1. #1
    PickWinnerAllDay
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    Red Sox/Cubs Theo Compensation?

    The Cubs just sent Chris Carpenter to the Red Sox to compensate for signing Theo...

    I'm a little confused on why they had to compensate the Red Sox at all... It is an unwritten rule in MLB that you are freely allowed to promote executives from another organization as long as it is a promotion and not a lateral move.

    Of course delusional Red Sox fans are angry they didn't get Matt Garza! lol

  2. #2
    Dutchie
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    he had one year left on his contract, but they let him go under the condition that the Cubs would compensate them.

    Theo was on his way out anyways, so the Red Sox were just trying to get something out of the deal.

    not sure what you mean by the Promotion vs Lateral Move

  3. #3
    PickWinnerAllDay
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchie View Post
    he had one year left on his contract, but they let him go under the condition that the Cubs would compensate them.

    Theo was on his way out anyways, so the Red Sox were just trying to get something out of the deal.

    not sure what you mean by the Promotion vs Lateral Move

    It is just an unwritten rule that clubs will not hamstring the new club when the new club is promoting an executive. The rule was basically established so that executives could move up the ladder. The Cubs hired Theo as the PBO, which is a promotion from GM, so it shouldn't have cost anything.

  4. #4
    doylfish
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    Quote Originally Posted by PickWinnerAllDay View Post
    It is just an unwritten rule that clubs will not hamstring the new club when the new club is promoting an executive. The rule was basically established so that executives could move up the ladder. The Cubs hired Theo as the PBO, which is a promotion from GM, so it shouldn't have cost anything.
    No.


    It wouldn't have cost the cubs anything NEXT year. Until Henry ok'd Theo getting the interview Theo was still signed with the Sox to be GM this season (2012) So the compensation comes into play for the Sox letting their GM go. Yes the courtesy in a promotional move is to let the guy interview at least, but he was still contractually obligated to the Sox for 2012, and that is where the compensation comes into play for Henry letting Theo out of his deal a year early to go to the Cubs.

    Compensation could have been anything, didn't have to be a player, could have been cash. You want a top exec, you gotta pay for it, just like clubs get draft picks for losing free agents that are considered top players.

    Sox arent 'hamstringing' anyone, certainly not the Cubs who have a top ten payroll, and arent even giving up a top ten prospect in their organization per Keith Law's rankings, pretty much organizational depth with a shot to make the bullpen.
    Last edited by doylfish; 02-21-12 at 02:22 PM.

  5. #5
    PickWinnerAllDay
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    Quote Originally Posted by doylfish View Post
    No.


    It wouldn't have cost the cubs anything NEXT year. Until Henry ok'd Theo getting the interview Theo was still signed with the Sox to be GM this season (2012) So the compensation comes into play for the Sox letting their GM go. Yes the courtesy in a promotional move is to let the guy interview at least, but he was still contractually obligated to the Sox for 2012, and that is where the compensation comes into play for Henry letting Theo out of his deal a year early to go to the Cubs
    No, the unwritten rule is not punishing a new team for wanting to promote someone.

    Example... if the janitor for the Twins wants to be hired by the Marlins for PBO, you allow it.
    Example... if the janitor for the Twins wants to be hired by the Marlins for janitor, you owe compensation for allowing that to happen.

    Of course there would be no compensation next year as Theo would not be under contract. The Red Sox should have offered Theo PBO if they wanted to keep him.

  6. #6
    Robber
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    Agree I don't think cubs should've had to give up anything

  7. #7
    YorkHunt
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    It doesnt really matter this guy carpenter sucks hes not even a top 10 pitching prospect in the cubs system

  8. #8
    PickWinnerAllDay
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    Quote Originally Posted by YorkHunt View Post
    It doesnt really matter this guy carpenter sucks hes not even a top 10 pitching prospect in the cubs system

    He has some pros and some cons...

    Pros: He can throw 100
    Cons: No control, 26, injury troubles

  9. #9
    doylfish
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    Quote Originally Posted by PickWinnerAllDay View Post
    No, the unwritten rule is not punishing a new team for wanting to promote someone.

    Example... if the janitor for the Twins wants to be hired by the Marlins for PBO, you allow it.
    Example... if the janitor for the Twins wants to be hired by the Marlins for janitor, you owe compensation for allowing that to happen.

    Of course there would be no compensation next year as Theo would not be under contract. The Red Sox should have offered Theo PBO if they wanted to keep him.
    Your analogy involving the janitor is entirely implausible. I don't care if this is cubs/sox we are talking about or a similar situation if the Yankees were to give up cashman to another team a year early out of his contract.

    Your 'janitor' situation involves someone who has almost no value to the organization, and is easily replaceable by going to the help wanted section. Let the marlins take him and promote him to PBO, they'll be a pretty shi*ty club.

    Theo holds a lot of value to any organization with a crappy GM and that wants to win, and therefore you don't get something for nothing. You can't just replace a guy easily like Theo who is widely regarded by his peers as one of the best at his position. If it was that easy the Cubs wouldn't have come calling in the first place and they'd have a good GM and won something recently.

    The Sox did the right thing by letting Theo out of his contract to have this opportunity in the first place. That was the 'unwritten' rule part by even granting that interview which they didn't have to do.

    Sox don't need a PBO, they have Lucchino, not that I'm thrilled with that, but it is what it is. Hence why they let Theo interview, but again, you don't give away something of high value for nothing. Unless you're really stupid.*

    Plenty of clubs would have been all over Theo at the end of this contract if he was allowed to be on the free market so the Cubs 'paid' something for exclusivity to lock him down before that happened. Again, didn't have to be a player, and from all regards he isn't that great of one anyway. Could've paid cash compensation and for a team that is regularly well within top ten payroll in the league that wouldn't have hamstrung anyone in the slightest.

  10. #10
    doylfish
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    From espnboston

    "Reliever Chris Carpenter took the loss in his spring debut. Carpenter worked a strong seventh in which he hit 95 mph with his fastball, but he walked in the go-ahead run in the eighth and surrendered four earned runs without recording an out. In total, he walked three batters, and threw 20 balls and 15 strikes."


    Yeah that's a great prospect we got right there....glad Boston let a top GM like Theo go for diddly squat. Cubs would've taken Theo with his horrible John Lackey contract too or given Sox any prospect or player we demanded Ricketts wanted Theo so bad..idiots

  11. #11
    Chi_archie
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    would the Red Sox have kept Theo though?

  12. #12
    doylfish
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chi_archie View Post
    would the Red Sox have kept Theo though?
    He was under contract for this season, but honestly I think they wanted to clean house as much as possible after last season, so no. I also think ownership was a bit fed up with some of his large contracts not panning out and ready for a fresh start. That being said, they did the right thing to let him take a promotion elsewhere and get outta Boston a year early, but still, should've at least made him take that gawdawful lackey contract. No mulligans just cause youre changing posts, and Ricketts was drooling to get his mitts on having that kind of name recognition around for the fan base

  13. #13
    bobby heenan
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    Quote Originally Posted by doylfish View Post
    He was under contract for this season, but honestly I think they wanted to clean house as much as possible after last season, so no. I also think ownership was a bit fed up with some of his large contracts not panning out and ready for a fresh start. That being said, they did the right thing to let him take a promotion elsewhere and get outta Boston a year early, but still, should've at least made him take that gawdawful lackey contract. No mulligans just cause youre changing posts, and Ricketts was drooling to get his mitts on having that kind of name recognition around for the fan base
    things got a little out of hand...at least in new england....with the speculation that it could be garza, castro, brett jackson, vitters, or cashner.....those names got floated around and it was a bit ridiculous

    the sox were definitley ready to move on from theo...but they didnt play right...they knew teams were clamoring for his services...especially the cubs...they didnt play hardball(maybe it was out of respect for him)...but they could have stuck him with a backroom office and called him a consultant(without him having to actually show up)....instead they let him walk and decided they could settle on compensation later....they had an asset that was coveted....and they let it walk for essentially nothing.....if they ever had a shot at any of those guys like garza, or any of the cubs top prospects, it went out the window when they let him walk first

  14. #14
    doylfish
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    ^^
    exactly...


    Honestly i would've been happy if the sox waived all chances at any top prospects if they only could've gotten rid of a bad contract like lackey's is. That thing will become more crippling every year he's with us. Just like NBA and MLB teams do all the time, they trade a player (or in this case GM) of high want and couple the deal with a bad contract the team doesn't want. That's how the sox wound up with lowell when they got beckett because Lowell was viewed as washed up
    and overpaid at that time

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