[yisman]

Because you can get many hits by just having many at bats and have a crappy average.

.BA has always been one of the most important stats in baseball.

you didn't read the rest of my post, obviously.

RBI are primarily a result of opportunity.

Is BA a better measure than hits? Sure, but percentage of runners driven in is better than pure RBI. You can accumulate a lot of RBI simply by having a lot of runners on base in front of you. Have fun driving in tons of runs when you're leading off.

And OBP is more important than either one. So Cabrera was not the best in the AL at driving runners in, and he was not the best in getting on base. He was also a terrible baserunner and a poor fielder.

I mentioned hits because two of the categories are cumulative stats (homers and rbi), so it would follow that the third should be as well. Of course, to argue BA/HR/RBI are the three most important stats is completely nonsensical to begin with.

By the way, Trout also scored more runs than Cabrera, and I don't see how RBI is more important than runs scored.

[k13]

No one won the triple crown in like 45 years and SBR Trout homers want to give him the MVP for an average season. lol

[antifoil]

no one in the new age of front offices thinks batting average is the most important category. that really shows how out of touch you really are with what the term value means.

oakland found a new inefficiency this year. they just went for power and defense while punting on batting average and K rate.

oh and lol rbi

[yisman]

No one won the triple crown in like 45 years and SBR Trout homers want to give him the MVP for an average season. lol

I'm not a trout homer. I'm simply looking at it logically.

It's simply illogical to give the MVP to Cabrera.

Trout was the first player to be worth 10 wins above replacement since Barry Bonds.

Trout was the first player ever to win Baseball America's ROY and player of the year in the same year.

Trout second player ever to have 30 homers and 50 steals in a season.

Trout first player ever to hit 30 homers, steal 45 bases, and score 125 runs in a season.

The amusing part is that Miggy had better seasons in 2010 and 2011 than he had this season. But it didn't happen to fall out that he led the league in the three cherry-picked categories at once, so he didn't get much press.

[Mantle7]

No one won the triple crown in like 45 years and SBR Trout homers want to give him the MVP for an average season. lol

An average season? What the fukk are you smoking?

[k13]

An average season? What the fukk are you smoking?

Average season for an MVP.

[Chi_archie]

SBR Trout homers want to give him the MVP for an average season. lol

kinda lost respect in this argument with that statement

I'm really on the fence about hey give the guy the MVP for old times/old school sakes.

but even a casual fan that glances at regular stats, would never call Trout's season "average"

make a list of guys with 30+ hrs 40+ steals and 125+ runs in a season let alone a 140ish game season

[lakerboy]

So many guys here love Trout. I get he was very solid and that his numbers were awesome for a rookie ( who pitchers had never faced before) but winning the triple crown is a special achievement . I cant see how you can put that down. For years so many people were saying it would never happen again .

[antifoil]

So many guys here love Trout. I get he was very solid and that his numbers were awesome for a rookie ( who pitchers had never faced before) but winning the triple crown is a special achievement . I cant see how you can put that down. For years so many people were saying it would never happen again .

lol rbi

[k13]

560 ab's 30 hr's .326 avg. .963 ops

Is that even top 1000 all time?

[k13]

a-rod had 123 r, 213 h, 42 hr's, 124 rbi's, 46 sb's

that shits on Trout and he finished 9th in MVP voting.

Oh yeah, Angles stacked and finish 3rd out of 4 teams in the division.

[yisman]

Angels had a better regular season than the Tigers. They played in a tougher division and had a better record.

[yisman]

a-rod had 123 r, 213 h, 42 hr's, 124 rbi's, 46 sb's

that shits on Trout and he finished 9th in MVP voting.

Multiple guys have had easily better seasons than Cabrera and failed to win MVP.

Ted Williams won the triple crown twice and didn't win the MVP either time.

Trout had by far the best Wins Above Replacement in baseball. He was the more valuable player. If you want to make it most valuable hitter, then it's debatable. If you take into account baserunning and defense, it's not.

[k13]

Does any book have odds on this?

[lakerboy]

Angels had a better regular season than the Tigers. They played in a tougher division and had a better record.

So what? The Tigers beat the rep of that div without home field. You play what you get. You can bet your bottom dollar that det would have beaten the angels as well in a best of 5. That argument is old. I used to use it as well but you gotta just accept the system the way it is.


The braves won 94 games and if they were in the AL they would have been playing in a best of 5 series not a 1 game bullshit system.

[yisman]

Two of Babe Ruth's many incredible seasons

.376/54/137
.356/60/164

They "shit all over" Cabrera, and he didn't win MVP either time.

In fact, Babe Ruth only won the MVP once. What that has to do with anything, I don't know, but it has as much to do as A-Roid's season over a decade ago.

[yisman]

I'm pretty sure Cabrera will win the MVP.

He doesn't deserve it, but awards often don't make much sense. Derek Jeter has won five Gold Gloves, and he never has been the best fielder at his position.

Andre Dawson won an MVP when he wasn't among the top 10 hitters in the league.

[yisman]

as far as odds, Cabrera was -150 to win MVP during the last week of the regular season, IIRC. At Bovada.

I doubt any book would offer it now. If they did, the odds would be higher.

[gryfyn1]

So what? The Tigers beat the rep of that div without home field. You play what you get. You can bet your bottom dollar that det would have beaten the angels as well in a best of 5. That argument is old. I used to use it as well but you gotta just accept the system the way it is.


The braves won 94 games and if they were in the AL they would have been playing in a best of 5 series not a 1 game bullshit system.

its relevant because people are using the teams performance to justify Cabrera's MVP candidacy. Which Is just total lunacy to take the perfmances of Max Scherzer, Doug Fister, Dan Haren and Ervin Santana as the key to who wins the MVP

[lakerboy]

Dawson played on a shit team but still led the league in homers/rbis and tbases. I think Gwynn should have won that year.

[antifoil]

its relevant because people are using the teams performance to justify Cabrera's MVP candidacy. Which Is just total lunacy to take the perfmances of Max Scherzer, Doug Fister, Dan Haren and Ervin Santana as the key to who wins the MVP

it's all those liberals that don't like personal responsibility. they all want stuff to be given out based on what other people do. trying to keep the best man down.

[Chi_archie]

Dawson played on a shit team but still led the league in homers/rbis and tbases. I think Gwynn should have won that year.

this would make for a fun argument!

[yisman]

the playoffs were actually a great example of how good the Tigers were and how Miguel Cabrera wasn't carrying them.

His only RBI in the division series came when he was hit by a pitch with the bases loaded on an 0-2 count (so you can throw "they were hitting him on purpose" out the window).

His first home run of the playoffs came in Game 4 against the Yankees.

The Tigers had outstanding starting pitching and Miguel Cabrera had plenty of runners on base when he batted, which is how he led the league in both RBI and GIDP.

[k13]

Two of Babe Ruth's many incredible seasons

.376/54/137
.356/60/164

They "shit all over" Cabrera, and he didn't win MVP either time.

In fact, Babe Ruth only won the MVP once. What that has to do with anything, I don't know, but it has as much to do as A-Roid's season over a decade ago.

It means Trouts season is even less special.

Baseball numbers are down. All relative.

Bonds seasons shits on both of them. I don't see what's special about Trouts season?

[antifoil]

no it makes trout season even more special because of his ability to generate value with his defense and speed. in a year where offense is down those two thing become more valuable.

[yisman]

Dawson batted .287 with a .328 OBP. His OPS+ was 130, which put him well outside the top 10 in the NL. His WAR was 3.7, again well outside the top 10 (by comparison, Trout this season had a WAR over 10).

The MVP often goes to a player who wasn't the best or most valuable player in his league.

[lakerboy]

the playoffs were actually a great example of how good the Tigers were and how Miguel Cabrera wasn't carrying them.

His only RBI in the division series came when he was hit by a pitch with the bases loaded on an 0-2 count (so you can throw "they were hitting him on purpose" out the window).

His first home run of the playoffs came in Game 4 against the Yankees.

The Tigers had outstanding starting pitching and Miguel Cabrera had plenty of runners on base when he batted, which is how he led the league in both RBI and GIDP.

The playoffs dont count in MVP voting and they are also a great example of how teams pitch around the best players. Cabrera rarely saw anything to hit.


The tigers were not good actually. They finished at 7-6 in the playoffs.

[yisman]

I don't see what's special about Trouts season?

I already posted that.

Trout was the first player to be worth 10 wins above replacement since Barry Bonds.

Trout was the first player ever to win Baseball America's ROY and player of the year in the same year.

Trout second player ever to have 30 homers and 50 steals in a season.

Trout first player ever to hit 30 homers, steal 45 bases, and score 125 runs in a season.

The amusing part is that Miggy had better seasons in 2010 and 2011 than he had this season. But it didn't happen to fall out that he led the league in the three cherry-picked categories at once, so he didn't get much press.

[DDT]

Screw that cocky bastard

[yisman]

The playoffs dont count in MVP voting

Yes, I already said that. I was responding to the logic of "Miguel Cabrera carried his team to the World Series."

I'm not counting the playoffs, but it needed to be said for the people arguing based on the playoffs.

Trout had a better regular season and the Angels were better than the Tigers in the regular season.

[lakerboy]

LOL at new shit like WAR. Dawson was good that year. He was one of the most feared players in the game that year. Dawson excelled at stats that were important ( RBI/HR etc for MVP). If Cabrera wins it looks like those still mean a bit.

[antifoil]

yeah but trout didn't win gold glove so he can't be a good defender.

[antifoil]

LOL at new shit like WAR. Dawson was good that year. He was one of the most feared players in the game that year. Dawson excelled at stats that were important ( RBI/HR etc for MVP). If Cabrera wins it looks like those still mean a bit.

GM's don't vote for MVP so it still mean nothing. i would rather know which player GM's would rather have than baseball writers.

[yisman]

GM's don't vote for MVP so it still mean nothing. i would rather know which player GM's would rather have than baseball writers.

http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/blog/...mvp-debate-mlb

"... And all but a very small handful of front-office types -- as in, one -- have told me they would pick Trout."

http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/blog/...mike-trout-mlb

[lakerboy]

http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/blog/...mvp-debate-mlb

"... And all but a very small handful of front-office types -- as in, one -- have told me they would pick Trout."

http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/blog/...mike-trout-mlb

Not an age issue now would it be?