1. #1
    italianbandit
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    Tigers, 3rd best team of all time

    DETROIT TIGERS


    WAR: 26.3
    WAR/162 Pace: 66.6
    Rank all time: 3rd-best
    Season Team WAR/162
    1927 Yankees 71.4
    1939 Yankees 67.4
    2013 Tigers 66.6
    1905 Giants 65.8
    1931 Yankees 64.7
    1942 Yankees 64.0
    1998 Braves 63.6
    1969 Orioles 62.9
    2001 Mariners 62.7
    1902 Pirates 62.3
    The Tigers are on pace to win a perfectly reasonable 91 games. That should be enough to get them into the playoffs as Central division champions. But by WAR, they’re on pace to be one of the very greatest teams in baseball history, right up there with the best of the Yankees and eclipsing the 116-win 2001 Mariners with ease. When you watch these Tigers, you might not get the vibe that you’re watching all-time greatness. But by the numbers, that’s what they feature, eschewing the stars-and-scrubs approach in favor of stars-and-more-stars. The position players are carried by the obvious slugger, but the rotation has been unbelievable, in the present context and in the all-time context.


    Best players


    Miguel Cabrera (+4.0 WAR)
    Anibal Sanchez (+3.4)
    Justin Verlander (+3.0)
    Max Scherzer (+3.0)
    Doug Fister (+2.7)
    Worst players


    Victor Martinez (-1.1 WAR)
    Alex Avila (-0.3)
    Jose Valverde (-0.3)
    Ramon Santiago (-0.3)
    Brayan Villarreal (-0.2)
    Why they’ll be an all-time great
    The rotation is obscene. Dave wrote about this at the end of May. With Rick Porcello suddenly striking batters out, all five of the starters would be top starters on other teams, and Drew Smyly isn’t bad as insurance. Cabrera, in his prime, is one of the best hitters ever, and Prince Fielder is obviously dangerous, and look at those performances from Avila and Martinez. Avila stands to improve, and so does Martinez, and if they don’t, the Tigers could make roster upgrades as they think about the playoffs. Nick Castellanos appears to have figured out Triple-A, clearing the way for him to figure out the majors, and that’s good young support.


    Why they won’t be an all-time great
    Sanchez has now missed a start with shoulder problems, and five-man rotations usually don’t hold up over full seasons. More baseballs should start flying over fences with the Tigers in the field, and there’s no quicker way for an ERA to rise. Jhonny Peralta probably isn’t an actual MVP candidate, and we have to think about regression to the mean. The Tigers have been extremely good, and that calls for probable regression. It’s hard to be this good for six months.

    by Jeff Sullivan

  2. #2
    No coincidences
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    They have one of the worst bullpens in baseball. Elite offense, elite rotation, awful relievers.

  3. #3
    Jago2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by italianbandit View Post
    DETROIT TIGERS


    WAR: 26.3
    WAR/162 Pace: 66.6
    Rank all time: 3rd-best
    Season Team WAR/162
    1927 Yankees 71.4
    1939 Yankees 67.4
    2013 Tigers 66.6
    1905 Giants 65.8
    1931 Yankees 64.7
    1942 Yankees 64.0
    1998 Braves 63.6
    1969 Orioles 62.9
    2001 Mariners 62.7
    1902 Pirates 62.3
    The Tigers are on pace to win a perfectly reasonable 91 games. That should be enough to get them into the playoffs as Central division champions. But by WAR, they’re on pace to be one of the very greatest teams in baseball history, right up there with the best of the Yankees and eclipsing the 116-win 2001 Mariners with ease. When you watch these Tigers, you might not get the vibe that you’re watching all-time greatness. But by the numbers, that’s what they feature, eschewing the stars-and-scrubs approach in favor of stars-and-more-stars. The position players are carried by the obvious slugger, but the rotation has been unbelievable, in the present context and in the all-time context.


    Best players


    Miguel Cabrera (+4.0 WAR)
    Anibal Sanchez (+3.4)
    Justin Verlander (+3.0)
    Max Scherzer (+3.0)
    Doug Fister (+2.7)
    Worst players


    Victor Martinez (-1.1 WAR)
    Alex Avila (-0.3)
    Jose Valverde (-0.3)
    Ramon Santiago (-0.3)
    Brayan Villarreal (-0.2)
    Why they’ll be an all-time great
    The rotation is obscene. Dave wrote about this at the end of May. With Rick Porcello suddenly striking batters out, all five of the starters would be top starters on other teams, and Drew Smyly isn’t bad as insurance. Cabrera, in his prime, is one of the best hitters ever, and Prince Fielder is obviously dangerous, and look at those performances from Avila and Martinez. Avila stands to improve, and so does Martinez, and if they don’t, the Tigers could make roster upgrades as they think about the playoffs. Nick Castellanos appears to have figured out Triple-A, clearing the way for him to figure out the majors, and that’s good young support.


    Why they won’t be an all-time great
    Sanchez has now missed a start with shoulder problems, and five-man rotations usually don’t hold up over full seasons. More baseballs should start flying over fences with the Tigers in the field, and there’s no quicker way for an ERA to rise. Jhonny Peralta probably isn’t an actual MVP candidate, and we have to think about regression to the mean. The Tigers have been extremely good, and that calls for probable regression. It’s hard to be this good for six months.

    by Jeff Sullivan
    Great share

  4. #4
    agharah1
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    Quote Originally Posted by No coincidences View Post
    They have one of the worst bullpens in baseball. Elite offense, elite rotation, awful relievers.
    Don't forget the excellent fielding from their 4 DHs masquerading as infielders!

  5. #5
    drfunkmaster
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    they are garbage in my opinion

  6. #6
    2daBank
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    I'm all for metrics but this just more proof ppl make way to much out of them. Det isn't the best team today let alone ever. Same team got their shit pushed in by sf in ws and won't win it this yr either.

  7. #7
    whtsox13
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    Despite individual efforts there is a synergy, a chemistry, a 'teamness', that is missing among them on the field.

  8. #8
    No coincidences
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2daBank View Post
    I'm all for metrics but this just more proof ppl make way to much out of them. Det isn't the best team today let alone ever. Same team got their shit pushed in by sf in ws and won't win it this yr either.
    Agree. Playoffs = tight games and best bullpens. Tigers won't be able to handle that unless they make some significant trades between now and the postseason.

  9. #9
    drfunkmaster
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    this is why i hate the tigers

    $1.00 $286.41 $0.00 Loss 8 Team Parlay
    Pending 6/15/13 10:10pm MLB Baseball 964 San Diego Padres -106* vs Arizona Diamondbacks (W Miley - L must Start J Marquis - R must Start)
    Loss 6/15/13 7:15pm MLB Baseball 971 Detroit Tigers -155* vs Minnesota Twins (A Sanchez - R must Start S Deduno - R must Start)
    Win 6/15/13 7:15pm MLB Baseball 971 Detroit Tigers/Minnesota Twins Over 8 -140* (A Sanchez - R must Start S Deduno - R must Start)
    Win 6/15/13 7:15pm MLB Baseball 974 Houston Astros +120* vs Chicago White Sox (J Danks - L must Start L Harrell - R must Start)
    Win 6/15/13 7:15pm MLB Baseball 976 Los Angeles Angels -115* vs New York Yankees (D Phelps - R must Start T Hanson - R must Start)
    Win 6/15/13 7:15pm MLB Baseball 977 Seattle Mariners +101* vs Oakland Athletics (F Hernandez - R must Start A Griffin - R must Start)
    Win 6/15/13 7:15pm MLB Baseball 979 Washington Nationals/Cleveland Indians Over 7 -140* (J Zimmermann - R must Start S Kazmir - L must Start)
    Win 6/15/13 8:05pm NHL Hockey 53 BOS/CHI goes to overtime +270* vs BOS/CHI no overtime

  10. #10
    agharah1
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    Quote Originally Posted by No coincidences View Post
    Agree. Playoffs = tight games and best bullpens. Tigers won't be able to handle that unless they make some significant trades between now and the postseason.
    Absolutely. Bullpen depth and timely hitting. The Tigers two biggest weaknesses.

  11. #11
    2daBank
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    Quote Originally Posted by No coincidences View Post
    Agree. Playoffs = tight games and best bullpens. Tigers won't be able to handle that unless they make some significant trades between now and the postseason.
    Their pen obviously a issue but honestly that lineup isn't terrifying to me, from what I've seen they don't situationally hit all that well: I mean sure it potent but do the do anything besides mash? I'm not going off any stats so maybe I'm wrong bout that but every time I watch them they either crushing hrs or bust.

  12. #12
    No coincidences
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2daBank View Post
    Their pen obviously a issue but honestly that lineup isn't terrifying to me, from what I've seen they don't situationally hit all that well: I mean sure it potent but do the do anything besides mash? I'm not going off any stats so maybe I'm wrong bout that but every time I watch them they either crushing hrs or bust.
    Nope. No speed, no small ball. With that being said, Miggy and Prince can make up for a lot of deficiencies -- just not enough to win a title.

  13. #13
    R.P. McMurphy
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    Numbers are nice to use as a tool at times but can also be misleading. They do not equate heart, leadership or chemistry which is what a true champion must possess. Not saying the Tigers have none but seriously they were SWEPT just last year on the biggest stage. A recent example of heart, chemistry, leadership would be the Cards a couple years back or BoSox when they came back from 3-1 to beat NY. Those teams were written off either during the post-season or in the Cards case before it. This is one reason sports is such a beautiful thing and why we enjoy it is watching magic happen at times despite #'s or nametags!

  14. #14
    Jago2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by R.P. McMurphy View Post
    Numbers are nice to use as a tool at times but can also be misleading. They do not equate heart, leadership or chemistry which is what a true champion must possess. Not saying the Tigers have none but seriously they were SWEPT just last year on the biggest stage. A recent example of heart, chemistry, leadership would be the Cards a couple years back or BoSox when they came back from 3-1 to beat NY. Those teams were written off either during the post-season or in the Cards case before it. This is one reason sports is such a beautiful thing and why we enjoy it is watching magic happen at times despite #'s or nametags!
    Well said man,

    I like to incorporate numbers, they are necessary more than ever in sports like the MLB or NBA. The MLB is such a grind for teams, it takes statistics, %'s, things like WAR, or like Voulgaris' NBA rating system, an approach that can highlight weaknesses in lines to have success long term.

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