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Craig Kimbrel NL Cy Young? Yes or No?
Yes: Kimbrel is 28 for 29 in save opportunities, 28 saves leads the NL, has an insanely low 0.68 WH/IP ratio, a ridiculous 1.22 ERA, 63 strike outs in 37 innings (15.3 K's per 9) pitches in more games than any starter, and pitches only when the game is on the line.
No: Relief pitchers should not be considered for Cy Young's, it's an award for starters only. Dickey, or Stras, or Hamels, or Stras deserve the award.
My argument right now is, if the season ended today, Kimbrel gets my vote.
top 3-5 at this point. long way to go, doesn't take much for a relievers stats to not look so sharp..
Dont be afraid to throw Cueto's name in the mix. How he didnt make the All Star team pitching at GABP is beyond me!
^
And Dempster too, dig deeper than the won/loss record on Dempster.
Word is he gets dealt tonight after this start too.
At this point Kimbrell could get the nod....but like chiarchie said, the numbers take a turn quickly after a few bad appearances, which will happen.
Chapman hadn't given up an earned run in like 30 innings, then the same week, it was above 2.00, and he might be flawless since.
On Cueto though, he has the best ERA in National League, and 3rd most wins, pitching in the toughest park in the majors.
I still cant fathom the fact that he didnt get the nod, while guys like Chipper and Bryce did.
I'm a Braves fan & he is having a helluva year...that said...
Its always tough for an RP to overcome the voters who won't vote for a RP for the Cy...and there are voters who feel very strongly about that.
I think, if Craig continues to pitch well & no SP goes wild and wins 22+ games, he's got a chance.
If I had to guess right now, I'd guess top 3, but no Cy...
Kimbrel and Rodney have both been unbelievable so far and have similar numbers.
I don't think either garner the attention they deserve. Rodney resurrecting his career at 35 the way he has is pretty impressive.
Certainly, no Cy love for either but definitely note worthy seasons thus far.
Last edited by jagaf22; 07-20-12 at 08:47 AM.
If the season ended today Dickey
BTW they are shutting Stras down after 160 inning he will be out of it.
Like what happen to Zimmerman after 160 inning they shut him down he
came back with his best yr
^
Davey Johnson is considering a six man rotation.
Silly, Stras has good mechanics, no reason to baby him at all.
Yankees babied Joba, didn't work out well
the guy is automatic
only his 2nd year too
braves lead after 9 innings = win
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Knuckle ball cyoung 2012
this year. **** yeah. what's the stats on closers blowing saves this year? i'm willing to bet it's one of the highest in history.
Really?Originally Posted by Brock Landers
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^ Best extra inning team in the game......I guess!
Season ends today, Cy goes to R.A.
Last year Jose Valverde was perfect in save opps for the entire year, not even in the vote-
point is: relievers never will get it
Really simple answer, hell no.
The only way a closer can win it is if all of the below happen.
Closer is perfect. No blown saves.
Weak SP field (definitely not that this year, Cain/Dickey/Cueto)
Closer's team makes playoffs
Closers are important to how well your team does. But the value of an ace is still way more than the value of an elite closer.
AL
1977--Sparky Lyle
1981--Rollie Fingers
1984--Willie Hernandez
1992--Dennis Eckersley
NL
1974--Mike Marshall
1979--Bruce Sutter
1987--Steve Bedrosian
1989--Mark Davis
2003--Eric Gagne
Mike Marshall, 1974. The year of Marshall's 106 games and 200-plus relief innings. Also only two NL guys with 20 wins, Andy Messersmith and Phil Niekro. Kind of a wimpy year for starters.
- Sparky Lyle, 1977. Three AL pitchers with exactly 20 wins this year: Jim Palmer, Dennis Leonard and Dave Goltz. Palmer had already won three Cy Youngs in his career, and it was kind of a ho-hum year for him. Both Leonard and Goltz had ERAs in the threes, which wasn't so grand back then.
- Bruce Sutter, 1979. This is a really strange year. It's the only time that a reliever won the Cy Young but didn't lead all pitchers in MVP points. Joe Niekro was the phantom Cy Young on the strength
of a 21-11 record, and he finished a close second to Sutter in the real Cy Young vote. Brother Phil also won 21 games, but then again he also lost 20. They were the only NL pitchers with over 18 wins.
- Rollie Fingers, 1981. The strike meant that not one pitcher had even 15 wins, and four AL pitchers tied with 14. A perfect year for a closer to sneak in and win the award. In fact, Fingers was also the AL MVP, beating Rickey Henderson in one of the closest races on record and no doubt helped by the strike-deflated offensive numbers. (As for Fingers' own stats, he threw 78 innings with a 1.04 ERA and a league-best 28 saves. In a strike year, the closer with the eye-popping stats has an edge.)
- Willie Hernandez, 1984. Hernandez also won the MVP award this year, the second of only three actual closers to ever do that. He was brilliant for the juggernaut Tigers, and just as importantly, Mike Boddicker was the league's lone 20-game winner. The Cy Young runner-up, Dan Quisenberry, was also a reliever. Incidentally, Quiz finished third in the MVP vote.
- Steve Bedrosian, 1987. Rick Sutcliffe led the NL with a mere 18 wins. In a wide-open year, Bedrosian picked off the Cy Young.
- Mark Davis, 1989. Another weak year for starters. Mike Scott was the only 20-game winner in the NL, and he didn't even finish in the top 10 in ERA.
- Dennis Eckersley, 1992. The last closer to win the MVP award. And while Eck was brilliant, we once again have an unimpressive field of starting pitchers. Yes, Jack Morris and Kevin Brown won 21 games apiece and Jack McDowell notched 20, but Morris had a 4.04 ERA and Brown and McDowell were in the threes and didn't look like aces.
- Eric Gagne, 2003. Boy, they sure quit giving Cy Youngs to relievers, didn't they? This year, only Russ Ortiz reached 20 wins, and with a 3.81 ERA and an ugly 149-102 strikeout-to-walk ratio, he was nobody's Cy Young.
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Stevenash, read my last post regarding Gagne... He was perfect that year wasn't he? And there was a watered down SP field.
So Kimbrel can't win unless Dickey, Cain, and Cueto all get lit up in the 2nd half.
Yes...Gagne was perfect. Half these fukkin twinks are even too young to remember 2003. He converted 84 straight at one point.
Steve, I'll give you Eric Gagne(Gagne was perfect)
but closers were firemen back then. They put out a lot of fires.
Closers nowadays, get a lot of cheap saves. 2-3 run leads in the ninth and sometimes the bottom of the order.
I like to forget that 2003 ever happened. Damn you Alex S. Gonzalez, you Cuban choke artist!
Good eye L.T.
The closer role is one of the most overrated talk of the towns in baseball. Think about it, a guy comes into the game with the lead, often times more than a run, and he faces three batters with no one on base. Often, he does not even face the top of the order. Sure, Kimbrel is one of the best in getting 3 outs with a lead, but there's no way he deserves to win the NL Cy Young award.
lol no. how many blown saves this year?
Should have stuck with your last sentence only higherelement.
Chapman has 82 k's in 43 ip. 25 of his last 28 recorded outs have been k's. That's getting it done. With a whip at .710. He also has 15 saves and has not been closing all year.
Matt Cain
NL Cy Young winner. Matt Cain.
I'm sticking to my statement and yes, there's been a lot of blown saves. There's also a lot of mediocre closers who are way past their prime. Smart clubs deal closers and dumb clubs trade for them...heath bell and others are prime examples. The problem is a closer gets much more credit than he really deserves. Guarantee that many RP's could easily be the next best closer, if they were just given the opportunity. Again, it's a way overrated position!
So Rivera got more credit than he deserved? Im confused
2003--Eric Gagne
This guy has ruined any relievers chances of winning a Cy Young in the future.
Rivera is an anomaly...I knew after I posted that someone would bring him up. Think big picture. Think comparing closer with SP's. Think are there RPs who could perform the closers jobs just as good...think.
It is true that most closers are made closers because there are concerns they wouldn't be able to succeed as a starting pitcher.
-history of arm troubles
-only two reliable pitches
Usually the biggest reasons. If people think you can be an elite starter, they'll never make you a closer.
A closer and most RP's are responsible for one thing. Getting 3 outs. In my opinion, getting a hold is not much different than getting a save. Sure it's all situational, but tell me one thing. You think it's easier to pitch with or without a lead?
Who remembers John Hiller?
When I was a kid, and I mean tee-ball kid, I remember watching this guy go 2+ lights out innings to finish for the Tigers every time they played the Yanks.
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