[mofome]

that comment made me laugh out loud, Thank you!

why?

[thegreatdiatchi]

I don't even think it's close between Webb and Wang. I think Webb is one of three best pitchers in baseball. Wang is not even in top 10.

I think Webb is the 2nd best pitcher in baseball right now so it's hard to compare him to anyone besides Peavy & Santana imo. I think I rated Wang as #4 or 5 in a poll we had earlier relating to him but the more I think about it he's really a top 15 guy. Still, there's nothing at all wrong with that and thankfully for the Yanks he is one guy who can usually be relied on to pull it out.

With that being said, Boston games are almost the equivalent of playoff games for the Yanks and this performance scares me for what could be in store.

[austintx05]

lets see how peavy does pitching in yankee stadium

[ryanXL977]

obviously its my opinion
let me know the last time peavy or webb had a 7 run support game at home and couldnt get out of the 5th
unit
17 wins
5 era

[mofome]

lets see how peavy does pitching in yankee stadium

peavy has a nice home park, but the biggest advantage is playing lineups that aren't all that good in parks like sf and lad. i believe that division had 4 of the lowest 20 scoring teams in the majors last year? something like that.

[ryanXL977]

wangs team scors 6 runs a game
unit had a 5 era with 17 wins

wang isnt top 10, he isnt close
nobody in their right mind argues that

[austintx05]

mofo proved my point

not only does peavy pitch in a pitcher's park, but he also plays in a division that scored the fewest runs.

ryan as soon as someone can tell me who has more wins than wang the last 2 seasons then you will win the argument.

[ryanXL977]

peavy is so much better than wang it isnt funny
ask players who they dont want to face
they dont name wang

they name
webb
johan
peavy

[austintx05]

peavy is so much better than wang it isnt funny
ask players who they dont want to face
they dont name wang

they name
webb
johan
peavy

who said that? Did you ask every player or is that YOUR opinion?

[ryanXL977]

unit
17 wins
5 era

[mofome]

wins are not a statistic a pitcher actually controls. teams win, not pitchers. a pitcher is in control of his era, whip, ks, walks, ha, opsa. those are the only numbers that need be referenced.

[ryanXL977]

exactly
thnk you
explain that to austin, he knows more about baseball than anyone in here

[austintx05]

you right. The fact that a pitcher would hold the opposition to fewer runs than his team scored shows that a pitcher has no control on wins.

ryan, I am still waiting for a response to my question.

[ryanXL977]

pitchers dotn control how many runs their team scores dude
do you watch wang? he is on espn every week
he is a good solid number 2-3

[mofome]

you right. The fact that a pitcher would hold the opposition to fewer runs than his team scored shows that a pitcher has no control on wins.

ryan, I am still waiting for a response to my question.

The pitcher tries to hold the opposition to zero runs, not simply less than his team scores. a pitchers goal is not to allow 6 if his team has 7. If you like a pitcher who gets a lot of run support, you like that teams run support, not their pitching.

[ryanXL977]

don sutton, top 20 pitcher all time right austin?

[LT Profits]

ryan as soon as someone can tell me who has more wins than wang the last 2 seasons then you will win the argument.

You already lost the argument by continuing to insist that Wins is a meaningful stat.

[austintx05]

See this argument is getting off topic.

Cause I never said Wang is the BEST. Which is what ryan thinks I am saying.

I am saying Wang is a top 5 pitcher in my book. Now I could see him slide into someone's top 10. But this top 15-20 crap is bullshit.

[LT Profits]

No he is not top 10. Top 20 at BEST.

[ryanXL977]

but he is not top 5. and he is not top 10. his stuff isnt nasty, he cant k guys, he gets wins, he is good, i would take him. but so did unit at 5 era so what

sps dont control wins

[austintx05]

and this thread is proving precisely why the masses at SBR do not know what they are talking about, YET THEY THINK THEY DO.

[ryanXL977]

or that you dont
everyone here has seen wang pitch 50 times
including twice vs cleve last october
he is nothing special dude. he is a good solid 2-3
he has one plus pitch
one

[austintx05]

or that you dont
everyone here has seen wang pitch 50 times
including twice vs cleve last october
he is nothing special dude. he is a good solid 2-3
he has one plus pitch
one

actually I do cause I keep proving you wrong.

I say Wang is top 5 but will stretch to top 10.

Name me 10 pitchers better than Wang. Active.

[ryanXL977]

webb
peavy
johan
beckett
hammels
sheets
smoltz
bedard
haren
sabathia
cain
hudson
kazmir
halladay
king felix

[mofome]

webb
peavy
johan
beckett
hammels
sheets
smoltz
bedard
haren
sabathia
cain
hudson
kazmir
halladay
king felix

lincecum

[austintx05]

webb
peavy
johan
beckett
hammels
sheets
smoltz
bedard
haren
sabathia
cain
hudson
kazmir
halladay
king felix

cain - nope
cc - can we not say last year was a fluke. Nice 0-3 start he has this season.
Haren is solid, but Wang is easily better.
Hudson/Smoltz - solid but again I do not know if we can say they are better TODAY than Wang.
Felix/Hammels - another case where we need to see more. Consistency is key to this list.

[ryanXL977]

lincecum i would take over wang, not sure if everyone agrees yet

[ryanXL977]

what consistency has wang shown that haren and felix have not? the factyou say hudson and smoltz arent better than wang speaks volumes it hink


and 3 starts make a season? i guess wang last night was the norm then

[diogee]

I would take Smoltz or Hudson over Wang...but this is an opinionated argument. Nobody is going to agree. Would be the same thing when arguing the top 3 QB's in the NFL. Everyone would have Manning and Brady but #3 would be the argument.

[austintx05]

what consistency has wang shown that haren and felix have not? the factyou say hudson and smoltz arent better than wang speaks volumes it hink


and 3 starts make a season? i guess wang last night was the norm then

umm the fact that he has more wins than ANY PITCHER IN BASEBALL the last 2 years.

[austintx05]

I would take Smoltz or Hudson over Wang...but this is an opinionated argument. Nobody is going to agree. Would be the same thing when arguing the top 3 QB's in the NFL. Everyone would have Manning and Brady but #3 would be the argument.

AGAIN, I am not picking Wang over Hudson. I am simply saying that Wang is a top 10 pitcher. (top5 in my book, but for the sake of argument I will extend it ti top 10)

[ryanXL977]

nobody cares about wins, the sp doesnt control them
they dont show a true reflection of the sp
its a lie of a stat
a lie i say

[austintx05]

nobody cares about wins, the sp doesnt control them
they dont show a true reflection of the sp
its a lie of a stat
a lie i say

yeah your right. NOBODY CARES ABOUT WINS. I guess they base Championships on TEAM COLOR.

[diogee]

I know...just saying that everyone could argue all season on an argument like this since we all have different opinions on what numbers are the most important.

[ryanXL977]

one fo the best years i have ever seen a pitcher have was unit 04
yet he had like 13 wins bc his teamsucked

wins dont show the truth for sps
for a team yes, for a sp no