buyer hacked some unsuspecting person's account and sent money through Zelle or what.

Who knows, the scammer could have partnered up with someone willing to give out bank information and then file a fraud case with the bank saying it wasn't him.

[eaglesfan371]

Any online processor is 100% reversible, including zelle. I keep telling people and someone said I was an idiot yesterday for saying Paypal is reversible. If someone can report FRAUD to a 3rd party and potentially recover their funds, it is a reversible method.

There is a reason the zelle buyers on localbitcoins buy for 3-5% more than cash price...cause many are hackers who have victims ready to send $ from via zelle...

You are indeed, unfortunately, screwed.

[eaglesfan371]

If it is enough money, I would do a google search for a local lawyer specializing in crypto currency fraud.

Go on bitcointalk, this, paypal and other frauds have happened 1000 times. Bitcoin is used by gamblers, investors and SCAMMERS. They hack bank accounts, use the banks to buy bitcoin, then disappear with the bitcoin. ID? Its so easy to buy fake passports in the dark webs. There are literallly books on how to scam people via paypal, zelle, Chase quickpay, etc on the dark markets.

You're not going to be able to get any money and lawyer wouldnt even be worth the trouble for $10k, let alone a few thousand or less.
Never forget, bitcoin is the wild west. Scammers are everywhere. Cash only. Always.

[JaimeMiro]

Wouldn't it be better not to link your bank account and to always withdraw everything after a transaction as all ewallets have a charge back option?. For instance, in some countries ewallets like Skrill/Paypal have mastercards you can use to withdraw. You can fund your ewallet account via crypto, so even if they report fraud the wallet can only restrict your account

[Goatman]

Feedback score was 98%

He had 100+ transactions with 163 different partners.

Account was over a year old and verified 2 or 3 months ago.

He was trusted by like 21.

Had zero negative complaints and about 42 good comments.........up until recently.

From about the date of my trade, it looks like he scammed 4 others as well.

I trade on LocalBitcoins all the time, and I would say his 98% would be a red flag for me. I only trade with people with absolutely 100% and hundreds or thousands of trades, with the extremely rare instance where they have a 99% and I read the negative reviews and it's just one guy complaining about something dumb. The vast majority of traders with less than 99% on there are assholes or scammers. Sorry this happened to you, man. I hope it wasn't a huge amount.

[SnakesPicks]

Feedback score was 98%

He had 100+ transactions with 163 different partners.

Account was over a year old and verified 2 or 3 months ago.

He was trusted by like 21.

Had zero negative complaints and about 42 good comments.........up until recently.

From about the date of my trade, it looks like he scammed 4 others as well.

What often happens at LocalBitcoins is that a scammer will buy or hack a well rated account there, scam and then disappear. The only ratings there that you can sort of trust is people with several thousand transactions.

[Optional]

Go on bitcointalk, this, paypal and other frauds have happened 1000 times. Bitcoin is used by gamblers, investors and SCAMMERS. They hack bank accounts, use the banks to buy bitcoin, then disappear with the bitcoin. ID? Its so easy to buy fake passports in the dark webs. There are literallly books on how to scam people via paypal, zelle, Chase quickpay, etc on the dark markets.

You're not going to be able to get any money and lawyer wouldnt even be worth the trouble for $10k, let alone a few thousand or less.
Never forget, bitcoin is the wild west. Scammers are everywhere. Cash only. Always.

You sound like you assume chasing the scammer is the only option.

But there are two banks, Zelle and LBC involved as well as the scammer and victim.

It's going to be free or almost nothing to get initial advice from a lawyer specializing in Bitcoin fraud, and they should be able to tell you fast and up front if there are options with those entities involved.

[eaglesfan371]

What often happens at LocalBitcoins is that a scammer will buy or hack a well rated account there, scam and then disappear. The only ratings there that you can sort of trust is people with several thousand transactions.

This is true. You will see most zelle buyers have 100% feedback but haven’t had feedback in several years.

[TheMoneyShot]

I feel for you Frank. Sad story.

Fukking a$$hole people in this world

[Dr.Gonzo]

sucks

[DroopyDog]

this is why a lot of sellers request ID and selfies..and written notes... for proof they did authorize. and you can show the bank and let them know of the scam they are running, they wont want him as a customer

[Frank]

I contacted a local Crypto attorney just to see my options.

I am waiting to hear back.

Localbitcoins replied and said that they will not give me any information on the scammer, but would cooperate with police, if I filed a report.

Just gonna sit back and see what the attorney says.

[Sanity Check]

this is why a lot of sellers request ID

Lookup how many places sell fake IDs on the internet.

Then read this:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/afontevecchia/2012/07/16/hsbc-helped-terrorists-iran-mexican-drug-cartels-launder-money-senate-report-says/

[NYproGambler]

wow... this is news... One time i sent money through zelle which went through fine... later one, I tried to use zelle to buy more coin through different seller but it wasnt going to let me do new transaction till i verify the first one. So I went ahead and verified the first one... once it was verified, it send another $100 to previous seller. so long story short, bank didn't want to help me and said you have to contact your friend and get $100 back.. and seller refused to refund the money back to me so I have to put a claim and ended up getting $100 worth of coin later on... so I always thought there is no absolute possible way to reverse the zelle payments..

[Frank]

Just a quick update.

Spoke to a crypto attorney briefly.

He told me that they could possibly file claims with the bank since the party waited more than a certain amount of time to report the "fraud claim".

He also told me they could try to recover the funds from localbitcoins.

He said they can't guarantee anything but would try for a fee of $5K.

What I was scammed for was for less than that, so I won't be going that route with them.

He did recommend filing a police report, so I plan on doing that just to get the scammer's verified information.

Not sure what I can do with it but maybe I'll find someone to do it cheaper.

[Roscoe_Word]

Awful that you have to go through this. You're being patient and determined. GL, hope there's a resolution.

[thespeculator]

Just a quick update.

Spoke to a crypto attorney briefly.

He told me that they could possibly file claims with the bank since the party waited more than a certain amount of time to report the "fraud claim".

He also told me they could try to recover the funds from localbitcoins.

He said they can't guarantee anything but would try for a fee of $5K.

What I was scammed for was for less than that, so I won't be going that route with them.

He did recommend filing a police report, so I plan on doing that just to get the scammer's verified information.

Not sure what I can do with it but maybe I'll find someone to do it cheaper.

this happened to me with the canadian version called interac. I thought it wasn't reversible also. Now i just stick with 3 traders even if they don't have the best prices. Not worth the risk
I showed the bank my transcript of the trade and they eventually gave it back . My amount was only 500 canadian

[Frank]

Quick update:

I filed the local police report as localbitcoins advised me to do.

The detective called me and said he contacted them and they would not give any information because they are from Finland and do not work with local police in the USA.

They told him that I would have to go through the FBI.

The detective told me that the FBI won't bother unless it's 6 figures.

Still working on dealing with my bank, who has been totally uncooperative as well.

[Frank]

Another update:

I have been hit 3 more times with Zelle reversals.

I stopped using Zelle back in July when this 1st happened.

3 more users have claimed fraud to their bank and got their cash back, while stealing my BTC.

All of these transactions were done months ago and just recently getting reversed.

The police can do nothing.

Localbitcoins.com doesn't give a shit.

They just say they will ban the user.

That does nothing.

The whole site is full of scammers who just scam, get banned, then come back and scam again.

I have asked them numerous times what they are doing to prevent scamming and they avoid answering anything.

They don't care because they get their cut of the scams.

US Bank, who is the bank that that sent my cash back to the fraudsters, doesn't care and won't even let me file a fraud case.

I provided them with all the details and the police report and they will not even take it.

They refuse to speak to me, telling me I have to speak with the bank manager only.

The bank manager says it has nothing to do with his branch and he can do nothing.

Shame on Localbitcoins.com for letting scammers and fraudsters take over probably 90% of their site and doing nothing about it.

Shame on US Bank for sending money back to scammers without even contacting me until after the money is gone, and then refusing to hear or see any evidence.

I have plenty of other BTC sales that have not been reversed..............yet.

Who knows how long before those get reversed, as it seems any scammer can do it whenever they want.

[JoeCool20]

Take all your money out of that bank. Then if they reverse another zelle your account will be negative,

then you can tell them you don't care and then ask them how they like it. Maybe they would help then!

[TennisAceE]

Never- Ever- use LocalBitcoins.
Sorry for you to have to learn the hard way.

[themike78]

Never- Ever- use LocalBitcoins.
Sorry for you to have to learn the hard way.

Localbitcoins is great. I trade there often and out of 1000 trades I got scammed once only because I got lazy and didn't check the persons reputation. Sometimes you can get better rates there buying than from those ripoff exchanges. And if you are patient selling you can make a good profit. It's like any person to person trading place there will always be scammers you just need to be careful who you deal with.

[Tf1890]

This is horrible I hope you will find justice in here somehow from lbc

[Mr.Beast]

never- ever- use sell on localbitcoins.
sorry for you to have to learn the hard way.

fify


As for you, OP:

I have been hit 3 more times with Zelle reversals.

Noooo....get OUT!
/s

I stopped using Zelle back in July when this 1st happened.

Why? None of this was Zelle's (Early Warning's) fault. My disdain for banks notwithstanding, if anything, they should ban you from Zelle access for willfully breaking the TOS.

3 more users have claimed fraud to their bank and got their cash back, while stealing my BTC.

Now, who could've seen that coming?? A professional market maker, perhaps?
rhetorical question: Are you one of those?

All of these transactions were done months ago and just recently getting reversed. The police can do nothing.

Oh, yes they can. Well, the aforementioned FBI could but you're not exactly on their radar. You seem to be ignorant to (among other things) the fact that you were breaking multiple federal laws by offering financial exchange services to the general public sans regulatory approval as a registered Money Service Business from FinCEN, the enforcement arm of The U.S. Treasury. You be Money Transmittin' w/o BEING a so-called Money Transmitter, proper. They don't like that.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and assume that you also negated AML/KYC procedural compliance. That you failed to maintain the requisite records should a G-man (or DHS, NSA, etc) come a knockin' with questions about a previous "trade" (a fairly common occurence, tbh). That you don't even know wtf a SAR is nor have any knowledge of the BSA.
I know several people on a personal and/or professional level who committed similar offenses on a different level. They all either: a) took pleas and sat/are sitting in a prison cell for 1yr minimum or: b) went completely broke mounting a "successful" legal defense. Also, save for one particularly defiant individual (God bless him), they were all were forced to turn over every bit of crypto in their possession to the guberment. Guess who got the longest sentence?

Localbitcoins.com doesn't give a shit.

To be fair, they are indeed bound by strict EU privacy laws. They also see this sort of thing every. single. day. Frankly, had you "given more of a shit", you would have done a little (lot) of research before embarking on this failed OTC crypto misadventure. Instead of whining in public forum, you should hide with your tail between your legs. I'm embarrassed for you.

They just say they will ban the user. That does nothing. The whole site is full of scammers who just scam, get banned, then come back and scam again.

What are you? New?? Welcome to the world, son. This isn't exclusive to LocalBitcoins nor crypto at all, for that matter. Anytime there is a mark with terrible OpSec, an unscrupulous but inellectually superior lowlife will be waiting in the wings...low hanging fruit. There will always be wolves and there will always be lambs for them to feed on.

I have asked them numerous times what they are doing to prevent scamming a"nd they avoid answering anything.

We've already identified your level of cringeworthy ineptitude within this realm but you also ou clearly have no f'n clue how LocalBitcoins operates. THEY ARE AN ESCROW SERVICE. That is it. Nothing more. But it just so happens, the entire website is absolutely littered with warnings, check boxes, radio buttons, guides, etc. all designed to warn idiots such as yourself from being hoodwinked. Also, an entire forum where "yours truly" responded to multiple fools in the same boat as you on an absolute daily basis...for years.
IT ABSOLUTELY BEARS MENTION that the forum is now defunct b/c a hacker (in quite impressive fashion, really) managed to infiltrate the back end via this third-party provided medium. Within a very short window, the thief was then able to access the site hot-wallet and drained as many accounts as he/she could. Guess what? LocalBitcoins immediately reimbursed every one of the affected users. Not only that, in a rare (but necessary in this case) instance of transparency, they kept the forum available viewable archive form. The last posts you can read are those of the affected traders posting about their misfortune and those of us replying to them.

They don't care because they get their cut of the scams.

lmao
stupid comment is stupid
sour grapes

US Bank, who is the bank that that sent my cash back to the fraudsters, doesn't care and won't even let me file a fraud case. I provided them with all the details and the police report and they will not even take it. They refuse to speak to me, telling me I have to speak with the bank manager only. The bank manager says it has nothing to do with his branch and he can do nothing.

Far be it from me to side with banksters but they are well within their right in this case. Again, you're lucky they haven't closed your account and banned you. Zelle isn't a payment processor for wannabe (nor legitimate) OTC Bitcoin traders. Those who use is as such should know what they are getting into. Not sure which is more appauling, your sense of entitlement or marked ignorance.

Shame on Localbitcoins.com for letting scammers and fraudsters take over probably 90% of their site and doing nothing about it.

Nah. LocalBitcoins is an absolute INSTITUTION in the Bitcoin realm. They were Bitcoin before Bitcoin was cool. They have been doing this long before your brazen failure and they'll be doing long into the foreseeable future. They provide an EXCELLENT escrow service. They are not perfect and I've butted heads with them several times over the years, myself. However, they make things right when THEY are in the wrong. That is not even CLOSE to the case here, guy. You're delusional.

(more inane blathering and misguided whining)

Hate to burst your bubble, but LocalBitcoins didn't get where they are as some fly-by-night haven for the morally corrupt. Hundreds of millions of successful trades have taken place. Many happy buyers have been served well by sellers possessing varied degree of plain ol' "know-wtf-I'm-doin". My federally registered (sole member) LLC has funnelled ***NINE USD FIGURES*** worth of crypto through their service over the years. NINE f'n figures, bruh. Granted, I am an extreme case...an outlier (a legend, really). But I make a very comfortable living as an OTC provider. At times, I've been the highest-volume U.S. based trader across all platforms. I've seen it all, bub. Daily hack/scam/fraud attempts, violent robbery, money laundering, other attempts at various criminal activity, bad sellers, bad buyers, LE shake-downs, "the knock" (more than once) and some things I'm not at liberty to even mention.

TBH, my venture into this realm many years ago was like yours in that I had NO idea just how crazy it would be (you still don't, trust me). But that's where the similarity ends. So go ahead, call "bullshit" on my assertions (I know it's coming). Whine some more. Point fingers. Refuse to man up and take responsibility. I expect nothing more from the likes of you. But there is literally nothing you can intelligently say to counter my admonishment of your idiocy. Simply put, you are wrong on every single count.

You're just a drop in the bucket from a proverbial sea of self-rightous bafoons.




<mic drop>

[winnerloser]

beast, whats a guy like you doing on SBR

[PD77]

beast, whats a guy like you doing on SBR

Looks to be breaking Franks balls and tooting his own horn to me.

[bitcoinLuke]

Why would anyone use localbitcoins? Just asking to get scammed

[cowboyinscotland]

Localbitcoins is a scammers paradise!

Stay clear!

[Jared Brooks]

Localbitcoins is a scammers paradise!
Stay clear!

In my experience this is wrong. Localbitcoins has been an excellent service for years. Just be very careful to make sure you do your research before using it since scammers do find their way onto the platform.

[Limited]

Why Localbitcoin, why not Coinbase, Kraken, Bitstamp etc... there are many safe options out there. Bitcoin itself is not a Wild West, actually it is very transparent and traceable network. Way more people are scammed just using the traditional banking or online solutions or even cash, than bitcoin.