[crustyme]

crusty, seriously what's got you rock hard over kennedy? he doesn't have a chance and you arguing otherwise is getting ridiculous

are you in his family or something?

no hard on. just think he deserves it since dbacks would be nothing without him.

personally, hate the dbacks and would much rather kershaw win it over him. but he might have blown it with his last start.

[gryfyn1]

what dont you get? kennedy deserves it just as anyone else. youre the one whos saying its an insult to include him in the conversation.

No Kennedy doesn't deserve it, if your point is that he will garner votes based on a poor judgment by ignorant voters maybe you have a point, but that doesn't mean he deserves to be in the same conversation with Lee, Kershaw and Halladay.

before anyone says wins dont matter, yes they do. past 12 of 19 cy young winners led the league in wins (excluding gagne who won as a closer).

But only 3 since 2007 have led the league and in each year (Halladay in 2010, Lee in 2008, and Peavey in 2007) that player was clearly the best pitcher in his league, so apparently voters are as ignorant as you are pretending.

lee could lose his last 10 starts and phils would still win the division and secure home field. if kennedy loses 10 in a row, dbacks dont make the playoffs.

What the hell does this have to do with how the pitchers pitch during thier games?? Or are you saying that Kennedy is a better pitcher because Halladay and Hammels are better than Joe Saunders and Josh Collmenter?

[Ice House]

clayton kershaw

[stevenash]

Kennedy won't win it, but he is worth a shout.

That was my original point.

I would vote Kershaw if eligible to vote.

[Sportsbetting123]

This is going to be a very tight race. If Lee wins out, then I believe he should win it.

[stogies]

lee could lose his last 10 starts and phils would still win the division and secure home field. if kennedy loses 10 in a row, dbacks dont make the playoffs.

The award doesnt got nothing to do with a team it is for the best pitcher and thats it and Kennedy is not any where near as good a pitcher as Halladay, Lee, and Kershaw. Go to a bar and cry with your Diamondbacks friends instead of crying here at SBR.

[Ice House]

you could certainly make a case for Cliff Lee, Roy Halladay, and Kennedy, but if you ask all these pitchers they will tell you that this is a team game and they could give a fukk about an award for personal achievement .... the only hardware these players want is the world series ring

[MartinBlank]

Come on, Lee has 6 shut outs. He has 30 consecutive scoreless innings going on right now, and he had 34 back in June/July. He has won his last 7 consecutive games, and his ERA since the end of July is .37.

If he continues at this pace, the Cy Young is Lee's.

[crustyme]

No Kennedy doesn't deserve it, if your point is that he will garner votes based on a poor judgment by ignorant voters maybe you have a point, but that doesn't mean he deserves to be in the same conversation with Lee, Kershaw and Halladay.




But only 3 since 2007 have led the league and in each year (Halladay in 2010, Lee in 2008, and Peavey in 2007) that player was clearly the best pitcher in his league, so apparently voters are as ignorant as you are pretending.




What the hell does this have to do with how the pitchers pitch during thier games?? Or are you saying that Kennedy is a better pitcher because Halladay and Hammels are better than Joe Saunders and Josh Collmenter?

lets get something straight here.... you believe kennedy doesn't deserve it (some random dude on the internet) not the national media who believe he deserves it or at least should be in the conversation:

Ian Kennedy has a shot at Cy Young

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/aug...-line-20110821

Is Ian Kennedy A Viable Cy Young Candidate?




http://mlb.sbnation.com/2011/8/29/23...backs-cy-young

ESPN Cy Young Predictor

http://espn.go.com/mlb/features/cyyoung


cy young is a team award, no matter how you look at it. if halladay or lee goes 12-15 2.22 era .980 whip because phils suck and dont give them any run support would they win? probably not. no pitcher with a losing record has ever won the award (except gagne who was a closer).

and predicting how baseball writers will vote based on the past couple of winners is ridiculous. they've never been consistent with their voting criteria. one year they give it to the pitcher with the best record (zito, and the next they give it to the one with the lowest era (felix, lincecum).

but to say that ian kennedy doesn't deserve it is ignorant. he leads the league in wins, win % and is top ten in every major pitching category. if he finishes with 2 more wins than everyone else and lowers his era to 2.70-2.80, he should win.

[crustyme]

The award doesnt got nothing to do with a team it is for the best pitcher and thats it and Kennedy is not any where near as good a pitcher as Halladay, Lee, and Kershaw. Go to a bar and cry with your Diamondbacks friends instead of crying here at SBR.

so if halladay or lee go 10-15 2.22 era due to phils hitters sucking and not giving him any run support, they would still be favored to win cy young?

wow, some people are so damn ignorant.

[Glitch]

so if halladay or lee go 10-15 2.22 era due to phils hitters sucking and not giving him any run support, they would still be favored to win cy young?

wow, some people are so damn ignorant.

you are right about this part.

[will2survive]

Kennedy won't win but he's been the MVP to his team. I wish that he was considered even though he screwed my Yankees over

[crustyme]

Come on, Lee has 6 shut outs. He has 30 consecutive scoreless innings going on right now, and he had 34 back in June/July. He has won his last 7 consecutive games, and his ERA since the end of July is .37.

If he continues at this pace, the Cy Young is Lee's.

baseball writers are fickle.

halladay led the league in shutouts in 2009 with 4, willis in 2005 with 5 and didn't win.

[MartinBlank]

baseball writers are fickle.

halladay led the league in shutouts in 2009 with 4, willis in 2005 with 5 and didn't win.

That is true---but Zach Grienke had clearly better numbers than Halladay in 2009.

Grienke had a 2.16 ERA, a WHIP of 1.073, and he won 16 games for the Royals. Halladay was at 2.79 ERA, and a WHIP of 1.132.

More, Grienke had 3 shut outs himself, just one fewer than Halladay.

No one has that kind of statistical advantage over Lee this year.

As I pointed out in a previous post, Cliff Lee is doing things that haven't been done since Bob Gibson in 1968.

He has 6 shut outs and more than 200 K's----the last one to do that was Gibson when he won the CY in 1968.

Lee has 2 scoreless streaks of more than 30 innings in the same season---again, that hasn't been done since 1972 (Steve Carlton's CY year).

Lee's ERA is pretty much the statistical equivalent of Kershaw and Halladay---all three of them are in the 2.45-2.48 range. Their WHIP are also in the 1.00-1.02 range, and their win totals differ by 1-2 wins.

Lee also has 11 games of 7 or more scoreless innings---the next closes is Halladay with 5.

I would be stunned if Lee doesn't win this thing.

[stevenash]

Kennedy won't win but he's been the MVP to his team. I wish that he was considered even though he screwed my Yankees over

Kennedy didn't screw anyone over, Cashman is 100 percent to blame.
He deemed Joba and Hughes untoucables, even though Hughes is one of the biggest head cases in the game, has (as many scouts will tell you) the worst work ethics out of all the starting pitchers in the game, proved when the 25
year old when on the DL in May with a tired arm.

What healthy 25 year old gets tired arm syndrome in May if he doesn't put in the work between starts?

Hughes is not a money pitcher, never will be a money pitcher, won 18 games with smoke and mirrors, with 1532 runs a game in support.

Scouts tried to warn Cashman about Hughes, he wouldn't listen, thinks fastballs are sexy.

Scouts tried to tell Cashman, that Kennedy's career path is similar to Greg Maddux, that Kennedy is the untouchable, not Hughes.

Screwed over? Really? Kennedy never wanted to leave NY, he was traded out.

[PaperTrail07]

verlander very simple mr 9 innings

[dlunc3]

verlander very simple mr 9 innings

NL?

[MartinBlank]

verlander very simple mr 9 innings

The problem with Verlander is he plays in an entirely different league.

You see, Detroit plays in the AL.

Kershaw, Lee, Kennedy, Halladay----they all play in the NL.

[neverstoppers23]

I think Kershaw should win it all, he has pitched the best. But it most likley will go to, one of the Philly Pitchers.

[dlunc3]

Cliff Lee gets 1/2 run a game less run support

That stat is not accurate though... bc some games 10 runs are scored that skew the average..
5 of the games Hamels won, the phills gave him 14 runs, 14 runs, 9 runs, 10 runs, and 8 runs of support... his season has been all or nothing--- either a ton of run support, or almost 0 run support..

Hamels:

Took losses when he gave up 2 runs: 3 times

Took losses when giving up 3 runs: 2 times

Received a no decision when giving up 0 runs: 1 time

Received a no decision when giving up 1 run: 2 times

Received a no decision when giving up 2 runs: 2 times

Received a no decision when giving up 3 runs: 1 time


That right there is 11 games that the phills easily could have one. I would almost bet my whole roll that no other pitcher is in that territory... Kershaw is in this spot 5 times in while pitching two more games then Hamels.

Hamels has only given up over three runs 3 times all season through 27 starts!
He has only given up more then 2 runs 6 times! That is 21 games out of 27 of two runs or less! Kennedy is at 11... Kershaw is at 9...

Not to mention that he has a better WHIP then all of the others that have been mentioned in this discussion.

Not saying that Hamels should win cy young... definately should not as of now... but he definitely should be in the discussions esp if Ian Kennedy is.

[InTheDrink]

Is it too late for Merry Stras-mas to win the Cy?

0.00 era 0.40 whip

[FrozenMAN]

you kiddin me with lee LOL....trash if anyone maybe kennedy on the dbacks as without him they'd be nowhere

lee is nothing, never have been sold on him and same goes with halladay, theyre both good but not INCREDIBLE like everyone makes em out to be

[Louisvillekid1]

you kiddin me with lee LOL....trash if anyone maybe kennedy on the dbacks as without him they'd be nowhere

lee is nothing, never have been sold on him and same goes with halladay, theyre both good but not INCREDIBLE like everyone makes em out to be

hands down best two pitchers in the league

[BRAVES1985]

nLOLwest

look what kershaw is doin on a fukin brutal team like king felix last year ... get a fukin clue

[dlunc3]

you kiddin me with lee LOL....trash if anyone maybe kennedy on the dbacks as without him they'd be nowhere

lee is nothing, never have been sold on him and same goes with halladay, theyre both good but not INCREDIBLE like everyone makes em out to be

you must not watch baseball much?? cliff lee has gone 11-0 in 11 start in june, august and now september... you know how many runs he has given up total in those 11 starts??? 3 total in those 11 games combined!! you are calling that trash? are you kidding me? I may have never seen a pitcher pitch that well in my life. He is the ONLY PITCHER EVER to win pitcher of the month twice in a season.

[FrozenMAN]

hands down best two pitchers in the league

PSSSSSHHHH you and everyone else

[dlunc3]

Kershaw is a stud.... he has a great chance and it is gonna come down to the final month.... Ian Kennedy on the other hand.....

[FrozenMAN]

you must not watch baseball much?? cliff lee has gone 11-0 in 11 start in june, august and now september... you know how many runs he has given up total in those 11 starts??? 3 total in those 11 games combined!! you are calling that trash? are you kidding me? I may have never seen a pitcher pitch that well in my life. He is the ONLY PITCHER EVER to win pitcher of the month twice in a season.

yes i watch no baseball....look who this ball sucking is coming from one of those FINE CLASS PHILADELPHIANS


lee is trash and doc is beatable as well..

[dlunc3]

ball sucking? i guess stats dont matter huh? who is good then smartie?

[dwaechte]

The lack of people voting for Halladay in this thread is astounding. .2 WAR more than any other pitcher.

[MartinBlank]

I'm a Reds fan, but I love baseball. Anyone who thinks Cliff Lee is trash is a moron.

Lee has 6 shutouts, and 200ks. Only three other pitchers in the history of the game have done that in the last 118 years. He has 2 streaks of 30 and 34 scoreless innings---and the only other time that happened in baseball was Steve Carlton in 1972.

Is Lee the greatest of All-Time? Of course not.

But he is doing shit that has been done by very very very few, and right now he is virtually unhittable. Nearly every GM in baseball would lop off a nut to have Halladay and Lee down this stretch run.

[FrozenMAN]

lee is nothing.. i'm sticking hard and fast to that..halladay is good but don't see how he is SO AMAZING...he's VERY hittable just need ot be patient

and a GREAT pitcher is my boy JOSH JOHNSON WHEN HEALTHY, he's got nasty shit and now that they have foud the rproblem with the strain on shoulder from his slouching and bad posture, NEXT YEAR MY FISH ARE GONNA RUN THE TABLE ON THE EAST!

and best pitcher in baseball is verlanderm HANDS FUCKIN DOWN!

[stevenash]

Pop quiz.

What pitcher mentioned in this thread has given up 3 earned runs or less in his last 11 starts?

There is only one, name him?

[Monchito]

DOC MORE GAMES COMPLETE !!!
KERSHAW MORE STRIKE OUT`S
LEE LESS RUN PER INNING !!!
WHAT U THINK ABOUT IAN KENNEDY ! NICE PITCHER NICE NUMBERS

[dlunc3]

DOC MORE GAMES COMPLETE !!!
KERSHAW MORE STRIKE OUT`S
LEE LESS RUN PER INNING !!!
WHAT U THINK ABOUT IAN KENNEDY ! NICE PITCHER NICE NUMBERS

nice #5 for this phills staff