1. 12-22-11 06:51 PM #1
    warriorfan707
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    Beltran to the Cardinals

    http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseb...a4bcf6878.html

    Hes gonna end up there almost for certain. He can still mash.
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  2. 12-22-11 06:56 PM #2
    HoulihansTX
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    He is a bum...
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  3. 12-22-11 06:58 PM #3
    jjgold
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    He is better than he average MLB player

    Good pickup
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  4. 12-22-11 07:00 PM #4
    Chimneyfish
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    Quote Originally Posted by HoulihansTX View Post
    He is a bum...
    He got overshadowed in the media by Hunter Pence's big comeback in Philly, but he actually had the best season of his career last year.
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  5. 12-22-11 07:01 PM #5
    Brock Landers
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    his best years were 5 or more years ago
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  6. 12-22-11 07:04 PM #6
    Chimneyfish
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    He posted the highest OPS+ of career last year after being traded to the Giants (156).
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  7. 12-22-11 07:04 PM #7
    KingJD31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chimneyfish View Post
    He got overshadowed in the media by Hunter Pence's big comeback in Philly, but he actually had the best season of his career last year.
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  8. 12-22-11 07:05 PM #8
    KingJD31
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    you know he put up 40+ homers one year right
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  9. 12-22-11 07:06 PM #9
    Chimneyfish
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingJD31 View Post
    You're right- smilies are way more convincing than stats.
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  10. 12-22-11 07:06 PM #10
    HoulihansTX
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    I wonder what percentage of the season he will miss now that he has a new contract?

    50% is my guess
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  11. 12-22-11 07:08 PM #11
    KingJD31
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    .275 41 hr 116 rbi 38 doubles 127 runs in 2006 i say thats his best year
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  12. 12-22-11 07:15 PM #12
    Chimneyfish
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingJD31 View Post
    you know he put up 40+ homers one year right
    Trying to judge a player entirely on a single stat category isn't going to be very telling. Most people these days now realize that things like on base percentages are nearly twice as important as things like slugging percentages. The raw HR stat doesn't tell you whether a player is costing his team by wasting a lot of outs. Plus, it's not adjusted for ballpark factors. The OPS+ stat accounts for both of those things.
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  13. 12-22-11 07:17 PM #13
    KingJD31
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    look at all the numbers i gave you above your gonna tell me ops is more important than all of that?
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  14. 12-22-11 07:17 PM #14
    HoulihansTX
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    Chimney, you sound lik an intelligent guy, and astute fan of baseball. All the more puzzling as to how you do not know Beltran is a bum. Hmmmm
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  15. 12-22-11 07:22 PM #15
    Dirty Sanchez
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    The Beltran Experiment runs hot and cold.....this could be a good fit between Holiday and Berkman....I think it's a good pickup for SL
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  16. 12-22-11 07:23 PM #16
    Chimneyfish
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingJD31 View Post
    .275 41 hr 116 rbi 38 doubles 127 runs in 2006 i say thats his best year
    He had a great year in 2006. As far as his unadjusted rates go, his 2006 year was very similar to his 2011 year:

    2006: .275/.388/.594
    2011: .300/.385/.525

    When you adjust for league averages (to account for things like the pitching dominance in 2011) and ballpark factors (to account for things like AT&T Park suppressing home runs) then 2011 gets the edge over 2006 by 6 OPS+ points.

    Even still, I wouldn't have any problem conceding that 2011 was only his second best year compared to 2006. The point is that he played very well last season, which is why he was an All Star and got MVP votes.
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  17. 12-22-11 07:27 PM #17
    Chimneyfish
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingJD31 View Post
    look at all the numbers i gave you above your gonna tell me ops is more important than all of that?
    Yes, absolutely. Stats like RBI's and especially runs scored are just about meaningless because they are influenced much more by factors such as a player's position in the lineup instead of the player's actual abilities.
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  18. 12-22-11 07:27 PM #18
    warriorfan707
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    Beltran is no bum. He put on quite a show in a Giants Uniform in September.
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  19. 12-22-11 07:28 PM #19
    warriorfan707
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    Done deal. 2 years, 25 million.
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  20. 12-22-11 07:28 PM #20
    KingJD31
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    truu yeah hes a diff. player now he doesnt play the outfield like he used to, and he doesnt have the pop but he shows glimpes but he can still give you 25 double 300avg hes still and good player
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  21. 12-22-11 07:32 PM #21
    Salmon Steak
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    Berkman came back from the dead with saint louis last season, so I don't see why Beltran could not do the same. With wainwright coming back they could have another solid year.
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  22. 12-22-11 07:40 PM #22
    Chimneyfish
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    Come back from the dead? I guess being "dead" means "being traded to a baseball market that ESPN doesn't cover." We're talking about a guy coming off an All Star season. It's hardly comparable to how bad Berkman looked in New York.

    Just because people stopped seeing highlights doesn't mean he wasn't hitting great last year.
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  23. 12-22-11 07:54 PM #23
    Salmon Steak
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chimneyfish View Post
    Come back from the dead? I guess being "dead" means "being traded to a baseball market that ESPN doesn't cover." We're talking about a guy coming off an All Star season. It's hardly comparable to how bad Berkman looked in New York.

    Just because people stopped seeing highlights doesn't mean he wasn't hitting great last year.
    Other people were bashing him man, not me. You are preaching to the saved. I'm a cardinals fan... world champs!
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  24. 12-22-11 08:35 PM #24
    big joe 1212
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    He is injury prone now

    They paid too much for him

    His knee will go again
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  25. 12-23-11 05:19 AM #25
    BarkingToad
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    So this is the Cardinals better use of their money by not signing Pujols? Giving some washed up player in his mid 30's over 12 million a year. Mozeliak likes to overpay marginal players. That will be like a dream lineup with him and Holliday.
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  26. 12-23-11 06:27 AM #26
    EaglesPhan36
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    It's MLB. Everyone pays too much for everyone.
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  27. 12-23-11 07:07 AM #27
    oiler
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    never will replace pujols and hes injury prone
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  28. 12-23-11 03:27 PM #28
    warriorfan707
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    Quote Originally Posted by EaglesPhan36 View Post
    It's MLB. Everyone pays too much for everyone.
    This.

    Its all relative.
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  29. 04-21-12 11:19 PM #29
    Chimneyfish
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    Looks like I'm right on schedule for proving a point.
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  30. 04-22-12 07:32 AM #30
    jjgold
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    He got off to a good start

    Surprised me
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  31. 04-22-12 08:46 AM #31
    InTheDrink
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    just one more thread where queenjd has embarrassed herself
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