[bigboydan]

Ripken and Gwynn should be first ballot HOF'ers, but what about McGwire?

I don't feel they should let him in there ever. This guy was a roids user his whole career, and his numbers are all tainted. This isn't like Taco's boy Barry "roids" Bonds at all, where he only took them for a few years.

Whats your take on McGwire ever making the HOF?

[Willie Bee]

Really has nothing to do with the steroids or supplements. I just don't think McGwire was in the upper 10% of first basemen among his contemporaries. I can think of at least four 1B while McGwire was active that I would take in front of him: Murray, Bagwell, Palmeiro and Thomas.

But I believe his HR totals will eventually get McGwire into Cooperstown. Palmeiro will not. Bagwell is borderline, Thomas is probably in and Murray's already there.

[bigboydan]

I respectfully disagree Willie.

You'd take Palmeiro even though he was caught using roids over Mcgwire who never got techically caught.

[Willie Bee]

Dan, I'd vote for Palmeiro because I think he was a better all-around ballplayer than McGwire, with or without steroids or supplements. Just my opinion.

And the real issue, again, in my opinion, isn't who did and who didn't get 'technically caught.' The real issue down the road is which members of the BBWAA will allow simple suspicions to drive their voting. Me, I think the vast majority of the players, 60% or more, at least tried some sort of supplement. Baseball as a whole - - The owners, the players, the media and the fans - - allowed it to happen. It's a shame for some of the players who might be borderline HOFers who didn't use them at all, but that's the way a good 10+ years of the game was played.

[nosuzieno]

The AP contacted, via e-mails and telephone, about 150 of the approximately 575 present or former members of the Baseball Writers' Association of America who are eligible to cast ballots. Of that number, 125 responded, including 25 AP sports writers. Most of the voters' names were obtained in the Major League Baseball media directory.

And the breakdown was:

_ 74 will not vote for McGwire.

_ 23 will vote for him.

_ 16 are undecided.

_ 5 refused to say.

_ 5 aren't allowed to vote by their employers.

_ 2 will abstain from voting.

That means if all the undecideds and those refusing to say voted for McGwire, and everyone else voted, McGwire would need 84 percent of the rest to get into the Hall.

Chaz Scoggins of The Sun in Lowell, Mass., was among McGwire's supporters.

"He wasn't breaking any baseball rules during his career," he said. "As for using performance-enhancing substances, the fact that so many pitchers have been detected using them kind of evens the playing field."

Baseball commissioner Bud Selig wouldn't address McGwire specifically, saying it was unclear how this generation of home run hitters will be judged.

"Time will tell. We'll have to work our way through all of it," he said Monday night. "All we can do realistically is take care of the present and the future."

McGwire played in the majors from 1986-2001, the first 12 seasons with the Oakland Athletics and the rest with the Cardinals.

When he hit 70 homers in 1998 _ breaking the mark of 61 Roger Maris had set 37 years earlier _ McGwire became a national hero for his Paul Bunyan-like physique and feats. A year later, part of an interstate highway in St. Louis was named after McGwire. Large signs at both the current and previous Busch Stadium called attention to "Big Mac Land," ads for McDonald's referencing McGwire.

But his reputation plummeted following allegations by former teammate Jose Canseco, who claimed in a 2005 book and subsequent interviews that the Bash Brothers used steroids together while playing on the A's.

And then came McGwire's testimony to a congressional committee on March 17, 2005, when he repeatedly avoided questions, saying time after time: "I'm not here to talk about the past."

That appearance and those allegations are still fresh in the minds of many voters.

"He won't get my vote this year, next year or any year," said the Chicago Tribune's Paul Sullivan.

When the AP conducted a survey of Hall voters during the week following McGwire's testimony, 56 percent of the 117 voters who gave an opinion said they would support his induction.

Ballots will be mailed to voters this week and must be postmarked by Dec. 31. Results will be announced Jan. 9, and inductions will take place July 29.

Players who have appeared in 10 seasons and have been retired for five years are eligible for consideration by a six-member BBWAA screening committee, and a player goes on the ballot if he is supported by at least two screening committee members.

A player remains on the ballot for up to 15 elections as long as he gets 5 percent of the votes every year. McGwire appears to be in no danger of missing that mark.

Gwynn and Ripken are considered virtual locks for election. Canseco also is on the ballot for the first time but is not expected to come close to election.

Gwynn isn't sure whether McGwire used steroids.

"I think he's a Hall of Famer, myself," Gwynn said. "He hit 500 or so homers, almost 600. I think we have no proof whether he did or not. Canseco said he did. He didn't perform well at the congressional hearing, and I think that will stick with people more than anything else. He's on the ballot, too. I have no control over that."

Hall voters will face additional questions when other players accused of steroid use go on the ballot. Sammy Sosa and Rafael Palmeiro become eligible for 2011 and Barry Bonds, who plans to play next season, sometime after that.

Others view it as a matter of baseball rules. Baseball did not have an agreement with its players' union to ban steroids until after the 2002 season.

Some writers say they might vote for McGwire in future years but won't consider him on this ballot, not wanting to give him the extra honor of getting elected on the first ballot.

"I don't plan to vote for him on the first ballot, but I do plan to vote for him," said former Chicago Tribune writer Jerome Holtzman, baseball's official historian.

Some players have seen their support increase over time. Jimmie Foxx got 10 votes when he first appeared on the ballot in 1947, then was elected with 179 votes four years later.

Dave Kingman (442) has the most home runs for a player who has been on the Hall of Fame ballot and was not elected _ he received three votes in his only appearance, in 1992, and was dropped.

Among the 33 players above Kingman on the career home run list, 20 are in the Hall, seven are active (Bonds, Ken Griffey Jr., Frank Thomas, Jim Thome, Manny Ramirez, Alex Rodriguez and Gary Sheffield), four haven't been retired the necessary five years (Sosa, Palmeiro, Fred McGriff and Jeff Bagwell) and two are on the ballot for the first time (McGwire and Canseco).

Eleven of the 15 Hall of Famers with 500 homers were elected on the first ballot. The exceptions were Mel Ott (third ballot), Harmon Killebrew (fourth ballot), Foxx (fifth ballot) and Eddie Mathews (sixth ballot).

[Willie Bee]

_ 5 aren't allowed to vote by their employers.

_ 2 will abstain from voting.

These two lines bother me most about the BBWAA and the voting they conduct. If they aren't allowed by their employer to vote, then there names should be totally stricken from the list and the count.

And if they don't think anyone on the ballot belongs in the Hall, they should still turn in a ballot stating such. Any ballots not turned in should NOT count towards the final tally needed for any player to gain admittance to Cooperstown.

All ballots should also be made public.

[Illusion]

I believe his HR totals will eventually get McGwire into Cooperstown.

I also think that will ultimately get him in, but not for a few more ballots.

[tacomax]

These two lines bother me most about the BBWAA and the voting they conduct. If they aren't allowed by their employer to vote, then there names should be totally stricken from the list and the count.

I thought that was odd. If you can't vote or won't vote then you sure as shit shouldn't be one of the 575 eligible to vote.