1. #1
    bigboydan
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    Bonds supporters -what do you think now

    Beginning in 1998 with injections in his buttocks of Winstrol, a powerful steroid, Barry Bonds took a wide array of performance-enhancing drugs over at least five seasons in a massive doping regimen that grew more sophisticated as the years went on, according to Game of Shadows, a book written by two San Francisco Chronicle reporters at the forefront of reporting on the BALCO steroid distribution scandal.

    (An excerpt of Game of Shadows that details Bonds' steroid use appears exclusively in the March 13 issue of Sports Illustrated, which is available on newsstands beginning on Wednesday. The book's publication date is March 27).

    The authors, Mark Fainaru-Wada and Lance Williams, describe in sometimes day-to-day, drug-by-drug detail how often and how deeply Bonds engaged in the persistent doping. For instance, the authors write that by 2001, when Bonds broke Mark McGwire's single-season home-run record (70) by belting 73, Bonds was using two designer steroids referred to as the Cream and the Clear, as well as insulin, human growth hormone, testosterone decanoate (a fast-acting steroid known as Mexican beans) and trenbolone, a steroid created to improve the muscle quality of cattle.

    BALCO tracked Bonds' usage with doping calendars and folders -- detailing drugs, quantities, intervals and Bonds' testosterone levels -- that wound up in the hands of federal agents upon their Sept. 3, 2003 raid of the Burlingame, Calif., business.

    Depending on the substance, Bonds used the drugs in virtually every conceivable form: injecting himself with a syringe or being injected by his trainer, Greg Anderson, swallowing pills, placing drops of liquid under his tongue, and, in the case of BALCO's notorious testosterone-based cream, applying it topically.

    According to the book, Bonds gulped as many as 20 pills at a time and was so deeply reliant on his regimen that he ordered Anderson to start "cycles" -- a prescribed period of steroid use lasting about three weeks -- even when he was not due to begin one. Steroid users typically stop usage for a week or two periodically to allow the body to continue to produce natural testosterone; otherwise, such production diminishes or ceases with the continued introduction of synthetic forms of the muscle-building hormone.

    Bonds called for the re-starting of cycles when he felt his energy and power start to drop. If Anderson told Bonds he was not due for another cycle, the authors write, Bonds would tell him, "F--- off, I'll do it myself.''

    The authors compiled the information over a two-year investigation that included, but was not limited to, court documents, affidavits filed by BALCO investigators, confidential memoranda of federal agents (including statements made to them by athletes and trainers), grand jury testimony, audiotapes and interviews with more than 200 sources. Some of the information previously was reported by the authors in the Chronicle. Some of the information is new. For instance, in an extensive note on sourcing, the authors said memos detailing statements by BALCO owner Victor Conte, vice president James Valente and Anderson to IRS special agent Jeff Novitzky were sealed when they first consulted them, but have been unsealed since.

    The preponderance of evidence is by far the most detailed and damning condemnation that Bonds, formerly a sleek five-tool player, built himself into a hulking, record-setting home run hitter at an advanced baseball age with a cornucopia of elaborate, illegally-administered chemicals. Through 1998, for instance, when he turned 34, Bonds averaged one home run every 16.1 at bats. Since then -- what the authors identify as the start of his doping regimen -- Bonds has hit home runs nearly twice as frequently (one every 8.5 at bats).

    The authors describe how Bonds turned to steroids after the 1998 season because he was jealous of McGwire. Bonds hit 37 home runs in '98 -- a nice total and the fourth most of his career at that point -- but he was ignored by fans and the media who were captivated by McGwire's 70 home runs and his duel for the record with Sammy Sosa, who hit 66 that year.

    According to the book, Bonds, in comments to his mistress, Kimberly Bell, often dismissed McGwire with racially-charged remarks such as, "They're just letting him do it because he's a white boy." But Bonds looked at McGwire and his hulking physique and decided he needed to dramatically increase his muscle mass to compete with him.

    It was immediately after that 1998 season, the book said, that Bonds hooked up with Anderson, a gym rat known to obtain steroids and growth hormone from AIDS patients in San Francisco who were legally prescribed the drugs but sold them to make money. The authors write that the San Francisco Giants, Bonds' employer, would later discover through a background check that Anderson was connected to a gym that was known as a place to score steroids and that he was rumored to be a dealer. Yet the Giants -- who didn't want to upset their superstar -- continued to allow Anderson free reign about their ballpark and inside their clubhouse.

    The authors write that Anderson started Bonds on Winstrol, also known as stanozolol, the longtime favorite steroid of bodybuilders, disgraced sprinter Ben Johnson and baseball player Rafael Palmeiro. In 100 days, Bonds packed on 15 pounds of muscle, and at age 35 hit home runs at the best rate of his career, once every 10.4 at bats. But he also grew too big, too fast. He tore his triceps tendon, telling Bell that the steroids "makes me grow faster, but if you're not careful, you can blow it out."

    The book said Anderson and Bonds subsequently tweaked the program, adding such drugs as the steroid Deca-Durabolin and growth hormone, which allowed Bonds to retain his energy and physique without rigorous training. Not only did the growth hormone keep him fresh, but after complaining in 1999 about difficulty tracking pitches, he noticed it improved his eyesight as well.

    Bonds added more drugs after the 2000 season, when Anderson hooked up Bonds with BALCO and its founder, Conte, according to the authors. In addition to the Cream and the Clear, the steroids designed to be undetectable, Bonds took such drugs as Clomid, a women's infertility drug thought to help a steroid user recover his natural testosterone production, and Modafinil, a narcolepsy drug used as a powerful stimulant.

    Whereas Anderson's drug acumen had been forged in the gym culture, Conte and his chemists brought Bonds to another level of sophistication, by prescribing him elaborate ****tails of drugs designed to be even more effective and undetectable. For instance, the authors write that in 2002, when Bonds won his fifth MVP Award and had a .700 on-base percentage in the World Series, he was fueled by meticulous three-week cycles in which he injected growth hormone every other day, took the Cream and the Clear in the days in between, and capped the cycle with Clomid. The cycle was followed by one week off. The authors write that Anderson usually administered the drugs to Bonds at Bonds' home, using a needle to inject the growth hormone and a syringe without a needle to squirt the Clear under his tongue.

    In addition to detailing the drug usage, the excerpt portrays Bonds as a menacing boor, a tax cheat and an adulterer given to (probably because of the rampant steroid use) sexual dysfunction, hair loss and wild mood swings that included periods of rage. The authors report that Bonds gave Bell, with whom he continued his affair after his second marriage in January 1998, $80,000 in cash in 2001 from memorabilia income not reported to the IRS. Theirs was a volatile relationship. Bell retained answering machine recordings of him after he threatened to kill her, remarking that if she disappeared no one would be able to prove he even knew her.

    In 2003, as their relationship completely unraveled, Bell angered Bonds by showing up late for a hotel rendezvous. According to the excerpt, Bonds put his hand around her throat, pressed her against a wall and whispered, "If you ever f-----' pull some s--- like that again I'll kill you, do you understand me?"

    A few weeks later, the authors write, Bonds told Bell, "You need to disappear."

    In secret grand jury testimony obtained by the authors, Bonds testified that he did not know what the substances were that Anderson gave him and he put in his body, saying at one point, "It's like, 'Whatever, dude.'" Bonds testified under a grant of immunity, though he was told the immunity did not extend to perjury.

    Bonds begins this season with 708 home runs, seven short of passing Babe Ruth for second on the all-time list and 48 from surpassing Hank Aaron as the all-time leader. Three knee surgeries limited Bonds to 14 games last season, have reduced his mobility and left in question his fitness for regular duty this year.

    In October, Conte was sentenced to four months in prison and four months of home confinement as part of a plea deal with prosecutors. Anderson pled guilty to money laundering and a steroid distribution charge. He was sentenced to three months in prison and three months of home confinement. Valente pled guilty to reduced charges of steroid distribution and was sentenced to probation.

  2. #2
    The Great One
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    Don't have a problem with it at all. Never did. I think if you are a professional athlete, you should use steroids in most conditions. You are getting paid millions of dollars to perform a certain physical skill that most others can't. It's not like some average Joe can take steroids, then go out there and hit 60 home runs.

    I'm always supported pro's using steroids. In terms of records that are broken, thats a joke. You're average college baseball player these days is a hell of a lot more talented player than a MLB All-star in 1952. Thats why the HOF doesn't matter.

    Same for other sports. A 4 star recruit in high school is better than an All-star in the NBA in say 1970. Back then, they didn't even have talent or know how to dribble between their legs or behind their back.

    This is one of the reasons I think the Hall of Fame is a joke in sports along with comparing certain players from different eras. I'll tell ya right now, I'm a better athlete than Ty Cobb. Watch those people run, it's not even real. Did they even workout then?

  3. #3
    Dead Money
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    I think every one already knew this. It was just a question of time before the truth came out.

    It is time to retire Barry.

  4. #4
    Willie Bee
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dead Money
    I think every one already knew this. It was just a question of time before the truth came out.
    Yep. File it under 'the sun rose in the east today.'

  5. #5
    The Great One
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    "Steroid users typically stop usage for a week or two periodically to allow the body to continue to produce natural testosterone; otherwise, such production diminishes or ceases with the continued introduction of synthetic forms of the muscle-building hormone."


    All you have to do is read this exerpt from the article. This tells me right there that these people that are writing this have absolutely no idea what they are talking about.

    When using steroids, whatever time you are "on", you in general have equal time "off". So if he goes a 10-12 week cycle which is typical. He will not be off for one or two weeks. That would just cause unstable blood levels and diminished gains. You're natural testosterone production would not come back by then. Typical morons in the media that have no clue.

  6. #6
    presley177
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Great One

    Same for other sports. A 4 star recruit in high school is better than an All-star in the NBA in say 1970. Back then, they didn't even have talent or know how to dribble between their legs or behind their back.

    This is one of the reasons I think the Hall of Fame is a joke in sports along with comparing certain players from different eras. I'll tell ya right now, I'm a better athlete than Ty Cobb. Watch those people run, it's not even real. Did they even workout then?
    wow...better than Ty Cobb?

  7. #7
    presley177
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    Bonds is a crybaby. His stats should have asteriks next to them and he's just a total p.o.s


    : ) in my opinion.

  8. #8
    Alamorich
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    I'm long time Giants fan...already knew he was doping but don't care as long as he is on my team. Lots a bad guys in the hall of fame as already pointed out.

  9. #9
    onlooker
    I'm still watching...
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    Really no surprise to anyone. Im just wondering when Bonds will break down and actually admit it himself. That will be the day that surprises us all.

  10. #10
    Illusion
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    Bonds doesn't care about anything else but the all time homerun record. He's a cheat that won't get it.

  11. #11
    hanco21
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    I lost all respect for Bonds as soon as he backed out of the World baseball Classic.

  12. #12
    maritime
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Great One
    Don't have a problem with it at all. Never did. I think if you are a professional athlete, you should use steroids in most conditions. You are getting paid millions of dollars to perform a certain physical skill that most others can't. It's not like some average Joe can take steroids, then go out there and hit 60 home runs.

    I'm always supported pro's using steroids. In terms of records that are broken, thats a joke. You're average college baseball player these days is a hell of a lot more talented player than a MLB All-star in 1952. Thats why the HOF doesn't matter.

    Same for other sports. A 4 star recruit in high school is better than an All-star in the NBA in say 1970. Back then, they didn't even have talent or know how to dribble between their legs or behind their back.

    This is one of the reasons I think the Hall of Fame is a joke in sports along with comparing certain players from different eras. I'll tell ya right now, I'm a better athlete than Ty Cobb. Watch those people run, it's not even real. Did they even workout then?

    Hank Aaron sucked.

  13. #13
    tacomax
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    I really don't understand why people give Bonds specifically a bad rap. If you've got a beef with anyone it should be against the MLB authorities who - if Bonds has been doped up for years - has let him get away with it and make a mockery of the game.

    Athletes always try and get an edge in any sport - it should be the responsibility of the sport's governing body to ensure that they're unable to get away with it.

  14. #14
    Willie Bee
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    My sentiments exactly, taco. I've always maintained that the crime was not players doing it, but that it took so long to address and correct. The individual certainly has to take responsibility, but the way management turned such a blind eye to it was preposterous.

  15. #15
    presley177
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacomax
    I really don't understand why people give Bonds specifically a bad rap. If you've got a beef with anyone it should be against the MLB authorities who - if Bonds has been doped up for years - has let him get away with it and make a mockery of the game.

    Athletes always try and get an edge in any sport - it should be the responsibility of the sport's governing body to ensure that they're unable to get away with it.
    you have a point with mlb being able to keep the integrity of the game but Bonds doesn't deserve a pass on this. Plus steroids or not...he's an asshole.

  16. #16
    maritime
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacomax
    I really don't understand why people give Bonds specifically a bad rap. If you've got a beef with anyone it should be against the MLB authorities who - if Bonds has been doped up for years - has let him get away with it and make a mockery of the game.

    Athletes always try and get an edge in any sport - it should be the responsibility of the sport's governing body to ensure that they're unable to get away with it.

    Yeah, it's the same with life in general. If these damn police officers would do their job right, maybe people wouldn't break the law. I mean, it's not their fault they broke the law. It's the police and our legal system that's at fault. Come on guys... Maybe we should teach our kids to cheat on tests at school. It'd just be the teachers fault for letting them get away with it.

    Big problem with society today is people not being held accountable for their actions. It's McDonald's fault that your fat and eat value meals everyday, so let's sue McDonald's...etc. Bonds is a cheat and a disgrace to every honorable player that ever busted their ass to make it in sports the right way.
    Last edited by maritime; 03-10-06 at 03:57 PM.

  17. #17
    tacomax
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    Quote Originally Posted by maritime
    Yeah, it's the same with life in general. If these damn police officers would do their job right, maybe people wouldn't break the law. I mean, it's not their fault they broke the law. It's the police and our legal system that's at fault. Come on guys... Maybe we should teach our kids to cheat on tests at school. It'd just be the teachers fault for letting them get away with it.
    That's not really the point I was making. Let's use your example instead, though.

    Say the government decides to scrap the police and riots start on the streets. Is the rioting the fault of the individuals or the fault of the state.

    Fact is that MLB ignored the doping issue. Even someone who never goes to a baseball match knows that some athletes will use whatever they can to gain an advantage. The ineptitude of the MLB authorities has harmed the game a lot more than what Barry Bonds might or might not have done.

  18. #18
    Willie Bee
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    Your overflowing sarcasm is noted, maritime. But I don't think that either taco or myself were saying that the individual doesn't bear ANY responsibility. Using your example, it's not the fault of the police if some moron drives up and down the street at 100 MPH; it is, however, the responsibility of the police to try and remove that driver from the highway.

  19. #19
    maritime
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    Quote Originally Posted by Willie Bee
    Your overflowing sarcasm is noted, maritime. But I don't think that either taco or myself were saying that the individual doesn't bear ANY responsibility. Using your example, it's not the fault of the police if some moron drives up and down the street at 100 MPH; it is, however, the responsibility of the police to try and remove that driver from the highway.

    Agreed.
    MLB policy has been a joke.
    Just want to make sure the individual bears their share of the blame.

  20. #20
    Willie Bee
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    This would be an absolute shame...

    ...if Ol' Flaxseed was somehow put on the team now

    ESPN.com
    PHOENIX -- Barry Bonds is thinking about joining the United States team in the World Baseball Classic, assuming it advances to the second round of play.

    But U.S. manager Buck Martinez says it's news to him. Martinez said he has no plans to alter his 30-man roster to make room for Bonds. WBC rules allow teams to substitute a player for the next round if there is an injury.

    "We have absolutely no injuries," Martinez said.

    ESPN analyst Rick Sutcliffe said Thursday night that he'd spoken with Bonds, who had expressed interest in the WBC. Martinez was interviewed during the game and said it would only happen if his team suffered an injury.

  21. #21
    presley177
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    I'd be a true shame if they let Bonds on the team now that they have advanced... although...actually..let him on..and let him get the olympic style testing done on him and see if anything shows.

  22. #22
    tacomax
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    OK, I'm starting to sound like a Bonds apologist here, but this guy just can't do right for doing wrong. He pulled out of the USA team - just like a number of players dropped out of their respective teams - and he gets slated for it. Now he gets slated when he says he might enter the team after all. Honestly, I just don't get it. If you've got a beef with him then fair enough, but why have a pop for the sake of having a pop?

  23. #23
    presley177
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacomax
    OK, I'm starting to sound like a Bonds apologist here, but this guy just can't do right for doing wrong. He pulled out of the USA team - just like a number of players dropped out of their respective teams - and he gets slated for it. Now he gets slated when he says he might enter the team after all. Honestly, I just don't get it. If you've got a beef with him then fair enough, but why have a pop for the sake of having a pop?
    Personally...I think he opted out of the world baseball classic upon hearing of the olympic style testing. ...so..I think him saying he's interested now is just hogwash. Really if possible I wish Bonds would drop out of the spotlight and out of baseball for good.

  24. #24
    Willie Bee
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    I would have the same feeling about this if it were any other player. All of the in-&-out's several of these guys pulled was tiresome and boring to me. If Billy Wagner all the sudden 're-changed' his mind, I'd think it a shame and wrong to sub someone off the roster to put him in.

    And, yes, on top of that it would be a bigger shame to allow Barry on the team in light of everything that has happened recently. I don't hold steroids, etc., against him anymore than I do the other players. But I think to allow him back on the team --- If any of this story was even true in the first place --- would both send the wrong message and just give fans something to boo about at these games instead of cheer for.

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